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 Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:06 am
Well, children. You are all going to take a short little walk through my neurological pathways.
For some time now I have been wrestling. Wrestling with my doubts, fears, little demon voices inside denouncing my experiences. The more I look into myself, the more I realize: My magick is real, but I can't admit it. I have direct sensory experiences I reasonably believe can not be disproven or discounted, therefore, they were caused by something. The small little corner of me, the (pseudo)scientific, athiestic agnostic skeptic can't let those in, can't give any ground, can't stop doubting, and above all, can't admit it's lying.
It doesn't care about actual proof. All it really things is rationality should only produce rational things, and it wants to ignore them when the irrational comes up.
This is the most disgusting form of superstition I can imagine, but I cannot shake it, argue as I may. It's not out for logic, it's out to prove itself right, even though it's not.
So I got a awful idea. I got a wonderful, awful idea.
In keeping with my spiritual tradition, I will design the strongest ritual I've ever done, invoke the uninvokables, and pull out all the stops. I'm going to perform a banishing ritual on my doubt. (And everyone who's in a 500m radius, as well.)
So who's with me? I want ideas, suggestions, comments. I want the way you'd do this ritual if it was you. Let's meet minds, people.
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:01 am
GASP! I like this plan. I've not much of a clue how I'd do it, though, cause I've never heard of using magick to banish doubts about magick. However, it seems like such an awesome idea that I might just do it meself~ However, my only input just now'll be that my version of the ritual would involve burning Descartes' Meditations; he was big on doubt, and he's the only symbolic link I can think of relating to uncertainty. Keeping handy a book with all my magickal acheivements would probably be a good thing to use, too, but I need to actually go away and think about this one. :/
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:37 am
I'd definitely like to do that. I have been wrestling with my own thoughts too
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:48 am
I personally need not wrestle with my thoughts... 'cause my philosophy about life is flexible (and reality more so~!).
However, I woulkd still be interested.
If you want the Crowley approach on this, which you may or may not...
[(Paraphrased/sumarized from Liber IV)
The sword is the analytical part of the mind. When facing something down, the sword is used to attack its complexity.]
Maybe have the doubt of the group become manifest into a single non-human entity, and then use the sword to destroy it (remember to keep the blade pointed downwards in the ritual...), thereby metaphorically destroying doubt?
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:52 am
Do you know what helps me when I start to doubt? Other magik/psi people. When I see (or feel) people do some wicked s**t, thats when my doubt goes away. When someone is with you during a magik experience and shared it with you, it makes the experience more valid.
Spirits help out a lot too. Its very hard to deny something's existence when it suddenly takes part of your cheese pizza.
Still, when doubt manages to sneak its way in, there seems to be always something that goes down to squeesh it. That most recent something was a freakin' potent something in a limo driving past me. A friend and I were driving around and passed a limo (random limo at midnight with no reason to be there). Whoever was in that limo was packing enough energy that even I got the shivers. And I leave my third eye closed, folks.
So yeah, I really love the Northwest. There's all kinds of wicked s**t that goes down.
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:51 pm
Joshua_Ritter Well, children. You are all going to take a short little walk through my neurological pathways.
For some time now I have been wrestling. Wrestling with my doubts, fears, little demon voices inside denouncing my experiences. The more I look into myself, the more I realize: My magick is real, but I can't admit it. I have direct sensory experiences I reasonably believe can not be disproven or discounted, therefore, they were caused by something. The small little corner of me, the (pseudo)scientific, athiestic agnostic skeptic can't let those in, can't give any ground, can't stop doubting, and above all, can't admit it's lying.
It doesn't care about actual proof. All it really things is rationality should only produce rational things, and it wants to ignore them when the irrational comes up.
This is the most disgusting form of superstition I can imagine, but I cannot shake it, argue as I may. It's not out for logic, it's out to prove itself right, even though it's not.
So I got a awful idea. I got a wonderful, awful idea.
In keeping with my spiritual tradition, I will design the strongest ritual I've ever done, invoke the uninvokables, and pull out all the stops. I'm going to perform a banishing ritual on my doubt. (And everyone who's in a 500m radius, as well.)
