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 Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:30 pm
I have this belief that mankind is NOT better than other creatures... whether it be lesser mammals, insects, fish, birds, reptiles or whatever. We are merely another animal on the planet... and regardless of our advanced cognitive skills, we are not as special as we would like to think.
This debate really boils down to one thing for me... when you have the choice to kill a creature or let it live... such as an insect or small animal... will you kill it without remorse? Personally, I only have a vendetta against centipedes, mosquitos and weavils. If I encounter these 3 creatures, I will kill on the spot. But if I encounter any other creature, I will do my best to relocate it or scare it off. Although, if my safety is endangered, that is a whole different matter.
My point is this... the world does NOT revolve around us... and eventually we will either kill ourselves off or abandon the planet... and the Earth will get along just fine without us. I imagine we are like mosquitos to the earth. Annoying pests... but mostly harmless.
And of course, there is the common though that "I am human, therefore I must believe that my kind is superior."
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Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:38 am
No, we just make more s**t. In fact, making tools to make tools is the only thing that defines us from animals.
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Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:41 pm
Ah... I've heard 'making tools' makes us different from animals... but of course, that's been disproven time and time again. But 'making tools to make tools' is a new one!!
And I bet nearly every tool we make is to destroy something with.
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:17 am
Depends who you ask, Plato will say our incropral soul and Singer will say we suck let the chimps rule.
Singer is an intresting auzzie to say the least.-intresting read.
As for I, I belive we humans are diffrent and uniqe from animals. either by our reason, diversity or maybe even souls, however i don't think that it means we're better then them.
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Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:35 am
ochimaru I imagine we are like mosquitos to the earth. Annoying pests... but mostly harmless. I would have to disagree on that statement. I believe we are like mosquitoes with the West Nile Virus on the earth, because we pollute, destroy, and otherwise maim the earth like a disease would do to our bodies. Animals do not make tools because their bodies are their tools-we have to make tools because we have forgotten how to change our bodies to adapt to the world around us. Look at us compared to all of the animals of the earth-we developed brains in order to survive instead of claws, night eyes, or thick shaggy fur; we have abused that power of inginuity that the brain has given us by creating more things that destroy the earth. No, I do not like being human. I would like to be a cat, big or small.
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Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:04 pm
I have to say I can't deny that humanity has something about it that makes it so different from the rest of lifekind, but that it does not make it better. The way I see it, the masacistic universe works to eliminate it's own energy content. All forms of life are birthed by the universe as a naturally quick solution towards expending energy. Humans, with our natural tendencies to take in the physical world and develop it, make it better at eliminating itself, are perhaps the superior in terms energy consumption.
Animals often find a "balance" with nature, and humans, of course, don't. I don't believe that qualifies them as superior, if any other species had the chance or evolutionary "click" to allow them to monopolize on the planet the way we do, they would. If the humankind imbalance with nature occured through evolution FROM balance, then it can be only natural.
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:14 am
As far as I know, H. sapiens sapiens is the only species on Earth to build many, many shelters, taking the territory, and sometimes the life, of other creatures.
We kill when we do not hunger, and we create new ways to kill each other almost daily.
On top of that...we pride ourselves on it.
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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:02 pm
"Better" is a subjectively evaluative judgement. It is not something that can be quantified unless you specify a category. In short, better HOW and in what WAY is what should be asked here. Otherwise, there is no universally "better" anything whether your talking about a living organism or not. Speaking just of living organisms, however, how well something suits an organism depends entirely on the context of the surrounding environment. Evolution doesn't work in terms of "betterness" in a vacuum, but "betterness" in terms of the environment. As such, Nature doesn't give a damn if you happen to be a valedictorian computer programer if you're thrust onto a deserted island without a source of fresh water. It's all about context. It's ALL about context...
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Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:04 am
Well, then, Starlock, how would you ask the question?
If we can't say we're better or worse, then what can we say?
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Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:31 am
Cougar Draven Well, then, Starlock, how would you ask the question? If we can't say we're better or worse, then what can we say? As I said in the previous post, it needs to be specified better HOW and in what WAY. WHAT quality are you measuring? You cannot make a statement of global 'betterness' but you CAN make quantitative statements about specific characteristics. Of course, then you have to ask is higher numbers better than lower numbers? That, again, depends on the context of the environment. Or you can say better and worse, but realize that you're very biased in your assessment.
