|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:35 pm
Can a person exist without a soul?
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:47 pm
zz1000zz tubbyflip psalm 139: 13 -16 for you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mothers womb i praise you i am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, i know that full well my frame was NOT HIDDEN from you when i was made in the secret place when i was woven together in the dephths of the earth your eyes saw my unformed body all the days ordained me were written in your book befor one of them came to be!! that clerly states that God is pro-life! and that we are alive and he can see us and cares obout us so that means you would be sheading blood!!! How does that clearly state God is pro-life? God is omnipotent, therefore he knew everybody before their parents were born. God IS life. If he wasn't pro-life, why the heck would he have created the world and everything in it??? rolleyes
And also, how can you tell us what God does and what God does not encourage if you yourself have not accepted Him into your life? Trying to Interpret what you do not know is like planting an apple seed and getting a weed. It doesn't work.
The point is, if you keep arguing with us without even considering what we have to say then why do you insist? It is like picking a fight just because you can. When one starts up a subject of debate usually they want to find different views and maybe accept them; not fight ruthlessly without consideration. They have given you all the reasoning you need...go back and read them over if still you wonder and protest!
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:05 pm
stone_angel4 zz1000zz tubbyflip psalm 139: 13 -16 for you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mothers womb i praise you i am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, i know that full well my frame was NOT HIDDEN from you when i was made in the secret place when i was woven together in the dephths of the earth your eyes saw my unformed body all the days ordained me were written in your book befor one of them came to be!! that clerly states that God is pro-life! and that we are alive and he can see us and cares obout us so that means you would be sheading blood!!! How does that clearly state God is pro-life? God is omnipotent, therefore he knew everybody before their parents were born. God IS life. If he wasn't pro-life, why the heck would he have created the world and everything in it??? rolleyes
And also, how can you tell us what God does and what God does not encourage if you yourself have not accepted Him into your life? Trying to Interpret what you do not know is like planting an apple seed and getting a weed. It doesn't work.
The point is, if you keep arguing with us without even considering what we have to say then why do you insist? It is like picking a fight just because you can. When one starts up a subject of debate usually they want to find different views and maybe accept them; not fight ruthlessly without consideration. They have given you all the reasoning you need...go back and read them over if still you wonder and protest! ... When did they say they didn't accept God into their lives? Perhaps you also should pay closer attention to your opponants' posts.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:15 pm
You're right, I shouldn't assume. But I guess I came to the conclusion that she didn't when there were about 11 pages of denying Scripture...the very voice of God. *shrug* When people accept Christ into their hearts, the voice of another Christian is like a brother encouraging you, not beating you up.
still...you can't start a debate discussion, read what people have to say about it and then laugh, shake your head, and say "you're wrong! Try again!" until the cows come home...I mean, you can, but if that is the case then why did the person start it to begin with?
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:08 pm
Baptist Holman zz1000zz Quote: If a fetus has a soul, abortion is wrong. If a fetus has no soul, abortion is not wrong. Simple really. It all comes down to the answer to a single question. Can you *prove* the Bible says a fetus has a soul? If we cannot prove with certainty the Bible says a fetus has a soul, there is no basis to say abortions are sinful. I would be careful here if I were you. Just because the text doesn't mention about a growing child in the womb having a soul does not make abortion alright. So far, both theories barley have any support so, its neutral. I agree. Neither position can be proven through the Bible, and there exists no other method of knowing God's will. Therefore, it is (at best) irresponsible to condemn abortion as a sin. In the same manner, it would be wrong to say God supports abortion, as the Bible does not say that either.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:10 pm
that_fairy Can a person exist without a soul? My understanding of the Bible says that a person cannot. A physical body is merely the shell which hosts the soul, and ultimately it is only the soul that is important. A "person" without a soul would be no different than any simple animal.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:19 pm
stone_angel4 zz1000zz tubbyflip psalm 139: 13 -16 for you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mothers womb i praise you i am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, i know that full well my frame was NOT HIDDEN from you when i was made in the secret place when i was woven together in the dephths of the earth your eyes saw my unformed body all the days ordained me were written in your book befor one of them came to be!! that clerly states that God is pro-life! and that we are alive and he can see us and cares obout us so that means you would be sheading blood!!! How does that clearly state God is pro-life? God is omnipotent, therefore he knew everybody before their parents were born. God IS life. If he wasn't pro-life, why the heck would he have created the world and everything in it??? rolleyes If God was pro-life, why did he create death? Who knows? I certainly do not. I do not claim to know why God does what he does. I do know that God has killed human beings, so it follows destroying life is not always contrary to his nature. Quote: And also, how can you tell us what God does and what God does not encourage if you yourself have not accepted Him into your life? Trying to Interpret what you do not know is like planting an apple seed and getting a weed. It doesn't work. So a non-believer could never understand God's commands? Only people like you can, because you were granted some divine insight? Yeah, right. Anybody can read the Bible. Anybody can understand the Bible. The only thing seperating believers and non-believers is that believers have accepted God as their savior. Quote: The point is, if you keep arguing with us without even considering what we have to say then why do you insist? It is like picking a fight just because you can. When one starts up a subject of debate usually they want to find different views and maybe accept them; not fight ruthlessly without consideration. They have given you all the reasoning you need...go back and read them over if still you wonder and protest! When have i argued with anybody "without even considering what we have to say"? Where did "they" give me "all the reasoning" i need? Where did somebody make a point i did not refute? Tell me this, and i will agree with you. But do not tell me i am wrong without showing me *why* i am wrong. And when it comes to someone not listening to the other side, try looking at yourself. You assume i am not a Christian because i disagree with you. I never assumed you were not a Christian because you disagreed with me.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:28 pm
