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 Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:55 pm
All the ladies love me. cool
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Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:58 pm
Ashram McDuck I don't say much, but I have the annoying habit of being (some would say) overly-nosey. When something comes up that's out of place, chances are I'm going to start sniffing around. I was in the dark about all of this, so I was more than curious to find out what all the ruckus was. Concerning all the secrecy - I've always felt that someone feels a need to hide something, it's usually because they're afraid or because they're ashamed. Neither option generally leads to happy results once that which was hidden is brought to light. While I have idea what was said in this secret guild, I do know that things said behind closed doors almost always makes them more brutal in tone than was intended. Intentions are meaningless when things are hidden. Concerning Spider - Frankly I have no idea how much any of you guys (nix a few) know about the relations between Spider and I. Now, if you did know, I'm just a little confused as to why you didn't come to me about your relations with him. I'll admit I'm one of the more quiet ones of the bunch, but its still a question I've been wondering a little about. (As I can kind of understand not wanting to take the matter to Stream, even though I don't agree with the logic behind it) Actually, I gathered you knew each other from a couple comments made in the past few weeks. Honestly, I think the intention was always to go to -Spider- and let anyone else say what they would, in hopefully an open environment that people felt comfortable in. Like I've said before, this wasn't like a several month long underground secret, just something that happened a few days before it all blew up while trying to figure out the best option.
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:24 am
Man...I want the underwear things in the DC. But all I ever get is gold, tokens, more gold, sometimes grade F fish bait, tickets, even more gold, flowers, and bugs. emo
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:39 am
 I....I just.... It's one of the most scary things I've seen in my life. emo Someone hold me!
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:26 am
I don't appreciate when someone hurts another by being a sarcastic a*****e. If it wasn't meant as such, then I believe an apology is owed to someone and you know who. I'm not naming names, if one of the parties says something about it here, then it'll be known then. Bart isn't pleased, especially since this was to a friend. If you didn't want this out, friend, I'm sorry..but I had to say something but I took the more mature route of what I wanted to say (some of which I told you). I'm trying to be level headed, trying to be understanding... With things suddenly going good with the talks, we don't need any more drama! Suck it up and act like your age (whatever it may be). We're trying to be adults here! Don't ruin it for the guild, seriously.
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:55 am
Shoujo Phoenix Doesn't everyone have secrets they only choose to reveal to a few people? Is that unfair? When it concerns someone you both know and have not taken the time to express your concerns to that person first, I would say so. What good does it do when people tell the problem(s) they have with someone to other people when they could be telling it to the person they have a problem with? If you have a problem with someone, take it to their door first.
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:10 am
RaeRae Rave Ashram McDuck Intentions are meaningless when things are hidden.
There's a difference when something is done out of spite, anger, and bitterness, than when it's done because it's believed to be the best option.Getting a little preachy here, but ... " The road to Hell is paved with good intentions." Saying something like, "It wasn't my intention to hurt you." is almost like saying, "Don't judge the results of my actions. Judge my intentions." I don't know about you, but I don't know many people who are willing to take that course of action. Quote: Something comfortable and safe when you're scared to go and say something publicly. In the relations between people, there are no safety nets. Harsher still, seeking safety is seeking escape instead of seeking resolve.
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:38 am
Even after a week of this nonsense, Pi is the only one willing to actually step up and say what it was all about, and well after she said all that to me in private; or at least the gist of it. So kudos, and thank you for the compliment.
Keys, the intent was never to bring it to me, that's been made pretty clear. The intent was to broach it to some larger scale, either a relatively open chat that I wouldn't be privy to or to the guild at large.
I know who's really remorseful- that's using a strong word for something as petty as this- and who isn't because those who are have already approached me in private. Now that I know precisely what caused the blow up and the truth is out in the open, I want to state that this is not a guild issue, this is an issue between myself and other members of the guild and it should have been treated as such from the beginning.
Rachel, I really don't give a s**t what you think about my tattoo and it has precisely zero bearing on any of this. Also, in a guild with personalities that include "The Gator," the "Prophet," and "The Ruiner of Economies," you'd recognize self deprecating sarcasm when you saw it. I don't buy into any more of my hype than Streamjumper does his. I figured that the self deprecating nature of my username was pretty clear, but then I guess I can't expect everyone to be well versed in Great Teacher Onizuka.
As far as I'm concerned the issue is dead. If anyone actually wants to pursue any of the underlying issues, well the available options for doing so have been laid out in full over the last week.
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:18 am
Ashram McDuck RaeRae Rave Ashram McDuck Intentions are meaningless when things are hidden.
