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 Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:36 am
A lot of people say that religion brings comfort to people because the idea of life after death makes death less frightening.
I couldn't disagree more. I actually find the idea of existing forever to be somewhat terrifying. I find the idea of death being the final and absolute end actually quite comforting.
I've been trying to figure out why, since I seem to be an obvious minority. The most obvious issue is: what if I'm wrong? It's not that I don't have faith, I do. It's just that I also know I'm human and flawed and fallible. With all the religions in the world, my odds of drawing the correct one at random are actually pretty frakking small. And of course I feel that I know my faith to be true, but the same could be said of an ancient Roman pegan. How can I be sure I won't find myself at the River Styx instead of the Pearly Gates? And what if I chose the right religion, but did it the wrong way? What if I'm damned to hell? An eternity of torment sounds royally sucky.
Another reason is that I find many aspects of being alive very tiring, and an eternity sounds like an awfully long time, even in Paradise.
This sort of goes along with the last one: here on earth, I cannot imagine Paradise. I have no idea what such a concept would actually be like in reality. If anything, I think imperfections keep life interesting, so wouldn't perfect bliss be a little bit...I dunno, boring? I'm sure God's fixed it so it isn't, but again, I have trouble conceptualising it.
Maybe I just have a bad imagination, but eternal life, even in heaven, still sort of scares me.
Ironically, I'm not very afraid of dying. As many misgivings as I have about the afterlife, I'm still pretty excited to experience dying. There's no second-hand accounts to go on. Death is the one uniting feature of all life, yet nothing alive can know it. Part of me is anxious to solve the mystery.
Anyway, what're your thoughts? How do you feel about the afterlife, and does the thought of dying scare you? Just how stark raving mad am I?
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:31 am
It's fine not to fear death. It's a natural part of life regardless of one's faith, so it's easy to accept it. At least, that's how I see it. I did have a dream once about heaven, but I wasn't restricted to my present feelings, restraints, or convictions. How I felt, could have gone on for eternity and would not likely have gotten old, but who knows. It was just a dream. And I wouldn't worry about picking the right religion really. With the thousands of faiths people can walk, if it was really important to any said true deity that we follow one and not another, it/he/she/them would surely have provided more than a thousand different pamphlet's saying, "do this, not that," that differ so greatly from one another. For that reason I can only conclude that scripture is man-made, but at best, perhaps influenced by the divine. On that level, it's easier to see how wisdom has reached into nearly all religions. We just clutter the truth with ritual and dogma until we can no longer see what we were intended to see, and then it's easy to get lost. At least, that's my take on it.
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:58 pm
Oh, it makes perfect sense that heaven would be a vastly different sort of existence than life on earth. I mean, that's sort of the point, isn't it? I guess eternal bliss is just hard for me to make a reality, even in my own head.
I figure that any benevolent God would have to be pretty forgiving. Surely His expectations are realistic. The God I worship certainly is, anyway.
I guess I'm just afraid of getting cocky, just assuming that my Forever Home is heaven has always seemed sort of arrogant to me. I mean, I'm not special. Of course I hope to go to heaven, but to never even consider any other possibilities just seems...short-sighted, and frankly pretty self-righteous.
Because none of us deserves salvation. We're taught that it's a precious gift that was given to us out of unimaginable love, and that it's so special precisely because we don't deserve it. Yet I feel like so many Christians take it for granted and always assume they're going to heaven, PLAN for going to heaven. And something about that attitude really rubs me the wrong way. I mean, I guess part of being Christian is having faith that you're correct and saved and that heaven is your final destination. But to never even entertain any other possibilities? To never even CONSIDER the possibility of being wrong? Doesn't seem very humble to me.
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:12 pm
 I know I'm with Jesus but the thought of death terrifies me. I cant imagine my husband dying or myself dying and leaving the other behind. I know that i would be beyond heartbroken if my hubby dies before me. Also I am terrified of going through the pain that I will have to go through when I die. Pain and medical anything scares me. I am also afraid of getting kicked out of Heaven or not being good enough to be accepted into it. I know that may be silly but i still fear it.
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:14 am
God is my strength... "Psalms 28:7"
I was suicidal most of my life. My earliest memories of life are of me wishing I was dead. I would be disappointed when I would survive near death experiences. I attempted suicide multiple times over the years.
But now I am terrified to die... Not because I am unsure of where I will go... I am scared senseless about leaving my daughter behind. I am worried about the fight my family will have just to be able to stay in her life.