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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:58 am
Starlock Cougar Draven Well, then, Starlock, how would you ask the question? If we can't say we're better or worse, then what can we say? As I said in the previous post, it needs to be specified better HOW and in what WAY. WHAT quality are you measuring? You cannot make a statement of global 'betterness' but you CAN make quantitative statements about specific characteristics. Of course, then you have to ask is higher numbers better than lower numbers? That, again, depends on the context of the environment. Or you can say better and worse, but realize that you're very biased in your assessment. I completely understand what you're saying, but in what quantitative ways can we compare ourselves with another species? Certainly not numbers. Sure, there are more humans on the earth than, say, grizzly bears. But has anyone taken a cockroach census lately? How about mosquitoes? I know there are about eight billion of those ******** in my backyard alone. How else can we measure ourselves against other species? Intelligence? Dolphins. Society? Ants. Hell, there are some animals (the names escape me now, it's 6 in the morning and I've been awake all night) that rear their children as couples. How many human couples do that? On the other hand, sure, we adapt better than any other species on this planet, but who's to say that's positive? Anyone seen any dodo birds or messenger pigeons around lately? Thought not. Side note: Why, as humans, do we target birds for extinction? (Dodo, messenger pigeon, California condor, snow owl. The list goes on.) Just some food for thought. Like everything else here.
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:34 pm
******** birds!! *shoots his shotgun out the window of his car, then yells*
"You damn Magpies are next to go extinct! You hear me?!?!"
I measure 'better than' as in you... personally... do you think that you're BETTER than other animals? Do you have the right to live over their right to live? Do you have the right to take their lives just because you feel like it and have more power over them?
I think all of humanity wishes that we would wipe ourselves out to save the rest of the animal & plant kingdom our tortures. And damnit... we're trying... I can only eat so much grease & sugar! I'm deteriorating my body as fast as I can! And I hope you're all doing your part, too. lol
Anyone heard of the "Voluntary Human Extinction Movement?" It's a group who tries to get people to promise they won't have kids. Because "Only you have the power to prevent more polluters from being born." rofl
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Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:08 pm
ochimaru "You damn Magpies are next to go extinct! You hear me?!?!"I measure 'better than' as in you... personally... do you think that you're BETTER than other animals? Do you have the right to live over their right to live? Do you have the right to take their lives just because you feel like it and have more power over them? I think all of humanity wishes that we would wipe ourselves out to save the rest of the animal & plant kingdom our tortures. And damnit... we're trying... I can only eat so much grease & sugar! I'm deteriorating my body as fast as I can! And I hope you're all doing your part, too. lol Anyone heard of the "Voluntary Human Extinction Movement?" It's a group who tries to get people to promise they won't have kids. Because "Only you have the power to prevent more polluters from being born." rofl Go get 'em! Go after the pigeons, ochimaru, the pigeons! Personally, I don't think I have the right to take the life of another animal because I feel more powerful... ...but I will take their lives if they taste good.
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Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:55 pm
How can animals NOT be better than humans? Even though humans are animals, we make it a damned point to say were not by giving ourselves these fancyful names. We are animals, but very bad ones. We will be the cause of our very distruction. Do you think those squiralls are trying to blow the hell out of Iraq? Hell no. Are those bears going around shooting people and robbing banks? No. We are our own downfall, yet, for however smart we say we are, we're pretty damn stupid.
Now, to go on your main post and topic Ochimaru. 'Do you kill a creature or let it live?'
It is inhumane to kill a human who is in massive pain, but we drain the blood from old horses to make glue. To smash the brains in of the cows to get beef. We slaughter pigs to get pork, yet putting a person out of misery, such as cancer, its a criminal offence.
Animals prey on older or injured animals because they are easy to get. We kill chained animals and hunt them down, to mount or eat them. And not even all of their meat. Where wolves and other scavengers eat ALL of it, we eat what? A leg? No, throw that heart out, its not edable, even though you can cook it.
We, as humans, are the main cause of our very killings. It is our fault that we have an ozone hole and we are going to drown. And it will inevitably be our fault that the nuclear bomb blows up half of our world.
We are the assholes of earth.
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Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:58 pm
Cirendia ochimaru I imagine we are like mosquitos to the earth. Annoying pests... but mostly harmless. I would have to disagree on that statement. I believe we are like mosquitoes with the West Nile Virus on the earth, because we pollute, destroy, and otherwise maim the earth like a disease would do to our bodies. Animals do not make tools because their bodies are their tools-we have to make tools because we have forgotten how to change our bodies to adapt to the world around us. Look at us compared to all of the animals of the earth-we developed brains in order to survive instead of claws, night eyes, or thick shaggy fur; we have abused that power of inginuity that the brain has given us by creating more things that destroy the earth. No, I do not like being human. I would like to be a cat, big or small. Hear hear! I agree with every word. Only instead of west nile, lets try mutant ebola with west nile. I hate being *Blech* human. We are the all singing all dancing crap.
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