There's a difference when something is done out of spite, anger, and bitterness, than when it's done because it's believed to be the best option.Getting a little preachy here, but ... " The road to Hell is paved with good intentions." Saying something like, "It wasn't my intention to hurt you." is almost like saying, "Don't judge the results of my actions. Judge my intentions." I don't know about you, but I don't know many people who are willing to take that course of action. Quote: Something comfortable and safe when you're scared to go and say something publicly. In the relations between people, there are no safety nets. Harsher still, seeking safety is seeking escape instead of seeking resolve.
Regardless, I guess you guys are just going to see it how you're going to, but at the very least, I want it made clear why the guild was created.
It's up to everyone else how they view "good intentions", I guess. I've said before I'm not going to say who's right or who's wrong, but it just seems that there was so much miscommunication, and it's not fair that people say it was created just because of animousity towards one person when it wasn't. That's adding another level to it.
I'm not going to argue this to the death- I've said my part, and going further now for me would be taking sides on a subject where I still believe everyone has a right to be upset.
@Spider: Wow. After the things I've talked about with you and Stream, that really hurt. I was terrified to tell Stream I was part of that guild, and I did it anyway. I was also terrified to apologize to you, but I did it because I've considered you a friend. I've apologized to both of you, as well as said what I could without outing anyone in the guild or the things they've said, which it's not my place to do. I guess stepping up in that sense just doesn't even count?
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:42 am
Great Tattooist Oni Rachel, I really don't give a s**t what you think about my tattoo and it has precisely zero bearing on any of this.
If you guys really don't want to be more open with each other, like I told someone else apart of the guild, then ban me. I'm NOT going to hide this s**t anymore.
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:14 am
Great Tattooist Oni Even after a week of this nonsense, Pi is the only one willing to actually step up and say what it was all about, and well after she said all that to me in private; or at least the gist of it. So kudos, and thank you for the compliment.
Keys, the intent was never to bring it to me, that's been made pretty clear. The intent was to broach it to some larger scale, either a relatively open chat that I wouldn't be privy to or to the guild at large.
I know who's really remorseful- that's using a strong word for something as petty as this- and who isn't because those who are have already approached me in private. Now that I know precisely what caused the blow up and the truth is out in the open, I want to state that this is not a guild issue, this is an issue between myself and other members of the guild and it should have been treated as such from the beginning.
Rachel, I really don't give a s**t what you think about my tattoo and it has precisely zero bearing on any of this. Also, in a guild with personalities that include "The Gator," the "Prophet," and "The Ruiner of Economies," you'd recognize self deprecating sarcasm when you saw it. I don't buy into any more of my hype than Streamjumper does his. I figured that the self deprecating nature of my username was pretty clear, but then I guess I can't expect everyone to be well versed in Great Teacher Onizuka.
As far as I'm concerned the issue is dead. If anyone actually wants to pursue any of the underlying issues, well the available options for doing so have been laid out in full over the last week. Excuse me, but first of all, get your facts straight. Bart said that, not me (as Bart just mentioned). So before you go saying things about me in a negative way (by the way, during all of this I've been trying to be really nice to not offend anyone, unlike you) make sure you know who and what you're talking about. Also, the other guild was not all about you, despite what you may like to think. If you really want to know, ask the bloody creator, but she's already posted why she created it. And just because I never went to you does not mean I'm not remorseful. I could say the same thing, and it still wouldn't mean anything. So just because someone went to you and I didn't doesn't mean I spent hours crying over this like many of the other people here?? Nothing gives you the right to say this. I want this to end like everyone else here, so I've posted how I've felt without spite in hopes to get things resolved, unlike you.
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:25 am
iBarty Great Tattooist Oni Rachel, I really don't give a s**t what you think about my tattoo and it has precisely zero bearing on any of this.
If you guys really don't want to be more open with each other, like I told someone else apart of the guild, then ban me. I'm NOT going to hide this s**t anymore.
Bart, personal matters like this do belong in PM's. I to have things I want to share with Spider, but they don't need to be brought out to the table like this. I, under no circumstances, want you to hold your emotions in. But, we also need to be civil.
I hope you understand.
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:59 am
Ashram McDuck Shoujo Phoenix Doesn't everyone have secrets they only choose to reveal to a few people? Is that unfair? When it concerns someone you both know and have not taken the time to express your concerns to that person first, I would say so. What good does it do when people tell the problem(s) they have with someone to other people when they could be telling it to the person they have a problem with? If you have a problem with someone, take it to their door first.
