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What would you like us to do regarding Legendary moves and Balm Mushrooms? |
Nerf legendary moves |
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25% |
[ 4 ] |
No Legendary Moves by Balm Mushroom, and replace those already learned |
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50% |
[ 8 ] |
Other (please clarify below! :3 ) |
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25% |
[ 4 ] |
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Total Votes : 16 |
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Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:33 pm
Greetings Revolutionists! The mods have been hard at work continueing to fix up the guild and make it the best as it can be! We know you're all busy wrapping up from Tanabata or working on an entry for the Custom Pokemon Contest, but we'd like for you to take time in your busy schedule to partake in this poll please.
Balm mushrooms have been a much sought after Event Item in the guild due to it's game changing effect on pokemon to allow them to learn moves that they would not normally be able to learn, including Legendary Exclusive moves. However, after looking over statistics and doing some number crunching, we have found that Legendary Exclusive Moves are way too powerful for ordinary pokemon.
However, seeing as some pokemon have already learned legendary moves from Balm Mushrooms, it would be unfair to just force everyone to change since this is our mistake. However we cannot let this go unchanged for the sake of keeping the mechanics of the guild under control, so we have come up with two options for you to vote on.
One being that we continue to allow Legendary Moves to be learned via Balm Mushroom, however when used by any pokemon other than the legendary that they are specifically made for, they will be substantially "nerfed" so that they are not as powerful and system breaking.
The second option is that we end this chain now, apologize, and ask those who have chosen legendary moves via Balm Mushroom to pick another move of the same type as the one they chose previously.
This Poll Will be up for approximately two weeks and then it will close. Once again we apologize for any inconvenience either change causes, and thank you for your participation in this poll.
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Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:25 pm
I voted other, so here it is:
Keep it as is, but make it so one Pokémon can't learn more than one legendary move. This will prevent creating super powerful common Pokémon, or even a godly Magikarp.
As for telling people to replace an already learned move, that's just cruel. Why should someone have to change their Pokemon's moveset out of the blue like that? They technically learned that move fair and square, with no violation of the rules. So, it seems incredibly unfair to just go, "Hey, sorry! But, you're in violation of a brand new rule, so we're going to have to tell you to remove the legendary move your [Pokémon] has! Even though this rule didn't exist when you chose this move, we still have to force you to follow it, and punish you if you don't!" It won't go just like that, but that's...pretty much the sum of what that suggestion sounds like. Now, if a Pokémon has more than one legendary move, then yes. I could support knocking the count down to one.
Just to be clear, I'm not being rude. I know it may seem like I am here, but I'm not. I'm just agitated with losing this video game battle four times, so I'm really not putting in any effort to sound friendly or whatever word people prefer to use.
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Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:12 am
I picked other since I don't think the move should be made weaker, even if it's not a Legendary Pokemon using it. Well, if the amount they were being nerfed isn't too big, I might change my mind to the first option.
I also don't think they should get taken away from people who already got a Legendary move this way, but it does make sense that something should probably be changed.
A few ideas for fixing Legendary moves being used by non-legendary pokemon would be to add a recoil damage to them when they're used. So, they'd still be powerful, but you'd have to be careful when you use them.
Another idea would be to restrict the amount of times a pokemon can use the Legendary move per battle, then you need to pick the right time to use the move.
I'm full of ideas for this, so another would be letting only one pokemon in your active party that's not a Legendary pokemon have a legendary move at any one time. So, one Legendary move, in one pokemon's move set, for the entire party. This one I'm not sure about even, but figured I should add it.
Okay, one last one that's sort of out of the box. Perhaps for a non-legendary pokemon to learn a Legendary move, make a hold item that has to be held by the non-legendary pokemon to allow that pokemon to learn a Legendary move. That way, having a Legendary move is fine, but it uses up the Held Item. I personally like this last one, but that's just me. lol
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Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:37 am
I picked Other, but I am a little on the fence to be honest. I see both sides of why you would and wouldn't want to limit these powerful moves. Legendaries are partially so special because of their moves after all. And you don't want someone taking a Diglett and teaching it Aeroblast either. But at the same time, it's not like hoarding Balm Mushrooms to do that is the easiest thing in the world to do, so in a way I also feel the legendary moves are a bit of the incentive to get them as well. But of course, to the chagrin of those who'd only have it one way, I'd rather see a middle ground be taken.
And I do agree, at least halfway, with some of the other suggestions. I'd rather it not be worded the way Jewel put it, but I do feel completely negating the move would be a bit of a waste. Not that a pokemon suddenly forgetting a move over another is odd, all the blunt-force trama works wonders like that. But perhaps the one-move per-pokemon would be a good rule to go with, though perhaps one for the entire team would be a little extreme.