stone_angel4 You're right, I shouldn't assume. But I guess I came to the conclusion that she didn't when there were about 11 pages of denying Scripture...the very voice of God. *shrug* When people accept Christ into their hearts, the voice of another Christian is like a brother encouraging you, not beating you up. Show me one time i denied the Bible. Nobody in this discussion, until you, has claimed this. Even the people who disagreed with me, the people who posted verses trying to show me wrong did not say this about me. You have now said i am not a Christian. You have now nearly said i am a heretic. You have come here, insulted me in possibly the worst way possible. Why? If you disagree with me, why do you not tell me why i am wrong? How dare you spit in my face? You have not even said what i stated which is wrong, and yet you claim i refuse to listen to others. What have i done to deserve this, and what kind of "Christian" are you to do it? Quote: still...you can't start a debate discussion, read what people have to say about it and then laugh, shake your head, and say "you're wrong! Try again!" until the cows come home...I mean, you can, but if that is the case then why did the person start it to begin with? But apparently it is okay to come into a discussion and do exactly that. I try not to insult people, but you are despicable.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:41 pm
You know, i made this topic because i think many Christians are mistaken about certain beliefs. I made this topic because i hoped to discuss these beliefs, so that both myself and others could better understand the issues, and better understand what is right. I made this topic so that people could gain a better understanding of God.
The responses i have gotten in this topic rarely seemed to care about any of this. While some people have stated reasons why i was wrong, it seems few listened to my responses. Rather than a forum for discussion, this has seemed to be little more than a forum for insults. Instead of having my position questioned by thoughtful people, it seems i have managed to attract little more than ad hominem attacks. This bothers me. While i would have no problem finding out my position is incorrect, nothing in this topic has made me think it might be. That the primary response seems to be one of close-mindedness implies i am correct.
In any event, i am tired of mindless insults. From now on, i will not respond to anyone who uses ad hominem attacks. I will gladly continue to respond to anyone who wants to discuss the topic, but i will not abide any insults, whether stated or implied. In this vein, i ask that anyone who wishes to insult me, instead of hold a discussion, do so through Private Messages.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:30 am
*sigh* zz1000zz, You use much more logic in other threads. I wonder why you set up this thread in the first place? It feels to me like you set up this thread merely to be contrary, rather than to actually debate. If you did set up this thread to actually debate, it seems to me, and it appears to seem to many other members, that you are merely baiting them. I'm not saying that you *are* baiting them: I know nothing about you except for your posts. You could be a 91 year old wheel-chair bound man or a high-school cheerleader. All I know is that you don't seem to be *debating*; it does seem that you are merely re-stating your point of view without listening to anyone else's. I like debates- actual debates. The entire reason I come to this guild is *to debate*, to strengthen myself as a Christian. As a result, I try to come to debates open-minded, being willing to change my opinions. I could be wrong, however, it does *feel* like you are not here open-minded. Now, saying that you are not Christian is a poor way to point that out- to be sure, but the last person that did so admitted that was a poor way of stating her point, and explained why she did so in a civil manner. If you expect her to flat-out apologize, say so. It is unfair to hold grudges because someone got frustrated and phrased something incorrectly; how many times have you yourself done that? There will always be some people on this guild that are closed-minded and ignorant- its a large guild, and there's such a thing as free speech, which sadly we cannot restrict to the mentally capable. (that was a joke, btw. I fully believe that even imbeciles should be able to say whatever they want. I just wish they wouldn't.) Expect a few of those, but don't just back out of a discussion because you feel insulted. I, at least, will be continuing to post on this discussion until it comes to a halt of its own accord. smile I've been having fun.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:37 am
zz1000zz that_fairy Can a person exist without a soul? My understanding of the Bible says that a person cannot. A physical body is merely the shell which hosts the soul, and ultimately it is only the soul that is important. A "person" without a soul would be no different than any simple animal. My personal theory is that since, when your soul leaves your body when you die, without a soul you are dead. Your brain would stop working, they'd have to put you on life-support 'cuz you're not really alive. So, if we applied that theory for adults to people that haven't been born yet, then a fetus that is 'alive', that has a working brain and body, would also have a soul. And before you say that pregnancy is a form of life support: there have been dead fetuses, that died even inside the mother. So obviously its not merely a way of keeping an empty shell from decomposing. Also, people need food, water, a certain amount of air pressure or they'll die too. Saying to a person on a spaceship that that's merely a form of 'life support' would be silly; it merely provides the basics that they need at that time of their life.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:43 am
Here's a situation: There is a gun. You're not sure if it has any bullets in it or not; you don't think it does, but you can't take it apart and look. Would you shoot anybody with the gun? Would you aim it at anybody and pull the trigger?