I know that when I die I will be with God in Heaven. I have no doubt about that what so ever. I can't imagine the vast incredible paradise it will be, but I know it will be better than anything I've have ever experienced.
I know heaven is much better than Earth and I can't wait for the day when I can be there. I'm just not ready yet is where I stand.
...God is my joy "Psalms 96:11-13"
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Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:51 pm
Rosa the White Wizard It's fine not to fear death. It's a natural part of life regardless of one's faith, so it's easy to accept it. At least, that's how I see it. I did have a dream once about heaven, but I wasn't restricted to my present feelings, restraints, or convictions. How I felt, could have gone on for eternity and would not likely have gotten old, but who knows. It was just a dream. And I wouldn't worry about picking the right religion really. With the thousands of faiths people can walk, if it was really important to any said true deity that we follow one and not another, it/he/she/them would surely have provided more than a thousand different pamphlet's saying, "do this, not that," that differ so greatly from one another. For that reason I can only conclude that scripture is man-made, but at best, perhaps influenced by the divine. On that level, it's easier to see how wisdom has reached into nearly all religions. We just clutter the truth with ritual and dogma until we can no longer see what we were intended to see, and then it's easy to get lost. At least, that's my take on it.
It is important to the true deity, who is the living Son of God Jesus Christ, that we follow only Him, because He is the truth. That is why He said that He is the only way. Well, that's part of it at least.
He also provided more for us than "pamphlets" saying "do this, not that". He provided us with salvation, through his atoning death on the cross, because we are sinners.
If Scripture is man-made, there's no reason to believe in it. Period. Since you're an atheist-agnostic, you are acting in accordance with what you believe. This is nice.
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Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:57 pm
SinfulGuillotine Oh, it makes perfect sense that heaven would be a vastly different sort of existence than life on earth. I mean, that's sort of the point, isn't it? I guess eternal bliss is just hard for me to make a reality, even in my own head. I figure that any benevolent God would have to be pretty forgiving. Surely His expectations are realistic. The God I worship certainly is, anyway. I guess I'm just afraid of getting cocky, just assuming that my Forever Home is heaven has always seemed sort of arrogant to me. I mean, I'm not special. Of course I hope to go to heaven, but to never even consider any other possibilities just seems...short-sighted, and frankly pretty self-righteous. Because none of us deserves salvation. We're taught that it's a precious gift that was given to us out of unimaginable love, and that it's so special precisely because we don't deserve it. Yet I feel like so many Christians take it for granted and always assume they're going to heaven, PLAN for going to heaven. And something about that attitude really rubs me the wrong way. I mean, I guess part of being Christian is having faith that you're correct and saved and that heaven is your final destination. But to never even entertain any other possibilities? To never even CONSIDER the possibility of being wrong? Doesn't seem very humble to me.
You shouldn't fear death. Sin has lost its power. Death has lost its sting. Hurray!
I will say that I have wondered about eternity, and what the paradise of heaven will be like. Honestly, we cannot say whether or not it will be boring because, as you have said, it is hard to really conceptualize things like eternity right now since we know only so much about the infinite and a lot about the finite.
I think Christians do take it for granted. I also think that Christians can come to have the wrong mindset about heaven. The paradise is not in the content of heaven, but in the communion and worship of the God we love, Jesus Christ. All treasures in heaven are secondary. The true and great treasure we should all strive for is Jesus Christ. I look forward to Him. Everything else is a nice little detail.
I've considered other possibilities myself. I feel that communion with the eternal God is the best one. I do not base my faith off of what I feel would be ideal, of course. There's far more to it than that. But I do believe that communion with the eternal God is the best one. To Him always be the glory.
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Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:52 am
Scarlet_Teardrops Rosa the White Wizard It's fine not to fear death. It's a natural part of life regardless of one's faith, so it's easy to accept it. At least, that's how I see it. I did have a dream once about heaven, but I wasn't restricted to my present feelings, restraints, or convictions. How I felt, could have gone on for eternity and would not likely have gotten old, but who knows. It was just a dream. And I wouldn't worry about picking the right religion really. With the thousands of faiths people can walk, if it was really important to any said true deity that we follow one and not another, it/he/she/them would surely have provided more than a thousand different pamphlet's saying, "do this, not that," that differ so greatly from one another. For that reason I can only conclude that scripture is man-made, but at best, perhaps influenced by the divine. On that level, it's easier to see how wisdom has reached into nearly all religions. We just clutter the truth with ritual and dogma until we can no longer see what we were intended to see, and then it's easy to get lost. At least, that's my take on it.
