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Upon reading a post asking why some of us haven't started threads, I decided I would as later, a sig in that same thread caught my eye and made me think.

So St. Patrick's day is coming up! The day when lots of people, Irish or not, take the holiday as an excuse to get plastered, act wild, and sing badly in drunken voices well before noon. And why are we all getting drunk? Because once upon a time a pious Christian drove the snakes from Ireland and freed the land from the terrible curse of an animal associated with all things unholy and deceptive. Or... was the man really such a good guy? Here's what Wikipedia has to say about the subject:



A Druid friend of mine has talked about this subject several times. According to him, the truth behind the legend is that the snakes were druid priests/holy-men/shamans... I can't remember exact term for them. Anyway, the idea is that the "snakes" of legend symbolize those pagans, and the idea of him "driving out the snakes" is actually that he forced them out of Ireland or killed them.

Somehow, given the hostorical symbolism, I'm swayed to believe that the legend does refer to the idea of St. Patrick forcing out/killing pagans, at least those who wouldn't convert. The idea of anyone in that time period managing to rid the entire country of snakes, or even thinking to attempt it, seems pretty far-fetched. Also, Christianity has a history of either converting pagans (ei, non-Christians), killing them, enslaving them, or driving them out. Given those facts, it seems to me more likely that the legend refers to Druids or other pagans, not actual reptiles.

Now then...

arrow Thoughts? Discussion? Proof of one position or another?
arrow Is St. Patrick's Day an innocent holiday, a celebration of xenophobia and/or religious intolerance, proof of a religion's triumph over evil, or something else?

If you analyze any holiday and you will find that they all arent what we thought.

I somehow really, really doubt that Saint Patrick was some sort of Druid Terminator.

First of all, When they killed pagans in those days, they didn't have to hide it. In fact, they were damn proud. An Inquisition was exactly what it sounded like. And second, although I can't speak about your friend personally, A lot of new aged people get too much of a persecution complex. In this case, it's probably just a myth, no genocide involved.

This isn’t taking in to the Sabbath alternatives to these holidays. As I presume you know a lot of Christian holidays traditions are bases of those of the Sabbaths

I agree with you, but, however, I do have one question.... *suspensful pause* Why do people pinch you if you don't wair green!?!?!?!

I personally suspect this is another one of those holidays that Catholics yoinked from the traditionally celebrated holidays in Ireland, a suspicion that I base on the fae overtones. Like, for example, the pinching thing, not to mention the wearing of the green. According to good old fashioned folklore, fairies of a social disposition wear green, and those of a solitary disposition wear red. Makes sense that the mischievous socialites would mock anyone they saw as refusing to participate in the social event of the season.

@Mitsh: rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
Ahem. Now to go cut off some pagans' arms and dye them green for my Saint Patty's Day shamrock decorations.

"Ye're tardie; I should have been aflame ten minutes hence."
- Agnes Nutter, Witch

...I think we should all enjoy the current spirit of any given holiday. Bitching about whether or not it was the right tradition to start just results in a bunch of crabby people. And remember, what any holiday evolves into depends very much on the people who celebrate it and the manner in which they do so.

I just look at what it means now. Beer and Plastic shamrocks. Wierd, but not evil.

I understand about the genocide thing. I can see that happening, as pagans really got the short end of a burning stick when populations converted to Christianity. I don't think they would hide it behind the snake story.