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darkphoenix1247 Vice Captain
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 Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 10:56 am
Silverah My aunt, a very out the lesbian, refuses to go near my synogogue without being dragged because she and her son have been treated very rudely. Do I think that not liking someone's sexual preference is a good excuse to be an a** to them? No! "Oh! She's a lesbian! She doesn't have feelings, so we can say whatever mean things we want to her!" God forbid there is ever an excuse to act like that. I think that, yes, you should count two homosexuals as a "couple" and them and their kids as a "family". Because, even if it isn't the textbook definition of either, its how they define themselves, and how they hope other people see them. Homosexuals are, above all, people. and you should define them by their character and moral fiber, not what they do in bed. well said 3nodding I have a good gay friend, so I guess I'm a little biased, though. However, it does make me a little uncomfortable to think of a guy couple adopting children. I don't mean for this to offend anybody, and I'm sorry if it does, but it just strikes me as a tad.....queer? sweatdrop
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Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 12:48 pm
To the best of my knowledge...the torah doesnt say anything about lesbian confused
I may be wrong, but all I know is the "man laying down with man" law... sweatdrop
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Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 1:54 pm
Zapper13 My cantor in my old temple was gay. No one cared. He was one of the greatest men I ever knew too. The thing about it is, even though he was gay he respected G-d's Covenant with us. He taught not only the choir class that I was in, but the whole temple about not only music, but wisdom from the holy book. I mean, without him I never would have been able to successfully read my Torah portion at my Bar Mitzvah. True, he won't have his own children, but the congregation is his child. He cares for it as if it was his own flesh and blood. such poeple are contradictions. that's not to say they aren't respectable. i'm sure he is. but he shouldn't be a role model. in fact, the gemara gives an example of someone very similar. a great rabbi, around the time of rabbi akiva (anyone called a rabbi then, if not anyone stam (hmm, 15) was greater than anyone today), who would teach torah, but he himself was tzeduki (heretic, specifically rejecting the talmud). and he was very respected, even though what he did was wrong. but it's still wrong.
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Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 1:55 pm
Silverah Homosexuals are, above all, people. and you should define them by their character and moral fiber, not what they do in bed. the problem is when moral fiber includes what they do in bed sweatdrop
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Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 1:57 pm
Donovinhs Knight To the best of my knowledge...the torah doesnt say anything about lesbian confused I may be wrong, but all I know is the "man laying down with man" law... sweatdrop this is why one must learn torah in it's original, unadulterated form. it's impossible not to lose almost everything in translation. so, yes, it does include lesbianism. i believe i posted an explaination on page 8, or maybe 9, of this thread.
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Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 1:58 pm
darkphoenix1247 Silverah My aunt, a very out the lesbian, refuses to go near my synogogue without being dragged because she and her son have been treated very rudely. Do I think that not liking someone's sexual preference is a good excuse to be an a** to them? No! "Oh! She's a lesbian! She doesn't have feelings, so we can say whatever mean things we want to her!" God forbid there is ever an excuse to act like that. I think that, yes, you should count two homosexuals as a "couple" and them and their kids as a "family". Because, even if it isn't the textbook definition of either, its how they define themselves, and how they hope other people see them. Homosexuals are, above all, people. and you should define them by their character and moral fiber, not what they do in bed. well said 3nodding I have a good gay friend, so I guess I'm a little biased, though. However, it does make me a little uncomfortable to think of a guy couple adopting children. I don't mean for this to offend anybody, and I'm sorry if it does, but it just strikes me as a tad.....queer? sweatdrop not at all. it's perfectly logical.
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Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 2:01 pm
ZonkotheSane Donovinhs Knight To the best of my knowledge...the torah doesnt say anything about lesbian confused I may be wrong, but all I know is the "man laying down with man" law... sweatdrop this is why one must learn torah in it's original, unadulterated form. it's impossible not to lose almost everything in translation. so, yes, it does include lesbianism. i believe i posted an explaination on page 8, or maybe 9, of this thread. I read it, and I find the explanation you provided just a way to use it to justify your opinion on it. 3nodding
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Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 2:15 pm
Donovinhs Knight ZonkotheSane Donovinhs Knight To the best of my knowledge...the torah doesnt say anything about lesbian confused I may be wrong, but all I know is the "man laying down with man" law... sweatdrop this is why one must learn torah in it's original, unadulterated form. it's impossible not to lose almost everything in translation. so, yes, it does include lesbianism. i believe i posted an explaination on page 8, or maybe 9, of this thread. I read it, and I find the explanation you provided just a way to use it to justify your opinion on it. 3nodding of course. after all, what else are you supposed to use proof for?
