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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:37 am
Seeing as this thread hasn't been touche in a span of three months (or more), I'm going to bring in an argument.
I was looking through reviews of my new fic (read?) and I came across one that I'd never thought I'd cross. I mean, it's bad enoug if your writing is criticized, but what the hell was an Anti-SasuSaku-er doing in in the SasuSaku section!?
I was pissed, but I did reply to the review as politely as I could. I bolded out the things I'm pissed at.Reviewer Okay, went to your profile first to check on a few things. All I've got to say is this: *cries* NO! GOD NO! Reason why: ...the pairings. Truthfully, I just do not UNDERSTAND WHY so many people like SasuSaku and NaruHina. YES PEOPLE, I do know they look cute/hot/awesome with each other and acknowlede that. NO, I cannot see reason. It just seems so clique [Tenchan edit: cliche]! "Wow, I like that guy. Wonder if he likes me? *gasp* He does? YES!" ...yeah, that's how it's like in my head; it just seems so shallow to me, no REAL chemistry. I'm not being mean, I just can't see it. Can I see them going out for awhile? Eh, possibly, maybe one to three days at most. The pairings really just seem bleh. N o spark. Any pairings I CAN see? I can definately see NaruSaku happening. Naruto's got this strange fascination with her and Sakura's inner battle is because of him. So it kinda makes sense and has more meaning. For Sasuke, him being a loner, I think he's really just gonna keep to himself but make a real connection with Naruto (if the ending is any indication) as well as Sakura, though probably not as strong. For Hinata, um... I really have no idea with this girl. She's exactly as you describe her, so putting her together with Naruto? Hmm, very tempting... if it actually made sense; I can see them hanging out though. Hmm, anything else? Naw, not really. You portrayed it so well it's as if you were on the board of directors! That's how well written it is!! So really, my only issue is essentially just the pairings. If you don't change it, tough luck for me. If you do, well--guess I'd be pretty happy! Though I get the feeling you'll stick with your original parings. Really a great story, just can't couples that have no meaning. I am indignant. scream Discuss.
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:58 am
No really, people. If you don't like a pairing...then don't read a fanfic on it. If you're reading it just to be curious and trying to be "open-minded" ...don't go and criticize the pairing in your review. It's rude.
There are so many assumptions in this person's review that make me angry. Most people do not like SasuSaku (and NaruHina, since she mentioned it) just because they are "cute" or "hot" together. That can be some reasons but it's not the biggest reasons people support the pairings! Also those pairings may be "clique" (And boy and I am sick of people people spelling the word cliché as 'clique'), NaruSaku is as well, and possibly even a little more cliché than those two pairings.
And Sakura's inner battle is because of Naruto? Please. I'm tired of everyone saying that every good/interesting thing that happens with Sakura is because of Naruto. "Sakura got stronger over the timeskip because of Naruto!" "Sakura stopped fangirling because of Naruto!" Blah, blah. He can be a factor in these things but I think it's Sasuke who did more of this. Who told her to train instead of fangirling, and who's departure from the village made Sakura think back on her usefulness as a ninja and a friend?
Also, I say Sasuke has a strong connection with the both of them. Sasuke and Naruto's are the strongest because (hmm...let's see...they're rivals and their bond just might be really important in the manga!). He admitted that both of them were his friends and both of them as his precious people. I hate when people try to tear down the SasuSaku bond.
I also hate how they freaked out about the pairings you support (God forbid you not be a fan of his/her preferred pairings) and then how they practically asked you to change your pairings in the story. I mean, they spent more time talking down on the pairings in the story than talking about the story itself!
And what exactly would make a pairing have "meaning" in their opinion?
Eh...this probably sounded harsher than your reply to this person. sweatdrop
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:00 am
I really don't think she meant anything mean by it.
When some people lean toward one thing, they tend to block out everything else. She probably liked NaruSaku more, because it looked cuter, and she's so fixed on it being this way, she doesn't see, or care, about the relationships the characters could have with other characters.