It is important to the true deity, who is the living Son of God Jesus Christ, that we follow only Him, because He is the truth. That is why He said that He is the only way. Well, that's part of it at least.
He also provided more for us than "pamphlets" saying "do this, not that". He provided us with salvation, through his atoning death on the cross, because we are sinners.
If Scripture is man-made, there's no reason to believe in it. Period. Since you're an atheist-agnostic, you are acting in accordance with what you believe. This is nice.
The best of my understanding is that I would require a personal experience to shed light on which way is truth for me, but since the experience and religion will vary for which choice I make, it makes it seems like the details are all too human after all.
I just wish it was somehow more obvious, that's all. But I appreciate any and all light you or anyone else has to shed on the matter.
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:31 am
Subliminal Aftermath I know I'm with Jesus but the thought of death terrifies me. I cant imagine my husband dying or myself dying and leaving the other behind. I know that i would be beyond heartbroken if my hubby dies before me. Also I am terrified of going through the pain that I will have to go through when I die. Pain and medical anything scares me. I am also afraid of getting kicked out of Heaven or not being good enough to be accepted into it. I know that may be silly but i still fear it. I'm not so much afraid of dying as I am of being left behind. I've already lost my father and my best friend, both of whom died far younger than they should, and the thought of losing anyone else close to me is absolutely terrifying. I have a recurring nightmare where I'm in the house I grew up in. In the dining room. And it's one of those dreams where I can't move and nobody can hear me. And one by one, I watch two men drag everyone I care about down the stairs, bend them over the dining room table, and shoot them in the head. My mother, my sisters, my brother, my partner, my step-son...and every time I scream and yell and try to move to stop it, and I can't. I wake up screaming and crying every time. Call it selfish (because it is), but I'm not afraid of dying. I'm afraid of being left behind.
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:35 am
Did I just delete someone's post by accident? I went back to reply to it and it wasn't there.
I don't see how I could have, but if I did, I deeply, deeply apologise.
EDIT: Nevermind, I'm an idiot, that was in a different thread.
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:41 am
Rosa the White Wizard Scarlet_Teardrops Rosa the White Wizard It's fine not to fear death. It's a natural part of life regardless of one's faith, so it's easy to accept it. At least, that's how I see it. I did have a dream once about heaven, but I wasn't restricted to my present feelings, restraints, or convictions. How I felt, could have gone on for eternity and would not likely have gotten old, but who knows. It was just a dream. And I wouldn't worry about picking the right religion really. With the thousands of faiths people can walk, if it was really important to any said true deity that we follow one and not another, it/he/she/them would surely have provided more than a thousand different pamphlet's saying, "do this, not that," that differ so greatly from one another. For that reason I can only conclude that scripture is man-made, but at best, perhaps influenced by the divine. On that level, it's easier to see how wisdom has reached into nearly all religions. We just clutter the truth with ritual and dogma until we can no longer see what we were intended to see, and then it's easy to get lost. At least, that's my take on it.
It is important to the true deity, who is the living Son of God Jesus Christ, that we follow only Him, because He is the truth. That is why He said that He is the only way. Well, that's part of it at least.
He also provided more for us than "pamphlets" saying "do this, not that". He provided us with salvation, through his atoning death on the cross, because we are sinners.
If Scripture is man-made, there's no reason to believe in it. Period. Since you're an atheist-agnostic, you are acting in accordance with what you believe. This is nice.
The best of my understanding is that I would require a personal experience to shed light on which way is truth for me, but since the experience and religion will vary for which choice I make, it makes it seems like the details are all too human after all.
I just wish it was somehow more obvious, that's all. But I appreciate any and all light you or anyone else has to shed on the matter. I bolded the bit I feel you hit on the money. I, too, am a fairly rational person. I tend to believe in what I can see, in what I can prove. And I freely admit that the answers I've arrived at could have very well been coloured by the fact that I was raised in a very devout family, but I truly believe that I have experienced God's work. Things have happened to me that I can't explain by any other means than divine intervention. Had I not had those experiences, I very much doubt that I would be a believer myself.