I think of abortion the same way. There's no way for me to know for sure what God wants of me all the time. But, you know, he gave me a brain to think with. So I think, I really don't know if it is wrong. But the *potential* for it to be a terrible thing has to be weighed against the potential for it being a valid life-choice. I have to weigh one against the other. Now I'm not worried about going to hell for anything I do: I'm a Christian, I'm going to heaven. But I would feel terrible if I went to heaven and found out that I had done something that turned out to be terrible.
Because I don't know, I won't do it. But I cannot condemn someone else who does, because I just don't know.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:11 pm
zz1000zz You know, i made this topic because i think many Christians are mistaken about certain beliefs. I made this topic because i hoped to discuss these beliefs, so that both myself and others could better understand the issues, and better understand what is right. I made this topic so that people could gain a better understanding of God. The responses i have gotten in this topic rarely seemed to care about any of this. While some people have stated reasons why i was wrong, it seems few listened to my responses. Rather than a forum for discussion, this has seemed to be little more than a forum for insults. Instead of having my position questioned by thoughtful people, it seems i have managed to attract little more than ad hominem attacks. This bothers me. While i would have no problem finding out my position is incorrect, nothing in this topic has made me think it might be. That the primary response seems to be one of close-mindedness implies i am correct. In any event, i am tired of mindless insults. From now on, i will not respond to anyone who uses ad hominem attacks. I will gladly continue to respond to anyone who wants to discuss the topic, but i will not abide any insults, whether stated or implied. In this vein, i ask that anyone who wishes to insult me, instead of hold a discussion, do so through Private Messages. We have given proof, not wanting to listen is something we can't control. In any event, you are beaten whether you like it or not. You apparently cannot, or will not, I honestly haven't decided, give any proof to support any claim you made, you simply respond that you don't have to prove a so-called "negative." Negative or not, your claim is that fetuses do not have souls. Where's proof? As I said before, I can simply not say that half of the world is red-skinned without proof. Just as you can simply not say that because I think fetuses don't have souls, they don't. We have shown you, that since God knew us before we were born, implying that we knew him as well, he knew us during a non-physical state. As such, he must have known us in a state between heaven and hell, not nonexistence, which would imply a spiritual state, or soul. If we were nonexistent, then he could never have known us, because he wouldn't have thought of us yet, or made us, and we would not have souls. Your argument, as unorganized as it is, is a logical fallacy. If this upsets you, I'm sorry, I'm not trying to insult you in any way.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:54 pm
I have looked at all the Biblical proof given here and i agree that the things u say are not sins are most definately sins.
But first you have to ask your self this.
Does it sound right to have sex with many partners at once? doesnt STD's spread through that?
does ripping an unborn baby to shreads with a suction tube filled with swirling blades sound a little bit homicidal? or even humane?
Does it look at all natural for men to be kissing and touching each other?
and if the world only had sex with one person, that person being there wife or husband, would there be an aids outbreak across the world?
You can disagree with the Bible as much as you like but Dont tell people there wrong when they have quoted it and showed you what the bible has said.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:03 pm
zz1000zz stone_angel4 zz1000zz tubbyflip psalm 139: 13 -16 for you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mothers womb i praise you i am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, i know that full well my frame was NOT HIDDEN from you when i was made in the secret place when i was woven together in the dephths of the earth your eyes saw my unformed body all the days ordained me were written in your book befor one of them came to be!! that clerly states that God is pro-life! and that we are alive and he can see us and cares obout us so that means you would be sheading blood!!! How does that clearly state God is pro-life? God is omnipotent, therefore he knew everybody before their parents were born. God IS life. If he wasn't pro-life, why the heck would he have created the world and everything in it??? rolleyes If God was pro-life, why did he create death? Who knows? I certainly do not. I do not claim to know why God does what he does. I do know that God has killed human beings, so it follows destroying life is not always contrary to his nature. For your information, God did not create death. That can be soley blamed on Adam and Eve.
Because of their disobedience of eating from the tree knowledge, God banned them out of the garden. Inside of that garden, amongst all of the many foods he provided for them to eat, the was the Fruit of Life. The Fruit of Life prevented Adam and Eve from dying as long as they ate it. When they were kicked out of the garden, they couldn't eat it anymore. Hence, them and eventually all of their offspring (us) aging and dying. But, then again, I'm positive that was all part of God's plan.
God is most certainly pro-life.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|