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 Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:15 pm
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Sardonic Smite Suicidesoldier#1 Sardonic Smite As it stands, I have considered the character concepts set before me, and made my decision. It was not made based on anyone's attitude or perceptions of the DnD Morale Paradigm, but merely what I thought would be the most interesting and workable party dynamic. I had intended to be able to bring you all more information about the setting, but all of my DnD minutes for the weekend were devoured by the three other games I'm in right now (another of which I'm the DM). However, I shall spare you any further excuses, and instead say, "I know, I suck, I'll try to have the stuff ready by the next day or so." Though, you may want to take that last bit with a grain of salt. Over and out! TL;DR: Character decisions final. Updates forthcoming.
wink |
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:46 am
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Suicidesoldier#1 Arc Vembris Sardonic Smite The final PC list is as follows: Players 1. wabbradford 2. Rain Yupa 3. Absolute Virtue 4. KytanaTheThief 5. Vampfighter1 6. Arc Vembris Chosen based on character concept. More information forthcoming. I hope yah dwarf has another game lined up, you're not in this one. Your evilness is so un-evil it's not even evil. Unaligned is that banner waved by those who proclaim the world not to be black or white. If you're gonna be evil, you have to own it. That's the result of the looser alignment bars in 4e, that if you're gonna commit to being good or evil it means it's a definite state. You ARE evil or you ARE good. Otherwise you've got a big non-judgmental, inspecific and far more realistic unaligned pool to fall in. In comes the concept of morally grey dude, nothing is blatantly black and white. But I guess that was just a random thing thrown in at the end. What your expectation of what an evil character would do doesn't have to match what my evil character would do. You may burn a whole village down; mine might simply let it burn down and ignore them for his central quest which is ultimately evil but ignores others. What if I was cruel and manipulative and simply spread lies or told others what to do or fought my way up a corporate ladder or something. Still evil but nothing would be overtly obvious or illegal about it. Course that would be lawful evil. But if I'm out using other people to help me kill dragons and as many individuals as possible I'd wager it's pretty evil.
If you're arguing about it then you're unaligned. 4e Evil isn't left up to interpretation. If it's kinda evil, pretty evil, rather evil, it's not Evil. Evil is straight-up Evil. Being callous is not being evil, being manipulative can be a heroic quality in proper circumstances and being dominant is highly questionable. I'm not going to argue about the correlation between morality and legality as that's highly context sensitive. |
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:17 pm
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Arc Vembris Suicidesoldier#1 Arc Vembris Sardonic Smite The final PC list is as follows: Players 1. wabbradford 2. Rain Yupa 3. Absolute Virtue 4. KytanaTheThief 5. Vampfighter1 6. Arc Vembris Chosen based on character concept. More information forthcoming. I hope yah dwarf has another game lined up, you're not in this one. Your evilness is so un-evil it's not even evil. Unaligned is that banner waved by those who proclaim the world not to be black or white. If you're gonna be evil, you have to own it. That's the result of the looser alignment bars in 4e, that if you're gonna commit to being good or evil it means it's a definite state. You ARE evil or you ARE good. Otherwise you've got a big non-judgmental, inspecific and far more realistic unaligned pool to fall in. In comes the concept of morally grey dude, nothing is blatantly black and white. But I guess that was just a random thing thrown in at the end. What your expectation of what an evil character would do doesn't have to match what my evil character would do. You may burn a whole village down; mine might simply let it burn down and ignore them for his central quest which is ultimately evil but ignores others. What if I was cruel and manipulative and simply spread lies or told others what to do or fought my way up a corporate ladder or something. Still evil but nothing would be overtly obvious or illegal about it. Course that would be lawful evil. But if I'm out using other people to help me kill dragons and as many individuals as possible I'd wager it's pretty evil. If you're arguing about it then you're unaligned. 4e Evil isn't left up to interpretation. If it's kinda evil, pretty evil, rather evil, it's not Evil. Evil is straight-up Evil. Being callous is not being evil, being manipulative can be a heroic quality in proper circumstances and being dominant is highly questionable. I'm not going to argue about the correlation between morality and legality as that's highly context sensitive.