For instance, my aunt recently got mad at me when I admitted that I did not do so well after telling me that failure is ok. I told this whole guild about that. I told my girlfriend and some other people as well (to check if my reaction was reasonable or not). Is it unfair that I did not wish to pursue the issue with my aunt knowing her personality and knowing how she would likely react? I would like to think not. Sometimes, you can even work through your issues with said individual without approaching them; especially if they are prone to being volatile and overly-defensive and you don't wish to subject yourself to that or deal with it.
In high school, I had a big issue with one of the band moms. We all talked about it too without the inclusion of her. Why? Well, she was about 30 years older and would dismiss it on the grounds of her age and that we were too young or whatever. Kinda the "I'm right, you're wrong" attitude. Did I eventually approach her? Hell yes. She said "I'm sick of these kids" and I darted back at her with a "well, we're sick of you too."
What happened?
She came up to me and basically yelled at me, cursed at me, and had to be dragged away from me by her son and a friend of her's to prevent her from taking a swing at me. What did I do? I just stood there and let her yell and look insane. Was it a good move to say something to her to indicate an issue? Not really. Was anything gained? Not really.
I don't think a blanket statement can cover all scenarios and varies case to case depending on the personalities that are involved.
Did anyone come to me about their issues with the guild I created? No. Did they talk behind my back making assumptions about it and me to other people about it as opposed to bringing the issue to me? Not that I've seen. I'm not the only one who did "wrong" in the instance of concealing certain things. And I'm not going to buy into any crap about the 'you started it' bs if it does come up because it takes two to tango.
Different opinions about it, different thoughts, different approaches. Whatever works for you is fine, but by that same token it's not fair to expect people to be the same or think the same way or act the same way. Not everyone is the same, I guess.
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:00 pm
I think there has been some big confusion about the second guild. And I may have contributed to that confusion.
When Shouj came to me about the guild, she told me it was a guild for others to openly discuss issues without being attacked. This of course, was stemmed from the fact that many of members had a problem with Spider.
The first few posts I saw in the guild were full of anger, and were very rude. As the anger dissolved, it subjected changed to how to approach Spider. Then comes the shoulda, woulda, couldas.
Shouj came forth and did something she thought would be good for her friends. A few people were ready to just LEAVE the guild. She stepped forward and just created a safe haven for these people to talk. Others like myself joined to talk to those people too. She cannot be blamed for what these people did, or said.
But of course intentions are just that. Many of us have stepped forward and admitted to taking the wrong course of actions. And we have apologized.
I honestly do not think Shouj did anything wrong by creating the guild. I don't think the guild is the problem here. Anything that was said in the guild could have easily of been an AIM chat. Or a phone call. If you want to place blame, look to the members.
I was a member. And I have apologized and I have accepted my actions. And so has Shoujo.
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:15 pm
Great Tattooist Oni Even after a week of this nonsense, Pi is the only one willing to actually step up and say what it was all about, and well after she said all that to me in private; or at least the gist of it. So kudos, and thank you for the compliment.
Keys, the intent was never to bring it to me, that's been made pretty clear. The intent was to broach it to some larger scale, either a relatively open chat that I wouldn't be privy to or to the guild at large.
I know who's really remorseful- that's using a strong word for something as petty as this- and who isn't because those who are have already approached me in private. Now that I know precisely what caused the blow up and the truth is out in the open, I want to state that this is not a guild issue, this is an issue between myself and other members of the guild and it should have been treated as such from the beginning.
Rachel, I really don't give a s**t what you think about my tattoo and it has precisely zero bearing on any of this. Also, in a guild with personalities that include "The Gator," the "Prophet," and "The Ruiner of Economies," you'd recognize self deprecating sarcasm when you saw it. I don't buy into any more of my hype than Streamjumper does his. I figured that the self deprecating nature of my username was pretty clear, but then I guess I can't expect everyone to be well versed in Great Teacher Onizuka.
As far as I'm concerned the issue is dead. If anyone actually wants to pursue any of the underlying issues, well the available options for doing so have been laid out in full over the last week. Well, my understanding was that the larger chat would of course include you. It may be that I'm the only one who thinks that, but I would like to have faith in everyone. I know it's gotta hurt right now and it's easy to view everyone in a negative light when it does, but I don't think that's going to solve anything. Are you certain that a mass of people coming to you in private wouldn't have felt like 'ganging up?' Feel free to move this to PM if you want to, but even if it wasn't a guild issue before, I think as a whole (not just including the part about you) it is enough of one now as people are going to be cautious and curious around 'who is getting along and not with who' and I've seen that lead to other unfortunate incidents.
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