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:39 am
Rosa the White Wizard Scarlet_Teardrops Rosa the White Wizard It's fine not to fear death. It's a natural part of life regardless of one's faith, so it's easy to accept it. At least, that's how I see it. I did have a dream once about heaven, but I wasn't restricted to my present feelings, restraints, or convictions. How I felt, could have gone on for eternity and would not likely have gotten old, but who knows. It was just a dream. And I wouldn't worry about picking the right religion really. With the thousands of faiths people can walk, if it was really important to any said true deity that we follow one and not another, it/he/she/them would surely have provided more than a thousand different pamphlet's saying, "do this, not that," that differ so greatly from one another. For that reason I can only conclude that scripture is man-made, but at best, perhaps influenced by the divine. On that level, it's easier to see how wisdom has reached into nearly all religions. We just clutter the truth with ritual and dogma until we can no longer see what we were intended to see, and then it's easy to get lost. At least, that's my take on it.
It is important to the true deity, who is the living Son of God Jesus Christ, that we follow only Him, because He is the truth. That is why He said that He is the only way. Well, that's part of it at least.
He also provided more for us than "pamphlets" saying "do this, not that". He provided us with salvation, through his atoning death on the cross, because we are sinners.
If Scripture is man-made, there's no reason to believe in it. Period. Since you're an atheist-agnostic, you are acting in accordance with what you believe. This is nice.
The best of my understanding is that I would require a personal experience to shed light on which way is truth for me, but since the experience and religion will vary for which choice I make, it makes it seems like the details are all too human after all.
I just wish it was somehow more obvious, that's all. But I appreciate any and all light you or anyone else has to shed on the matter.
You seem to have fallen under the misconception that we believe based on "blind faith". We don't. We have a whole system of reasonable and logical points for the proof of Christianity and its defense. It's known as Apologetics. You are not wrong to ask for proof. A believer should be able to give answers and defense for his/her faith. The Bible actually commands this in 1 Peter 3:14-16. So if a Christian ever tells you "don't ask for proof", that Christian is misguided OR hasn't studied enough to give you answers, which is a shame on him/her since we're commanded to study His Word.
There are proofs. I like to break them down into two categories: proof for God's existence, and proof that Christianity is true. The proofs for God are based in observable data and the like that lead to the logical deduction that God must exist. With Christianity, the proof is much more solid. In fact, in the end we believe in God not because of the observable information that led us to believe that God exists, but because Jesus Christ came, died, and rose.
I would argue that both sections of proof are solid, though. If you want, I can give you a run-down of evidences and proofs for God and for Christianity.
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:26 pm
Scarlet_Teardrops Rosa the White Wizard Scarlet_Teardrops Rosa the White Wizard It's fine not to fear death. It's a natural part of life regardless of one's faith, so it's easy to accept it. At least, that's how I see it. I did have a dream once about heaven, but I wasn't restricted to my present feelings, restraints, or convictions. How I felt, could have gone on for eternity and would not likely have gotten old, but who knows. It was just a dream. And I wouldn't worry about picking the right religion really. With the thousands of faiths people can walk, if it was really important to any said true deity that we follow one and not another, it/he/she/them would surely have provided more than a thousand different pamphlet's saying, "do this, not that," that differ so greatly from one another. For that reason I can only conclude that scripture is man-made, but at best, perhaps influenced by the divine. On that level, it's easier to see how wisdom has reached into nearly all religions. We just clutter the truth with ritual and dogma until we can no longer see what we were intended to see, and then it's easy to get lost. At least, that's my take on it.
It is important to the true deity, who is the living Son of God Jesus Christ, that we follow only Him, because He is the truth. That is why He said that He is the only way. Well, that's part of it at least.
He also provided more for us than "pamphlets" saying "do this, not that". He provided us with salvation, through his atoning death on the cross, because we are sinners.
If Scripture is man-made, there's no reason to believe in it. Period. Since you're an atheist-agnostic, you are acting in accordance with what you believe. This is nice.
The best of my understanding is that I would require a personal experience to shed light on which way is truth for me, but since the experience and religion will vary for which choice I make, it makes it seems like the details are all too human after all.
I just wish it was somehow more obvious, that's all. But I appreciate any and all light you or anyone else has to shed on the matter.
You seem to have fallen under the misconception that we believe based on "blind faith". We don't. We have a whole system of reasonable and logical points for the proof of Christianity and its defense. It's known as Apologetics. You are not wrong to ask for proof. A believer should be able to give answers and defense for his/her faith. The Bible actually commands this in 1 Peter 3:14-16. So if a Christian ever tells you "don't ask for proof", that Christian is misguided OR hasn't studied enough to give you answers, which is a shame on him/her since we're commanded to study His Word.