This goes for NaruSaku, SasuSaku, and NaruHina fans alike. Not to acuse anyone of doing it, but I've seen my share of SasuSaku and NaruHina fans become ignorant of the fact that there are also things that make SasuSaku and NaruHina impossible as well as things that make NaruSaku possible. And the reverse goes for NaruSaku fans.
I'm not saying this to be mean, rather, not everyone plays with an open mind as they think. These pairings... they're kind of like art, really. The artist who draws pictures, is so used to seeing everything in their style, sometimes they don't realize when they draw something off (e.i. anatomy ). Then when someone comes in to point it out, they get mad, because they don't see why they're criticizing them.
Sometimes, we get so fixed on SasuSaku getting together, we can't see it any other way. So when a NaruSaku fan comes in to point out the flaws in SasuSaku, we get mad, because we don't see these flaws. We are so fixed on SasuSaku being a perfect pairing, we can't understand how they could be wrong. And like I said, the same goes for NaruSaku/NaruHina (and maybe even SasuNaru) fans.
So there's no reason to get so mad. Try to correct her, while keeping an open mind of what 'bad' things she may say about SasuSaku. Maybe even point out a couple flaws in NaruSaku? ( But don't go overboard. Put yourself in her shoes. And if she gets angry, understand that you would do the same thing if your favourite pairing was being bashed. This also goes, even if she's bashing SasuSaku left and right. Showing her up may feel great, but it will make the situation worse, and she will NEVER come to see why we really think SasuSaku is a good pairing. Try to calm her down, and if it helps, leave for a few days and come back. Take advantage of the fact that you are miles apart and have a chance to cool down. )
And if she only goes for 'okay, SasuSaku and NaruHina isn't as bad as I thought, but I still think they'll never get together', end it. It's her opinion if she chooses not to like SasuSaku/NaruHina. The fact that she is now aware of why other people like SasuSaku/NaruHina -besides them just being cute- is good enough.
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:01 am
*rolls up sleeves* -3-
Okay. First up.
THE CLICHENESS OF A COUPLE DOES NOT ADD OR SUBTRACT TO THE PROBABILITY OF IT HAPPENING.
Second. If he/she's complaining about CLICHENESS, why the HELL does he/she bring up NaruSaku?
"Wow, I like that guy. Wonder if he likes me? *gasp* He does? YES!"
Basically, turn the object of the crush in to a FEMALE, and BOOM. You have NaruSaku. The typical Hero x Main Female pairing. So hush.
If that person thinks that SasuSaku has no chemistry, he should just forget what they know about Naruto and just start from the beginning. Because SasuSaku has its moments. They're not blatant like "I LOVE YOU SAKURA" like this person is EXPECTING A COUPLE TO BE LIKE.
Chemistry is ATTRACTION. Chemistry is DEDICATION. SasuSaku has just as much 'Chemistry' as NaruSaku - More so in my opinion.
That's not in Sasuke's nature. No, Sasuke's moments of kindness and possibly even true affection are subtle and well-hidden, or Sakura's not even around or concious to hear them.
Example. "Sakura. You're the most apt in the field of genjutsu in our team."
Sasuke obviously noticed that they were not on the right floor, but he didn't need to say anything about Sakura. He could have just pointed it out himself. She was feeling down, he cheered her up. FACT.
Who cares about whether it has 'a spark' or not (IT DOES, BTW.) Sakura has risked her life for Sasuke. And if it weren't for him and Naruto helping to save her, she would have died trying to protect Sasuke (Half-transformed Gaara, btw)
Right. NaruSaku. Okay. I can say that I can see NaruSaku happening, but 'Sakura's inner battle?' I thought Sakura's inner battle was improving herself and not letting herself fall behind her teammates?
Improving herself so she can help bring back - who was it? OH YEAH. SASUKE.
And connections with Naruto and Sakura? But he doesn't care about Sakura AS MUCH is basically what they're saying.
