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 Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:45 am
I don't intend to stir up anyone or cause a heated debate. I'm just curious.
I'm a Catholic, and I've seen how Catholics often get bashed on by other denominations. I'm not naming names here, and I say 'bashed' because all the accusations they hurl against us kinda hurt.
1. Catholics have been accused of being a cult.
Evidence: I've read this article before (I would link it if I can find it again), about how Catholics are a cult and spread religious falsehood through the way we worship God (i.e. by having Mass and reciting the Rosary).
2. Catholics worship Mary, so they don't worship God.
Evidence: It's one of the most common misconceptions. We honor Mother Mary as the mother of Jesus, we love and respect her as we would our own mothers. Asking her to intercede on our behalf is pretty much like getting your mom to talk to your dad for you.
3. The Catholic Church is full of sinners.
Evidence: Waves of scandal from the Vatican and children being sexually abused by Catholic clergy. Even I find it hard to speak up about this, but it's still unfair to brand all Catholics with the same mark.
Discuss: What are your opinions on Catholics? I'd like to know. And, no, I'm not trying to flame denominational segregation here. Like I said, I'm only curious.
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:02 am
Most Catholics I know are pretty legit. Catholicism is very refined and it has been tempered into its current state since the dawn of Christianity. Granted, different denominations have sprouted over the years, but I tend to view them as the original Christians. I too was once curious about the potential issues of worshipping Mary through the making and praying at idols, but my interviews with Catholics have led me to believe this is not a problem. As the OP pointed out, they aren't worshipping Mary, just recognizing her, honoring her, and reaching out to her. As far as the bad rap sheet for *****, the media is all over it when this kind of thing happens at a Catholic church, but I've known several cases at other denominations that never made any kind of news, even when the whole town knew about it. It's media targetting. As it stands, you will get more of a worldwide response from a Catholic transgressor than you will a Baptist or Zionist transgressor. In terms of the world image, they have more to lose, statistically speaking. As far as people bashing Catholics, that just comes down to the usual, "You're not doing it my way, so you must be wrong!" People seriously need to get over themselves concerning this one.
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:17 am
Thank you. That's exactly how I feel. It's kinda tiring to see how most people tend to think that Christianity needs to be set in a specific mold or something. We're all Christian, and we all worship the same God, so why can't we just get along?
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:41 am
I was raised Catholic, so to me, Catholicism sort of is Christianity in its most traditional sense. I find many branches of Protestantism far stranger than Catholicism. