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 Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:40 pm
After completing Shadow the Hedgehog, I began to think about the continuity of the Sonic game series altogether. Although, I didn't really think about Sonic CD, 3D, R, Fighters, or the Game Gear games, as I have yet to really sit down and play them through on Mega Collection and Gems.
It all just got me to wondering, what's the chronological order of the games? Do they flow on a straight path or are there some that really don't fit, and just branch off into some alternate universe storyline? Apologies if this is a repeat question.
In trying to see them as following one straight path, I'm confused as to where Sonic Battle fits in. The Wiki article on Shadow states that Battle supposedly takes place after Shadow the Hedgehog. It kind of makes sense since there's a reference to Heroes. It wouldn't have made sense placing it right after Heroes because it would really reek of deus ex machina, specifically around Shadow---with him regaining all his memories all of a sudden and out of the blue.
But what really makes this confusing is Emerl. As Battle's story puts it, he's behind whatever accidents happened on the ARK including the demise of Maria. But when you take into account Black Doom...well, that really throws everything off. I wonder if Battle ever really happened at all or if it is just some alternate continuity. Well, one could say it did because we have Gemerl in Advance 3, but just because Gemerl looks like Emerl doesn't necessarily mean they're the same robot. Heck, for all we know, maybe Battle didn't happen and Gemerl is just some robot Eggman thought up on the fly.
Well, that's all my rambling for now. razz What are your thoughts on this? If there's something I missed that really does make Battle fit into everything, please point it out. sweatdrop
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:43 am
...Hm? I don't remember anything in Battle saying that Emerl was responsible for shenanigans on the ARK. What I remember is that Dr. Gerald discovered Emerl, fixed him up and studied him, figured out he's a superweapon that destroyed a civilization some thousands of years ago, then sealed him away or whatever.
So, that wouldn't conflict with the whole Black Doom thing and whatnot.
As for Gemerl, I believe he was either a repaired Emerl or a robot based on Emerl. I think the latter is more likely, since Emerl was supposedly completely destroyed when he exploded.
Then again, it'd just be simpler to say that Battle just isn't canon, but for some reason a lot of people just want all of the games to fit. xp
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:43 pm
Yeah, Sonic battle is probably one of the most plot destroying games of the Sonic series. It's like they wanted to make a story for the game, but decided to disregard some important facts about the storyline. I think battle still fits in between Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog, but barely.
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:04 pm
Keptan ...Hm? I don't remember anything in Battle saying that Emerl was responsible for shenanigans on the ARK. What I remember is that Dr. Gerald discovered Emerl, fixed him up and studied him, figured out he's a superweapon that destroyed a civilization some thousands of years ago, then sealed him away or whatever. AaronTheGreat I think battle still fits in between Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog, but barely.
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:16 pm
Azura Bladewright Keptan ...Hm? I don't remember anything in Battle saying that Emerl was responsible for shenanigans on the ARK. What I remember is that Dr. Gerald discovered Emerl, fixed him up and studied him, figured out he's a superweapon that destroyed a civilization some thousands of years ago, then sealed him away or whatever. AaronTheGreat I think battle still fits in between Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog, but barely. Well as far as I could tell Shadow didn't have all his memories back in battle, just his angsty attitude....
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:36 pm
Ah. ;;>.> Well, to me, it seemed like in Battle, he firmly knew who Maria was. While in ShTH, he was kinda like, "Who is this Maria?" O_o
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:38 pm
I agree with the above, Battle completely threw things out of wack storyline wise.
...If Sonic had much of a storyline to start out with. xD
All and all, I don't think Shadow the Hedgehog will be counted as a canon part of the storyline, seeing how bad it did and all after it came out. Time will only tell.
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:34 pm
Azura Bladewright One of Gerald's journals mentioned that the government took Emerl and showed him greater power than Gerald, thus he went haywire on the ARK. It ended with something like, "My poor, poor Maria..." Ah, okay. I just read a FAQ on the journals, so my memory is refreshed. Well, guess it's Fanwank Time. While I don't think that Emerl being at least partly responsible for the ARK incident is unfeasible (since Black Doom is only credited with giving some of his blood for Shadow's creation, from what I remember), it is very strange that he isn't mentioned in Shadow at all. The way they put it in ShtH, it was just a military venture that was put in motion to shut down Project Shadow, not to steal the Gizoid. Plus the Gerald Journals imply that Gerald got many ideas for Shadow's creation from the Gizoid, which would definitely be something to mention in Shadow's game. So, if we were to include Battle in canon at all (which seems doubtful since Emerl never gets mentioned outside of Battle, when he is supposedly very important to Shadow's back story), it would only make sense to put it after Shadow, since that's the only way the Shadow memory loss thing would make sense, and they'd have the (somewhat lame) excuse of "they don't find out about Emerl at all until the events in Battle".
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Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:00 pm
The thing that really irks me about Shadow the Hedgehog, is the fact that Sega just added all this crap about aliens, and never even tried to explain how the Hell Sonic and Shadow are so damn similar. So Shadow was created with Black Dooms blood, but how does that explain his equalling Sonic in both speed and abilities? It's just so irritating and honestly it makes Shadow into nothing more then a dang clone character, made so that 2 player races would make sense in the speed department.......
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Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:29 pm
I haven't seen a rule against topic necromancy, but I apologize if this was rather uncalled for.
I just wanted to say that after a little reading around, I found a couple clarifications and speculations that make sense.
1) The accident that Emerl caused is not related to the accident that killed Maria. They were separate events. After the Emerl accident, he was sent to research facilities on Earth. Gerald had to go down there to do further studies and experiments on him, and the accident that killed Maria happened while he was absent from the ARK, thus why he didn't get killed in the accident himself.
2) About Shadow looking like Sonic and having the same abilites, it is speculated that Gerald and Black Doom had a look at the ruins from S3&K that depicted Super Sonic, and they decided to base Shadow's design on that.
Agree? Disagree? xp
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Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:27 pm
It's possible that Shadow could be a hybrid, of sorts. After all, he looks too much like the anthro-hedgie design to just be a fluke for what could be the "perfect" being.
I had assumed that Shadow was already in the process of being "constructed" by the time Black Doom came into the picture. Course, I'd have to go back and play "Shadow..." to refresh my memory on the timeline. Perhaps it wasn't too late for Doom's blood to be accepted into the host body?
Not sure what to think about the mural on Angel Island. I guess it all depends on if the classic games are in the same continuity as Adventure and beyond (Knuckles never does seem to recognize the Chaotix in Heroes, does he?).
I guess it could explain why of all the animals, Gerald would choose the hedgehog as the perfect candidate for the ultimate lifeform's design....But again, it all depends on if Gerald actually SAW the mural...
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Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:06 am
AaronTheGreat The thing that really irks me about Shadow the Hedgehog, is the fact that Sega just added all this crap about aliens, and never even tried to explain how the Hell Sonic and Shadow are so damn similar. So Shadow was created with Black Dooms blood, but how does that explain his equalling Sonic in both speed and abilities? It's just so irritating and honestly it makes Shadow into nothing more then a dang clone character, made so that 2 player races would make sense in the speed department....... To quote Spacey from K-Pax which wasn't half as bad as everyone said it was. "Why is a soap bubble round? Because it is the most energy efficient configuration. Similarly, on your planet I look like you; on K-Pax I look like a K-PAXian." In other words, in the Sonic universe, a Hedgehog is the most efficient shape and form for a super speed spinning thing. It's just coincidental that Sonic and Shadow are the same, the whole POINT of SA2 was New Age versus Old Skool. Dark angsty story is all new age, just being Sonic and that's enough is old skool. Hence why he just says "What you see is what you get, a guy who loves adventure" Sonic was never EVER intended to have a story relating to Shadow. He's just Sonic.
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Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:16 am
Azura Bladewright I haven't seen a rule against topic necromancy, but I apologize if this was rather uncalled for.
I just wanted to say that after a little reading around, I found a couple clarifications and speculations that make sense.
1) The accident that Emerl caused is not related to the accident that killed Maria. They were separate events. After the Emerl accident, he was sent to research facilities on Earth. Gerald had to go down there to do further studies and experiments on him, and the accident that killed Maria happened while he was absent from the ARK, thus why he didn't get killed in the accident himself.
2) About Shadow looking like Sonic and having the same abilites, it is speculated that Gerald and Black Doom had a look at the ruins from S3&K that depicted Super Sonic, and they decided to base Shadow's design on that.
Agree? Disagree? xp Actually that second theory makes more sense then anything, and it also is related to one of my theories. I always imagined their were all sorts of ruins that depicted Sonic being the biological ultimate lifeform, and Gerald finding these ruins and deciding to attempt to bring this lifeform into the world early. @Sea salt, during the final battle in Heroes, Vector does know Knuckles name and how strong he is with out them being introduced at all. Same when Metal Sonic speaks of how he could ever beat Sonic. @ Samwise, K-Pax was a boring movie, but aside from that, I'm talking plot-wise, as in the plots explanation as to why this happened. The point is I want the actual Sonic team to explain it, such as why both Sonic and Shadow can utilize Chaos Control.
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Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:56 am
Quote: @ Samwise, K-Pax was a boring movie, but aside from that, I'm talking plot-wise, as in the plots explanation as to why this happened. The point is I want the actual Sonic team to explain it, such as why both Sonic and Shadow can utilize Chaos Control. A) K-Pax is an excellent movie ;P B)Samwise was mearly using a quote from prot to illustrate a point, there dosn't NEED to be a plot saying why they are similar, they are like bubbles, that's the best shape for what they do. Sonic got there naturally, Shadow was built for it. C) I really need to read the K-Pax book. I've read the sequel...
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Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:27 am
Thank you, Crimmy.
Again, the point of Sonic Adventure 2 was to bridge the gap between old and new. Sonic represents everything we children of the 80's/90's and Shadow everything that the 90's/00's do.
Sonic doesn't need a deep complicated plot with a backstory or an explination, he's THE HERO, he can do these things, he's just a guy who loves adventure, that's all.
Sonic Adventure 1 pulled the same thing, 4 of the 6 characters had pretty character driven plots which taught them all a little lesson about themselves, and with the exception of Gamma and Big, all of them grew based on their interactions with Sonic. Not to mention Tails, Amy and Knuckles all have Sonic referenced in their themesongs.
Yet Sonic's story is just him driven to do the right thing and fight Eggman.
At the heart of it, that's all Sonic and Eggman are, the hero and the villain. It doesn't run deeper than that.
Please, please... this new generation has taken so so much from my beloved Hedgehog... please don't take the core of the character. Just accept that he is a guy who loves adventure and nothing more. He can do these things because he's Sonic. That's all.
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