It doesn't mean I've got to burn down villages or do other such things, though.
Or that I automatically start off having done so.
I really depends on your motivations for your actions.
Not necessarily that you just kill random people and eat babies.
Hitler was unquestionably, undeniably, evil.
But let's look at what he did; he didn't want to kill everyone, just Jews.
Loved people with blond hair and blue eyes and treated them well; would have slammed the breaks on his car to avoid hitting a German Shepard, also apparently liked dogs, puppies to be specific.
Does this validate his actions or make him "unaligned" somehow; hell, ********, no.
Just becuase when he was walking around doing normal s**t he didn't look any more evil than one would expect doesn't mean that he's not evil.
And then we look at Stalin- picked random people out of the phone book to kill and sacrificed millions of his villagers virtually as cannon fodder on the front lines. Undeniably, unquestionably, evil. Yet he didn't just kill everyone or not have any friends or anything- as a matter of fact, a lot of people loved him for his perceived ideas. Doesn't make him any better- he's still evil- but that doesn't mean he was incapable of partaking in other various actions.
The various idiosyncrasies in their behavior can, in many cases be explained by insanity. This doesn't mean they want everyone to die or would kill them; while Hitler wanted all the Jews dead it's not like he went around killing them one by one or anything, he waited until he was in a good state to do so.
Mao was also a terrible guy that the people loved due to his "rebellious" type existence and a movement from the common man- this did not make him less evil. He killed more people than Hitler and Stalin combined, and produced artificial famines that to this day have ravaged the population of the Chinese. The same "communistic" ideals are hurting them to this very day despite any good he might have done or anyone who might have liked him.
All of which is unquestionably, undeniably evil.
But there was no specific pattern of behavior in any of them, and a lot of what they did didn't make any sense at all. |
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:20 pm
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:36 pm
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:32 am
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Suicidesoldier#1 Arc Vembris I don't know where you're taking this conversation lol xd Long story short in D&D we like to assume that the bad guys are black and white and what is evil is clearly defined. But while there are things that are obviously evil they are totally off the wall and don't make a lick of sense at all. We wouldn't consider a person who wanted to wage genocide any less evil than a person who wanted to kill just everyone; maybe even the genocidal maniac even worse. But the fact of the matter is the method of operation need not be simple to determine if they are evil or not. There's a lot of depth to it and we should condemn those even if their evilness is weird or doesn't fit a common mold; hence evilness can take many forms and what it manifests as or is all depends on the situation.
Of course there are grades and shades of evil, but as you said 4th ed doesn't care about alignment. If it's evil genocide or evil omnicide, there's no distinction. If a guy wants to blow up the world the difference is semantics. If you're wibbly-wobbly about being evil for good reasons then that's an end/means discussion which D&D doesn't care about. You pick your alignment and ultimately it doesn't matter. |
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:39 am
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Arc Vembris Suicidesoldier#1 Arc Vembris I don't know where you're taking this conversation lol xd Long story short in D&D we like to assume that the bad guys are black and white and what is evil is clearly defined. But while there are things that are obviously evil they are totally off the wall and don't make a lick of sense at all. We wouldn't consider a person who wanted to wage genocide any less evil than a person who wanted to kill just everyone; maybe even the genocidal maniac even worse. But the fact of the matter is the method of operation need not be simple to determine if they are evil or not. There's a lot of depth to it and we should condemn those even if their evilness is weird or doesn't fit a common mold; hence evilness can take many forms and what it manifests as or is all depends on the situation. Of course there are grades and shades of evil, but as you said 4th ed doesn't care about alignment. If it's evil genocide or evil omnicide, there's no distinction. If a guy wants to blow up the world the difference is semantics. If you're wibbly-wobbly about being evil for good reasons then that's an end/means discussion which D&D doesn't care about. You pick your alignment and ultimately it doesn't matter.
Well yeah, that's what I was hoping.
But the DM said I would end up on wanted posters for basically no reason. sad
Like, my guy had just been turned evil anyways!
But oh well. xp |
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Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:48 am
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:14 am
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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:21 pm
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:14 pm
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