So who's with me? I want ideas, suggestions, comments. I want the way you'd do this ritual if it was you. Let's meet minds, people. *le gasp* OH EM JEEEE!!! I will do any help you can need, when I get a chance to get online more and let my hand heal it's CPS stressed
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:41 pm
awsome idea! burning_eyes I know what you mean..., I bealive that because I grew-up with a more 'realistic' "magik/psi is just stage magic, which i know the secrets of, but its still cool" view of metaphysics, that the seed of doubt would alwayse be there for me..., that little voice in my head telling that other little voice to shut up, just because you moved a psi wheel, dosen't mean that magik/psi exists. I like your idea of a banishing of doubt spell (yes I know the way I worded it was a bit D&D, gonk but...you know what...shut-up scream ) tell me if I can help in any way, or at least how it works out biggrin
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:58 pm
Interesting idea, I may look into it...seems it could be a valuable thing to have.
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:35 pm
I think that nagging bit is called the Ego. It will do whatever it can to rationalize itself and prove itself right.
Spiritual Alchemy has done wonders for killing my ego. You might look into it. It requires no rituals, merely observations and meditations.
If you do insist on a ritual then you'll have to listen to these other guys as I have little experience with ritual magic.
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:38 pm
Obscurus I think that nagging bit is called the Ego. It will do whatever it can to rationalize itself and prove itself right. Spiritual Alchemy has done wonders for killing my ego. You might look into it. It requires no rituals, merely observations and meditations. If you do insist on a ritual then you'll have to listen to these other guys as I have little experience with ritual magic.
People seem to think this is a good idea, though, so we can probably develop something cool together.
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:54 pm
Joshua_Ritter Obscurus I think that nagging bit is called the Ego. It will do whatever it can to rationalize itself and prove itself right. Spiritual Alchemy has done wonders for killing my ego. You might look into it. It requires no rituals, merely observations and meditations. If you do insist on a ritual then you'll have to listen to these other guys as I have little experience with ritual magic.
People seem to think this is a good idea, though, so we can probably develop something cool together.Killing that nagging ego is really only a matter of exposing it as a liar and a fraud, over and over again. I'm of course assuming that the ego is the culprit here when it comes to your doubt.
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:17 pm
Obscurus Joshua_Ritter Obscurus I think that nagging bit is called the Ego. It will do whatever it can to rationalize itself and prove itself right. Spiritual Alchemy has done wonders for killing my ego. You might look into it. It requires no rituals, merely observations and meditations. If you do insist on a ritual then you'll have to listen to these other guys as I have little experience with ritual magic.
People seem to think this is a good idea, though, so we can probably develop something cool together.Killing that nagging ego is really only a matter of exposing it as a liar and a fraud, over and over again. I'm of course assuming that the ego is the culprit here when it comes to your doubt.
You see, it's based a lot on my self esteem. Low self esteem, I doubt myself, it gets louder, the arguments against it are called fake, it gets even stronger, and it's a vicious cycle.
Now, I can do the opposite. If a magick ritual can remove the doubt, not only will it be silenced, I will also have immediate proof in that magick, which means I'm right, which mean self esteem goes up, up, up.
I am so gonna win with this.
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:45 pm
Obscurus I think that nagging bit is called the Ego. It will do whatever it can to rationalize itself and prove itself right. Spiritual Alchemy has done wonders for killing my ego. You might look into it. It requires no rituals, merely observations and meditations. If you do insist on a ritual then you'll have to listen to these other guys as I have little experience with ritual magic. ...ya, killing the ego... bad idea...the ego dosen't only say that magik and stuff dosen't work, here read and be filled with wisdom (**note I put an abbridged version under it if you don't feel like reading the entire thing smile **) Freud's Structural Model of the human personality According to Freud, we are born with our Id. The id is an important part of our personality because as newborns, it allows us to get our basic needs met. Freud believed that the id is based on our pleasure principle. In other words, the id wants whatever feels good at the time, with no consideration for the reality of the situation. When a child is hungry, the id wants food, and therefore the child cries. When the child needs to be changed, the id cries. When the child is uncomfortable, in pain, too hot, too cold, or just wants attention, the id speaks up until his or her needs are met. The id doesn't care about reality, about the needs of anyone else, only its own satisfaction. If you think about it, babies are not real considerate of their parents' wishes. They have no care for time, whether their parents are sleeping, relaxing, eating dinner, or bathing. When the id wants something, nothing else is important. Within the next three years, as the child interacts more and more with the world, the second part of the personality begins to develop. Freud called this part the Ego. The ego is based on the reality principle. The ego understands that other people have needs and desires and that sometimes being impulsive or selfish can hurt us in the long run. Its the ego's job to meet the needs of the id, while taking into consideration the reality of the situation. By the age of five, or the end of the phallic stage of development, the Superego develops. The Superego is the moral part of us and develops due to the moral and ethical restraints placed on us by our caregivers. Many equate the superego with the conscience as it dictates our belief of right and wrong. In a healthy person, according to Freud, the ego is the strongest so that it can satisfy the needs of the id, not upset the superego, and still take into consideration the reality of every situation. Not an easy job by any means, but if the id gets too strong, impulses and self gratification take over the person's life. If the superego becomes to strong, the person would be driven by rigid morals, would be judgmental and unbending in his or her interactions with the world. Im Nick Nicks abridged version++ Ego--the part which maintains a balance between our id and superego, also tries to keep reality as a factor Superego--the part of the that represents the conscience, tells whats right and wrong Id--the part of the which contains our primitive impulses such as sex, anger, and hunger. (like the little kid in all of us...in a bad way mrgreen ) All are needed to do their own thing so point is don't Kill teh ego....