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Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 2:21 pm
ZonkotheSane Donovinhs Knight ZonkotheSane Donovinhs Knight To the best of my knowledge...the torah doesnt say anything about lesbian confused I may be wrong, but all I know is the "man laying down with man" law... sweatdrop this is why one must learn torah in it's original, unadulterated form. it's impossible not to lose almost everything in translation. so, yes, it does include lesbianism. i believe i posted an explaination on page 8, or maybe 9, of this thread. I read it, and I find the explanation you provided just a way to use it to justify your opinion on it. 3nodding of course. after all, what else are you supposed to use proof for? What I meant was that I dont see the verse saying that, I see it as it actually says and Im also saying that your going beyond what it says to justify your opinion
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Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 2:28 pm
Donovinhs Knight ZonkotheSane Donovinhs Knight ZonkotheSane Donovinhs Knight To the best of my knowledge...the torah doesnt say anything about lesbian confused I may be wrong, but all I know is the "man laying down with man" law... sweatdrop this is why one must learn torah in it's original, unadulterated form. it's impossible not to lose almost everything in translation. so, yes, it does include lesbianism. i believe i posted an explaination on page 8, or maybe 9, of this thread. I read it, and I find the explanation you provided just a way to use it to justify your opinion on it. 3nodding of course. after all, what else are you supposed to use proof for? What I meant was that I dont see the verse saying that, I see it as it actually says and Im also saying that your going beyond what it says to justify your opinion you see it in english. that's not the language it was written in. like i said, it's impossible not to lose almost everything in translation. the two languages are just that different. when you learn hebrew, torah, and objectivity, you can argue, and you might win.
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Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 8:05 pm
darkphoenix1247 well said 3nodding I have a good gay friend, so I guess I'm a little biased, though. However, it does make me a little uncomfortable to think of a guy couple adopting children. I don't mean for this to offend anybody, and I'm sorry if it does, but it just strikes me as a tad.....queer? sweatdrop Actually, this is kinda OT, but I read a buch of studies for sociology on gay couples raising kids. Most of the evidence is anecdotal, but the sociologist spent a lot of time with the families. The oldest kids at the end of the study were around six-years-old. They ended up pretty normal, and relatively free of strict gender norms. (as-in, they didn't consider house-work to be a 'woman's job' and such.) Also, not all were adopted. Some were fathered or borne by a close family friend, so the third person had a hand in the child's life. That means three sets of grandparents, and three main caretakers. Then again, the study was also done in Britain sweatdrop .. I think they're a tad more permissive in Europe than here.
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Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 12:21 am
I have to agree with zonko on the transelation thing... The two languages are quite different, so transelations bring up many missinterpretations.
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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:25 pm
I don't think any religion should ban people from their practice for loving one of the same gender.
The Torah says a lot of things, mind you.
But would God enjoy it knowing that people are banning others from appreciating His work on humanity?
We are all same.
My teacher and Rabbi taught us at Hebrew School that God looks at us all the same.
No one is better than another.
And shouldn't we practice God's doing?
If anyone cares to know, I'm a lesbian, also.
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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:33 pm
Moocat I don't think any religion should ban people from their practice for loving one of the same gender. The Torah says a lot of things, mind you. But would God enjoy it knowing that people are banning others from appreciating His work on humanity? We are all same. My teacher and Rabbi taught us at Hebrew School that God looks at us all the same. No one is better than another. And shouldn't we practice God's doing? If anyone cares to know, I'm a lesbian, also. ...
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Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:26 pm
ZonkotheSane Moocat I don't think any religion should ban people from their practice for loving one of the same gender. The Torah says a lot of things, mind you. But would God enjoy it knowing that people are banning others from appreciating His work on humanity? We are all same. My teacher and Rabbi taught us at Hebrew School that God looks at us all the same. No one is better than another. And shouldn't we practice God's doing? If anyone cares to know, I'm a lesbian, also. ... Do you have nothing to say about my opinion?
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