At the same time though, Crush Crush made a good suggestion as we;; that has me leaning towards the nerf-route. It'd be reasonable to say a lesser pokemon's body couldn't quite take the sheer might of some of the moves, even if some probably wouldn't be particularly strenuous. So perhaps recoil on some of the higher-damage moves, lower the damage down to 100 for others, and a perhaps something else for the moves that don't quite deal 100+ damage. So say, Roar of Time or Shadow Force could be brought to 100 damage, but Spacial Rend would have 1/8 or 1/4 recoil.
I personally would rather Legendary moves to be fair game with Balm Mushrooms, but I'm fine changing moves if need be. If it's possible, I'd say some balancing specifically for non-legendary pokemon would be the best route, unless someone else has a better idea that's fair, and not just all in favor of being overpowered and broken for the sake of being a Mary Sue.
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IndecisiveWolk Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 5:00 am
Crush Crush
A few ideas for fixing Legendary moves being used by non-legendary pokemon would be to add a recoil damage to them when they're used. So, they'd still be powerful, but you'd have to be careful when you use them.
Okay, one last one that's sort of out of the box. Perhaps for a non-legendary pokemon to learn a Legendary move, make a hold item that has to be held by the non-legendary pokemon to allow that pokemon to learn a Legendary move. That way, having a Legendary move is fine, but it uses up the Held Item. I personally like this last one, but that's just me. lolI actually like these ideas. Having recoil damage does make sense, as non-legendary Pokemon would not be able to handle the power of a legendary move, save some pseudo legendaries.
And making a held item specific for a Non-legendary to use a move sounds interesting as well. As if the held item boosts them up, giving the nonlegend enough power to use the attack, but the item is then consumed.
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Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:12 pm
No matter what is decided, I think anyone with a legendary move should be allowed to change it to another of the same type if they wish. In addition, it sounds like if "Other" wins here there should be another poll with all of the options people have suggested here to narrow the solution down.
I think that just nerfing the moves down to 100 base power would do the trick. There are plenty of very powerful non-legendary moves such as Zap Cannon, Inferno, Hydro Pump, Focus Blast, Megahorn and Power Whip which are all very powerful with no bad side effects or in some cases with great side effects. Not to mention there are plenty of normal 100 power moves out there that aren't legendary moves. This 100 power cap would solve the problem of legendary moves, as far as I can tell, and any problem that came after doing this would be more because of the balm shroom allowing strong combos than because of legendary moves, which is really a whole other discussion.
I am against the nerfs such as adding recoil or the necessity of held items- I like the concepts, but they really make most moves worse than just having a normal, non-legendary move of equal strength. Adding a cap such as 1 legendary move per pokemon I think is a good idea
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Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:28 pm
i'm all for limiting legendary moves to one per pokémon and even adding recoil. not so much for decreasing the damage done or limiting how many times it can be used in battle. or, making people remove already learned legendary moves. that's just cruel and unfair to them. isn't the point balm mushrooms to allow pokémon to learn moves they wouldn't normally learn? i'm 99.9% sure legendary moves are listed under that category.
also, why is this suddenly being put up under debate? no one's complained about it, or made it a problem. i'm genuinely curious, because this seems out of the blue.
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:01 am
I'm quoting y'all because you each commented on the poll, so I apologize if you would rather not be quoted, but I wanted to include you in case you were interested ^^;; I'm sorry if you would have rather not been quoted, though. Now, first of all, we know that asking people to replace legendary moves after they got them may not seem fair, and it's definitely not something we want to do, but that's why we have these polls, because the concern is there, but we don't want to just tell everyone to do something as disappointing and possibly frustrating as having to replace a legendary move, when there might be other options. Now that being said, it looks like replacing legendary moves has the most votes, but we'll be making another poll to include these options, in case people may have changed their minds. We'd like to discuss and narrow down the options first, though, if possible, so any input or preferences is much appreciated : ) And on that note, thank you all for the feedback and suggestions thus far! To answer your question, Lucifer, this is coming up because of a few reasons. One is that some legendary moves are very powerful; for instance, any Charizard with a Charizardite X can be taught V-Create automatically and do a base of 400+ in higher levels (I found this out when one of my character's Charizard's used it, and haven't really used it since because it's so op). A lot of them have high benefits with high power, too. There's also simply the logical stand point that these are legendary moves, and they should remain special and selective, since they're typically only learnable by legendaries themselves. So far the suggestions seem to have mixed results; giving recoil has, from what I can tell, gained some support, and makes sense. More than likely, if legendary moves are not voted to be replaced, they will be limited to one per active team, or per trainer, so I'm glad to see some are in agreement with that-- further feedback, for or against, though, is always appreciated. There's also the idea of simply dropping all legendary moves down to a certain amount of damage (100). Personally, I can see some problems with this because of the differences in their side effects (raising/lowing stats, causing statuses, etc) but I did see some mention of it, so I wanted to bring it up, too. I know there were some other ideas out there as well, and I may have missed some, but a few had positive and negative opinions on it, which is why I didn't specifically mention. Thanks again, you guys, for your help : ) This will hopefully make things a bit more clear and fair if we can all civilly discuss it, and see what our top options are to put in a final poll.
