Welcome to Gaia! ::

Hello guild members! A new guild event/ program has arrived.

WELCOME TO THE BOOK CLUB!

What is the book club?

The book club is going to be a place of discussion to help writer's improve their writing. Each week (on Sunday) a topic will be chosen to discuss. If you have any topics you would like to see discussed, feel free to personal message me.

Hmm...interesting. I think this might work better for reviews than the showcase, and I am all for finding out.

So, on to the weekly discussion (1st vs 3rd).

I find that third person is more useful when switching between/among multiple characters, and when you want a slightly disconnected feel. This feeling can be used to great effect - being in the world alongside the person is much easier to do with third than with first.

However, I find first lets you play with more emotion. "He watched him die" isn't anywhere near as powerful as "I watched him die." There's a certain rawness that practiced writers can induce in first person, even post editing, that just isn't possible with third. You can also lie to the reader much easier than in third; in fact, it's almost expected that a first person narrator is falliable, it's simply a matter of how unreliable they are.

In my opinion, each work should be written in such a way that the perspective can't be changed without losing a significant portion of the weight of the work.

I can't say I've found any correlation between new writers and first or third person. Maybe it's a generational thing, and more readers during my time were used to reading third person (on a tangental aside, most famous works are in third) and so emulated that, but I have no hard data. I do know that I see a lot of people new to first person leave out much of the emotional potential, as well as attempt to keep it strictly factual, as though they were writing third person limited. That, to me, leads to a very bland read.

Third is where I started with, personally. I started out disliking first, thinking it was too hard to separate myself from the narrator. That may have been the case thanks to many of my teachers wanting us to write stuff about ourselves, but I remember even then, choosing to write in a style as close to third as possible. Now, though, I find third has some limiting aspects that need to be manipulated to have a good effect.

I find your comments about likeable characters interesting. Not because it's new to me, but because of which aspect of characters drives you away - them being whiny. I find that to be a trait of characters who don't act, but only react. I have a whole rant on that, but short version simplifies to it's much easier to write a character who "suffers" and "suffers" as she lives her life. The better stories, first or third, tend to have a protagonist (or group) that takes action on their own accord. This is part of what makes Cold Mountain more interesting than Their Eyes Were Watching God, for example (or Les Miserables better than Great Expectations).

Just going to interject: that. I am a hypocrite, though. I write first person stuff, but I rather have the novels I read be in third person--especially fantasy.

That was just my little input, your response just caught my eye.

In all honesty, first person for me is still extremely difficult. I try to avoid it whenever possible, but it seems that increasingly more of my writing is leaning towards it. I guess I'm just a sucker for emotional punches at the end of each section.

On the other hand, the main three things I've done in first are Masako/Katie, a "high school" love triangle romance where the lead goes with an older woman who is so very much more open about sexuality and not a virginal archetype (abandoned due to lack of interest in the lead male), and a noir-mocking series of shorts with a Firefly-style "companion" heroine/villain (tabled because I keep having difficulty making her into a proper villain, except in the first short).

Huh. Apparently, I like sex. xd

Wattpad, huh? Well, that's probably a better sample than mine, particularly because mine's over a decade old and might be hazed my faulty memory. Last time I read stuff on Wattpad (that wasn't a guildmember's work), I remember it being 3rd person, and decent until "chapter" 4 or right around there, at which point, everything but the grammar quality went downhill. After that particular experience, I've come to the conclusion that sifting through the site for something good is like trying to find gold during the '49 Gold Rush. Funny enough, I remember my parents telling me that I was discouraged from pursuing math because of a series of poor teachers; I wonder if reading the terrible things there is doing the same to you (and anyone else who reads there).

Creating bias judgement is exactly what first person is about. In both perspectives, you're trying to manipulate the reader into feeling certain emotions (that's why "The Dog Must Die" is a trope*), but with third, you have to do it with a factual recounting. That isn't always a problem, but use of the word "I" actually does create a stronger bond with the reader in and of itself. Imagine the opening to Faux Start in third person, for example. The strength of the first two sentences vanishes.

Yes, I am familiar with a few where the reactions are crucial and indicative. Hunger Games and Catching Fire are probably the most recent well known books for that, as Katniss doesn't actually take much action without being prompted. It's around the start of the third book that she develops any sort of whininess, which is also, in my opinion, the worst part of the series.

For your rant, I think it that's a lot of people don't like criticism, and don't realize that the comments about what you write are going to be probably 4:1 criticism to compliments (looky, it's the Pareto Principle! xd ). That's discouraging to people who approach it with the mindset "I have a great idea! This'll be easy and everyone will love it!"


Why fantasy in particular?


*It occurs to me that I reference a lot of stuff in my posts here. I'm wondering if I should start annotating my posts. sweatdrop

i write third person usual, in my opinion, it pretty easy to write about the characters and get into their details. however, to be honest, it hard to keep it to third person to discuss the character like their name, personalities, etc.

i barely read books on my own, but in school, like the Kite Runner, it in first person because of Amir's narrative. but i have to choose first person because the narrative get into the characters when Amir met his wife (forgot her name already xD).

(i hope there no right or wrong answers, i be so embarrassed.)

i think that most people prefer to write in the first person because it is easier to bring more depth to a character and scenes are usually written from just one view point. you can add details to make it more informative /interesting but focus has already been decided . In a 3rd person's view point there has to be more attention to detail and usually there's more than one main character so when you write it you kinda have a lot more variables to consider from which character's viewpoint are you basing it on, how, how it would look from a spectator's standpoint etc. I agree with Yutora , it doesn't matter which one you use as long as it's well written& has a nice plot