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:13 pm
Im Nick Obscurus I think that nagging bit is called the Ego. It will do whatever it can to rationalize itself and prove itself right. Spiritual Alchemy has done wonders for killing my ego. You might look into it. It requires no rituals, merely observations and meditations. If you do insist on a ritual then you'll have to listen to these other guys as I have little experience with ritual magic. ...ya, killing the ego... bad idea...the ego dosen't only say that magik and stuff dosen't work, here read and be filled with wisdom (**note I put an abbridged version under it if you don't feel like reading the entire thing smile **) Freud's Structural Model of the human personality According to Freud, we are born with our Id. The id is an important part of our personality because as newborns, it allows us to get our basic needs met. Freud believed that the id is based on our pleasure principle. In other words, the id wants whatever feels good at the time, with no consideration for the reality of the situation. When a child is hungry, the id wants food, and therefore the child cries. When the child needs to be changed, the id cries. When the child is uncomfortable, in pain, too hot, too cold, or just wants attention, the id speaks up until his or her needs are met. The id doesn't care about reality, about the needs of anyone else, only its own satisfaction. If you think about it, babies are not real considerate of their parents' wishes. They have no care for time, whether their parents are sleeping, relaxing, eating dinner, or bathing. When the id wants something, nothing else is important. Within the next three years, as the child interacts more and more with the world, the second part of the personality begins to develop. Freud called this part the Ego. The ego is based on the reality principle. The ego understands that other people have needs and desires and that sometimes being impulsive or selfish can hurt us in the long run. Its the ego's job to meet the needs of the id, while taking into consideration the reality of the situation. By the age of five, or the end of the phallic stage of development, the Superego develops. The Superego is the moral part of us and develops due to the moral and ethical restraints placed on us by our caregivers. Many equate the superego with the conscience as it dictates our belief of right and wrong. In a healthy person, according to Freud, the ego is the strongest so that it can satisfy the needs of the id, not upset the superego, and still take into consideration the reality of every situation. Not an easy job by any means, but if the id gets too strong, impulses and self gratification take over the person's life. If the superego becomes to strong, the person would be driven by rigid morals, would be judgmental and unbending in his or her interactions with the world. Im Nick Nicks abridged version++ Ego--the part which maintains a balance between our id and superego, also tries to keep reality as a factor Superego--the part of the that represents the conscience, tells whats right and wrong Id--the part of the which contains our primitive impulses such as sex, anger, and hunger. (like the little kid in all of us...in a bad way mrgreen ) All are needed to do their own thing so point is don't Kill teh ego....
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:29 pm
...Since when does everyone know Freud? Seriously, I've mentioned psychological stuff (and Freud) before, and no one's said a word.
Anyway, I don't suggest removing your doubt, Josh. You'd essentially be removing your rationality. Though rationality may prevent you from fully believing in magick and the like, but rationality also keeps you sane. "Killing your ego", as Obscurus and Nick have said, would be killing the mediator between your id and superego, and all perception of "reality". So one would naturally have to take over. Either you'd be controlled by your conscience, or your..."inner child".
But I don't believe the ego can be killed anyway. Even with magick. I believe the id can take over all functions, but the ego is still there, as long as the superego is. A lot of Freud's theories have been under fire, but a lot of what he said had at least some truth, at least in my opinion. If the ego never develops, the superego never develops. Hence why many severely autistic children "never grow up", at least mentally. I think you can supress your ego, or have it supressed, but I don't think you can kill it. Parts of it, perhaps, but not completely.
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