There are proofs. I like to break them down into two categories: proof for God's existence, and proof that Christianity is true. The proofs for God are based in observable data and the like that lead to the logical deduction that God must exist. With Christianity, the proof is much more solid. In fact, in the end we believe in God not because of the observable information that led us to believe that God exists, but because Jesus Christ came, died, and rose.
I would argue that both sections of proof are solid, though. If you want, I can give you a run-down of evidences and proofs for God and for Christianity.
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Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:52 am
You're not mad at all smile The finality of death is comforting to those for whom life itself has lost all wonder. Biblically speaking, Jesus was pretty silent on exactly what the kingdom of is like. It is at once a house with many rooms, a table with many seats, a wedding banquet and a throne room with fantastical angelic beings. This isn't even delineating the present heaven and earth from the new heaven and earth and Abraham's bosom. All I can tell is that there is a definite hinted complexity as to the structure of heaven and man's role(s) in it. Combined with Jesus' mystical language such as "no eye has seen or mind has conceived", the mystique and mystery of it (and the fact the God will be there) doesn't make an eternal life scary for me. In my struggle with dealing with life here I have found myself praying for more than anything...joy. Why? Because that is what keeps me going. The unknown and unfathomable gives me excitement, even apart from the concept of faith it is beautiful. If I have joy in even the simplest things I won't waste it or want to spoil it. And when there is no joy, my days are exceedingly difficult to get through. Everything feels predictable. I can see the cycles of life not as a partaker but an observer and it is arduous. If I find myself before God, I hope to never know him fully. For me it is the unknown and the mystique of his vast will and capability that makes life worth living. In time, seeing God as this helped me understand Jesus' story more. There is something pure to his prayer in Gethsemane as he pleas for God to not let him be crucified and then finally saying "but as you will". Also, when he says that only "the father" knows the time and day when the day of the Lord is. That unknown aspect of God often times seems daunting, but if after dying we then knew everything about everything it would all be trite. Physically (if we are so blessed to have it be this way), dying feels a lot like going to sleep. I read somewhere that the senses go in the order of sight, feeling, and sound. I hope that, if that is the case, that we'll then first see God, finally feel his presence, and at last hear his voice. (Will he sound like Morgan Freeman? Is he willing to take requests? :p) The thought of dying is still scary, even if it is natural. I pray that my thoughts will be on God when I do.
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Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:23 pm
Rosa the White Wizard Oh, I would greatly appreciate that. I've had some very intelligent discussions with people who have shed light on the evidence of God and Christianity. Although in most cases, it is pitting a more likely, plausible, possibility, over a less plausible, and less likely possibility, which is sensible. The difficulty I have at that point, is most of the rational, intellectual answers I've been told thus far, are logical to the point where God exists; whereas the assumption that God exists is usually the fulfillment to the end logic. It may be a single variable, but it's also the most important. So I'd rather not assume it. And historically, from what I have studied, Jesus does indeed seem real. My question is, how real is the Christian perspective to his divine influence and command? I've actually prayed quite a few times about this, which is odd, since I don't really believe. But if he's real I figured there's a chance he may yet answer. I will admit however, it could just be that I haven't noticed something critical. Thank you for taking the time to address these issues. Trust me, I know it can be frustrating. I'm not sure what you mean when you say "real", but I do know that you must first believe that God will answer you in order to get the answer you seek. There are many examples in the Bible (OT/NT) of people who spoke to God with no faith, those who had a mote of faith, and those who were abundant in faith. Those who had no faith typically didn't know God, or at least didn't know who they were talking to. The God of Christianity is first loving. If you believe that he loves you enough to give you an answer, if you believe that you are important enough to him to be given a reply then don't just half-heartedly pray. If you must, be like Job who basically shouted to God and demanded a reply. (Of course, he received an equally forceful response, BUT Job couldn't deny afterwards that it was God talking to him and not something else). The aim for every Christian is (supposed to be) to have a personal relationship with God. To be able to recognize him and see how he is working in their lives and how they are serving him. While intellectual answers are nice I view them like a Match.com profile--very informative but is only a beginning. If the person being described interests me I'm going to contact them, and not with a simple "hey" but with questions to show them I want to know who they are, and dare I say, one day meet them. God's a person (three persons in fact, albeit of same nature/substance), so I interact with him the same way I do the person on the sidewalk.
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