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:38 pm
Thank you for responding / answering a bunch of stuff! I'm really glad to hear there'll be another poll with more specific options, since there seems to be a bunch of choices floating around, and as always its great that you guys take the time to get everyone's opinions about changes like these. I think I, personally, would be okay with a one legendary move limit per character type deal. I think this would be nice since then people who already have the moves could keep them (or one of them) even if they are a bit strong. Though you make a good point with V-Create, it seems like that's really a special case because of its crazy attack power (most legendary moves fall into a somewhat more reasonable 90-130 attack range). Considering that attack and defense changes aren't nearly as impactful in the guild as they are in the game (x1.1 versus x1.5 etc.), the drawbacks for such a powerful move aren't very bad (recoil would be much, much worse in my opinion because the damage scales with the attack power). Something like saying any move past a certain amount of power (100-120) isn't allowed? That would run along the "normal pokemon can't handle such powerful moves" line of thinking. And I know I said it already, but I do think that the 100 power cap (or a cap close to it) is fine, considering that there's a whole slew of moves out there stronger than 100 base power, some with great effects / no drawbacks. I personally dislike the idea of recoil, but it makes a lot of sense and pretty much solves the problem of balancing so while I wouldn't vote for it I could accept it as a reasonable solution. Also sorry if this isn't the best place to ask, but what are your opinions on retroactively allowing two balm mushroom rolls? What I basically mean is, if someone changes their pokemon's move due to the results of this poll, would they be allowed to roll a second type to choose from (if when they originally rolled they could only roll once)?
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:35 pm
StarlightSchism Thank you for responding / answering a bunch of stuff! I'm really glad to hear there'll be another poll with more specific options, since there seems to be a bunch of choices floating around, and as always its great that you guys take the time to get everyone's opinions about changes like these. I think I, personally, would be okay with a one legendary move limit per character type deal. I think this would be nice since then people who already have the moves could keep them (or one of them) even if they are a bit strong. Though you make a good point with V-Create, it seems like that's really a special case because of its crazy attack power (most legendary moves fall into a somewhat more reasonable 90-130 attack range). Considering that attack and defense changes aren't nearly as impactful in the guild as they are in the game (x1.1 versus x1.5 etc.), the drawbacks for such a powerful move aren't very bad (recoil would be much, much worse in my opinion because the damage scales with the attack power). Something like saying any move past a certain amount of power (100-120) isn't allowed? That would run along the "normal pokemon can't handle such powerful moves" line of thinking. And I know I said it already, but I do think that the 100 power cap (or a cap close to it) is fine, considering that there's a whole slew of moves out there stronger than 100 base power, some with great effects / no drawbacks. I personally dislike the idea of recoil, but it makes a lot of sense and pretty much solves the problem of balancing so while I wouldn't vote for it I could accept it as a reasonable solution. Also sorry if this isn't the best place to ask, but what are your opinions on retroactively allowing two balm mushroom rolls? What I basically mean is, if someone changes their pokemon's move due to the results of this poll, would they be allowed to roll a second type to choose from (if when they originally rolled they could only roll once)? Of course! ^^ It is, and V-Create will most likely, no matter what, be removed as an option. We're trying to create a blanketing rule for the other legendary moves, since a legendary move is a legendary move, regardless of its damage, but if the general opinion is just to reduce the abuse power, well... that's why we're doing this, obviously x3 A lot of the mods themselves are on the fence about what to do. I'll wait for other opinions before commenting further on the different options, but I can say that if a move has to be replaced, or the rules change a users opinion that they'd rather have a different move because the legendary move has lost its appeal due to the changes, then yes, you'll be able to change the move, and if you didn't roll twice at the time, you can roll again. We will likely need to know about when the item was applied so we can find the initial roll and confirm things, and obviously we'll need to be quoted so we know who's changing what, when, and to what, etc, but we recognize the inconvenience, and we really appreciate anyone just being willing to comply, so I think it's safe to say we'd definitely let anyone replacing a legendary move who hasn't already rolled twice, get the same amount of rolls so they have the same choices to choose from ^^ Whoo, sorry, that was a pretty round about answer, but I hope it still makes sense!
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 12:32 am
Actually, legendary moves aren't exclusive. Smeargle can learn legendary moves by using Sketch. They're exclusive by leveling, not by learning from some other source.
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