Excuse me whilst I laugh.
"Naruto! Forget Sakura and save yourself!" = WRONG.
"Naruto! Take Sakura and run!" = CORRECT.
He called the both of them his PRECIOUS COMPANIONS. Not just Naruto, not just Sakura. Both of them. Just because Sasuke said Naruto was his best friend, doesn't mean anything.
I think Sasuke would find it easier to talk to Naruto about things like this. My theory is that the reason Sasuke seemingly opened up to Naruto more when he tried to stop him against when Sakura tried to stop him is because of the fact that Naruto is easier to talk to.
Not because he likes him more, but because of what I'm about to go in to.
Sasuke knows that at that point in time - intelligence-wise, he was smarter than Naruto. I think he knew that by talking, Naruto had no chance at convincing him.
It has been proven in the chuunin exam written test that Sakura is more apt in the field of stategy and obviously that she is pretty social.
SASUKE IS NOT SOCIAL.
I think that Sasuke knows that Sakura is obviously a better talker. So he says what he has to say and then does what he needs to do before she can turn his words against him.
That's my theory, anyway.
Sasuke left because he felt that bonds were holding him back after that encounter with Itachi where he couldn't do anything against him. If Sasuke did not care about Sakura, he would have let her fall to the ground. He wouldn't have spent his time and laid her on the bench.
So he/she can shut his/her trap about that.
Couples that have no meaning. Okay.
SasuSaku has chances of happening. It is not crack. NaruSaku has chances of happening. It is not crack. NaruHina has chances of happening. It is not crack.
I do not think that SasuSaku is perfect. No relationship is perfect.
Tenshi, I know that there's no way on earth that you will change your couples, so I have nothing to say about that.
A couple that has no meaning would be HinataXZetsu. SakuraXTobi.
To me, the meaning of SasuSaku is coming to terms with other people and improving yourself so you can save someone you love from being hurt. Sakura is not bringing back Sasuke because she misses him. Even though she DOES miss him, Sakura is bringing back Sasuke because she wants to save him from himself.
Sakura supports Sasuke in his revenge. She might not agree with it, but then again, neither does Sasuke.
"Revenge will make no one happy. Not you, nor me."
To me, that is the message behing SasuSaku. As I am not a NaruSaku fan, I wouldn't be able the meaning behind it as accurately as I might want to.
NaruHina, I think, is about acknowlegement. Hinata looks up to Naruto for being something that she herself wants. Confident. I think this admiration turned in to love over time, and it is obvious that two years later, Hinata still has strong feelings for Naruto. She wants to be acknowledged by him, as well as Neji and her father.
But that's NaruHina, and I can't debate about that as well as I would like to.
But yeah. SasuSaku has meaning and I dislike fandom wars XD I always feel compelled to type out big walls of text.
I hope my points meant something and wasn't just mindless rambling, Tenshi XD
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:04 am
I typed too much -3-;
And I agree with the points that MooMoo raised about leaning towards one thing and turning away from another.
And the fact that she probably wasn't trying to be mean and SasuSaku fans being fixed on one thing, as evident in my post... Ahahah, oops...
Although I do think SasuSaku has flaws, for the record.
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:27 am
That's the shame about SasuSaku. Unless you're looking for it, you won't see it. And you can bet NaruSaku fans deffinately won't be looking for it. That's why I don't think we should jump the gun if we hear 'I don't understand SasuSaku'. Because, like Nazo said, It's not blantly obvious. And people can say that without meaning to be rude.
I think you were pretty open-minded Nazo. ^^ When I said it, I wasn't judging people. ( I mean, it's impossible NOT to be a little biased in your own opinions. ) You pointed out NaruSaku has possibility, just like SasuSaku, and it's true.
When I said 'perfect', I didn't mean literaly, their relationship is perfect. Hmm... It's kind of hard to explain what I meant by it. >>; I wasn't referring to their relationship, rather, them as a pairing...?
Oh, and just to put this out there. I think Sasuke may find Naruto easier to talk to just because he's male, and he's a close friend ( But I'm not exaggerating on the 'friend' part. I'm just pointing that Sasuke wouldn't talk about personal things to a total stranger ). This goes for both genders. ^^;; I don't think it's really anything complicated.
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:50 am
Now MooMooJuice's post makes me feel guilty. XDQuote: I think Sasuke would find it easier to talk to Naruto about things like this. My theory is that the reason Sasuke seemingly opened up to Naruto more when he tried to stop him against when Sakura tried to stop him is because of the fact that Naruto is easier to talk to. Quote: Oh, and just to put this out there. I think Sasuke may find Naruto easier to talk to just because he's male, and he's a close friend ( But I'm not exaggerating on the 'friend' part. I'm just pointing that Sasuke wouldn't talk about personal things to a total stranger ). This goes for both genders. ^^;; That's true, and I also think it's Naruto's affect on people. I can imagine easily talking to him. heart
I also thought Kakashi was one of the people who Sasuke would be able to talk to the easiest because they're so alike. He would probably be reluctant but do it, but still open up after a while.
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:24 am
akamai_hi Now MooMooJuice's post makes me feel guilty. XDQuote: I think Sasuke would find it easier to talk to Naruto about things like this. My theory is that the reason Sasuke seemingly opened up to Naruto more when he tried to stop him against when Sakura tried to stop him is because of the fact that Naruto is easier to talk to. Quote: Oh, and just to put this out there. I think Sasuke may find Naruto easier to talk to just because he's male, and he's a close friend ( But I'm not exaggerating on the 'friend' part. I'm just pointing that Sasuke wouldn't talk about personal things to a total stranger ). This goes for both genders. ^^;; That's true, and I also think it's Naruto's affect on people. I can imagine easily talking to him. heart
I also thought Kakashi was one of the people who Sasuke would be able to talk to the easiest because they're so alike. He would probably be reluctant but do it, but still open up after a while. Agreed. I mean, Sasuke looked heavily effected after the battle on the roof when Kakashi gave him that lecture about his friends. I think Kakashi really was like a father to him -no- all of Team7 was like his family~
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:48 pm
I love the debate thread -3- Right. I wanna see what you guys say about this one. The SasuSaku parts are bolded. Quote: NaruHina is made of fail and aids, because Naruto IS NOT refined or mature enough for her. Hinata is a LADY, and ladies need GENTLEMEN. Neji is her best bet. SasuSaku fails because Sasuke's name is dirt with Sakura. in Shipuuden, she even tried to kill him. SasuNaru fails because Naruto is a shounen manga and this doesn't support an yaoi possibilities. Yaoi is for girls. Plus, Naruto is too masculine to be an Uke. No. ******** way. Nazo's Response Sasuke's name isn't dirt with Sakura. If it was, she wouldn't try to bring him back. She tried to hit him to stun him so he could be restrained and taken back to Konoha. That's kind of the point of the mission. So Naruto and Sakura are going around the world searching to kill Sasuke? They aren't trying to murder him. And despite the fact that Hinata does indeed come from an important family and is very refined, doesn't stop the fact that she still has feelings for Naruto. But I agree with you on the fact that SasuNaru/NaruSasu is unlikely to happen. Response to Response The part of Sakura that wants Sasuke back as a love interest has waned, and from her most recent actions and words to Sasuke she seems to have delevoped a seething grudge against him. From what I've interpreted, Sakura seems to be going along mostly because of Naruto's obsession with finding him. Hinata likes him yes, but both of them were brought up on completely different plans. Naruto lived as a streetrat for the most part, while Hinata was raised as nothing short of a princess. This isn't a disney movie. In real life, a void that wide would severely affect a relationship. It wouldn't work. At least we agree on something. I, of course, don't agree with this person (especially about the part with Sakura going along for the sake of Naruto), but I thought it pointless to continue because it was obvious it wasn't going to much other than start a fandom war. *sigh* Fandom is so harsh.
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:35 pm
Quote: SasuSaku fails because Sasuke's name is dirt with Sakura. in Shipuuden, she even tried to kill him. Sakura still cares very much about Sasuke, enough so that she almost got killed fighting Sasori just so she could find more information on where he might be. If he was dirt to her, she wouldn't try so hard to bring him back to Konoha.
Sakura didn't try to kill him. She was aiming to hurt him, yes, but that was so he could eventually be restrained and brought back to Konoha. Quote: The part of Sakura that wants Sasuke back as a love interest has waned, and from her most recent actions and words to Sasuke she seems to have delevoped a seething grudge against him. From what I've interpreted, Sakura seems to be going along mostly because of Naruto's obsession with finding him. Where in the series does Sakura say her love for Sasuke has deminished? What actions make her it seem like she holds a grudge against him? When she punches Sai for badmouthing Sasuke?
Sakura wants to bring back Sasuke just as much as Naruto does. That's why she trained rigorously for 2 1/2 years, so she could be strong enough to bring him back.
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:39 pm
Pairing wars really suck. >> They're pretty pointless and stupid, yet here we all are, doing it anyway. Because like hell are we gonna let our favourite pairings be bashed~ <3 Quote: SasuSaku fails because Sasuke's name is dirt with Sakura. in Shipuuden, she even tried to kill him. You-know, I hear this alot. People seem to have forgotten that Sakura is trying to bring Sasuke back. It would be pointless to kill him. She needed to weaken him because she knew begging and tears were not going to work this time. This is not some simple curse mark that had taken over his body. No. This is Sasuke's resolve, something he decided on his OWN. He will not be so easily pursuaded. Thus, violence has become neccessary. And Sakura, of all people, should know that. Quote: The part of Sakura that wants Sasuke back as a love interest has waned, and from her most recent actions and words to Sasuke she seems to have delevoped a seething grudge against him. From what I've interpreted, Sakura seems to be going along mostly because of Naruto's obsession with finding him. Again. Misinterpritation(sp?) of the first encounter in Part II. Sakura doesn't hate Sasuke, battling him was a neccessary act. They've tried reasoning with him, and he either ignored them, or it made his resolve even stronger. They tried to show him he was wrong, but all along he knew this would be the consiquence and continued on. The only chances of them getting him back is by force, or praying he doesn't die trying to kill Itachi, and try reasoning again when his goal is complete. And I don't they're about to take a chance at the latter. As for Sakura going along mearly because of Naruto's obsession. Well, I really wonder how they came up with that idea. Yes, she is doing this for Naruto, but only as much as she's doing it for Sasuke. She loves her teamates. She became stronger for both of them, she'd hurt Sasuke for both of them, she'd DIE for BOTH of them. And all of this is shown throughout the manga. At then end of Part I, at the first re-encounter, and in her battle with Sasori. Where as the idea of Sakura hating Sasuke and 'mearly' risking her LIFE for Naruto's obsession? None. I believe that whole idea was based on some hate for Sasuke, Sakura, or Naruto this person might have.
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:51 pm
@MooMoo: I realize the reviewer wasn't trying to be mean. I just didn't understand why 80 percent of his/her review was composed of ranting about the pairing. It's a FANFIC, not a debate forum. I'm still open to the fact that her preferred pairings could happen, or my preferred pairings could happen. When I'm writing a fanfic, I'm almost completely detached from predicting couples, because fanfics are meant for pleasure, not for debating about your preferred pairings.
Thanks for the replies, you guys. I was just venting my frustration.
MooMooJuice Pairing wars really suck. >> They're pretty pointless and stupid, yet here we all are, doing it anyway. Because like hell are we gonna let our favourite pairings be bashed~ <3 We'll defend our own if it comes down to it. But pairing wars make me belligerent - which is not a good thing. Wars are generally pointless and stupid, but human beings participate anyway. The people who don't like war can't help but defend their own by fighting.
*sigh*Quote: SasuSaku fails because Sasuke's name is dirt with Sakura. in Shipuuden, she even tried to kill him. I see one thing wrong with this: she wouldn't have punched Sai like that when he badmouthed Sasuke if his name was dirt to her. If it was, she would have joined him in abusing Sasuke's name.
Another thing wrong with it: like you guys said, she didn't try to kill him. No, she didn't. Her goal was to BRING HIM BACK. If you lost your cellphone and want it back, then found it, would you break it because it made you angry? Nearly the same principle.Quote: The part of Sakura that wants Sasuke back as a love interest has waned, and from her most recent actions and words to Sasuke she seems to have delevoped a seething grudge against him. From what I've interpreted, Sakura seems to be going along mostly because of Naruto's obsession with finding him. Seething grudge? Must've missed it. I thought she was CRYING when Sasuke disappeared a second time with Orochimaru during their brief reunion. I thought she was looking at the Team 7 picture in chapter 319 with a longing for Team 7 to be reunited.
Sakura does what she does because she wants to get Sasuke back, not only for Sasuke himself, and for Naruto, but for herself. It's a selfish desire. She wants to rest knowing Sasuke is safely in Konoha, not out there chasing after Itachi. She does it for herself, though not entirely for herself. Even if she doesn't say anything about loving Sasuke, it's obvious to me she's doing it out of great love for him (whether romantically or otherwise).
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:34 pm
Quote: Never before in my life have I seen a pairing so worthy of spitting on. Sakrua is a whiny girl who's focused only on Sasuke, when he is clearly not interested in her. He never pays attention to her! Only to Naruto!! NARUTO NARUTO NARUTO. He saved Naruto's life and almost sacrified his own (against haku) and he says that Naruto is his best friend! He never calls Sakura his anything! If he liked her even as a friend, he'd say something like he said to Naruto!! Discuss.
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:08 pm
I think this is my first post in the debate thread gonk I tend to stay away considering I suck at debates <3 I'll take a wack at it,though D:
Anyway;
Sakura isn't whiny or THAT focused on Sasuke. The girl was twelve, you can't expect a twelve year old to be a mature,emotionless and responsible shinobi right off the bat now can you? She was like most girls at her age,interested more in love.
Sakura matures throughout the series,and we see this firsthand. She hasn't had any incredibly disturbing experience to go through. Nothing to harden her up, so yeah she's going to cry a little when all this hardcore shinobi stuff gets thrown at her.
Sasuke admitted to Naruto AND Sakura to be his precious friends. When Sakura was being held up by Gaara's sand he told Naruto to save Sakura and run away,he said that Sakura was an important friend. When Kakashi tied him to that tree,he remembered Naruto AND Sakura. Team 7 is very important to Sasuke, even if he tries not to show it.
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:33 pm
Quote: Never before in my life have I seen a pairing so worthy of spitting on. Sakrua is a whiny girl who's focused only on Sasuke, when he is clearly not interested in her. He never pays attention to her! Only to Naruto!! NARUTO NARUTO NARUTO. He saved Naruto's life and almost sacrified his own (against haku) and he says that Naruto is his best friend! He never calls Sakura his anything! If he liked her even as a friend, he'd say something like he said to Naruto!! If Sasuke only paid attention to Naruto, why would he notice Sakura feeling nervous before the Chuunin exams and try cheering her up by complimenting her genjutsu skills? Also, Naruto isn't the only person Sasuke's risked his life for. He's protected Sakura many, many times in the past. They've all risked their lives for each other, because that's a part of teamwork and friendship.
Yes, Naruto is the only person Sasuke has blatently called a friend, but that doesn't mean he doesn't care about Sakura. If he didn't, he wouldn't have listened to her confession. Instead, Sasuke would've knocked her unconcious and left her on the ground. But he didn't do that. He actually listened to her, and thanked her, and took the time to put on the bench. To me, that means he cares about her, not that he hates her. :/
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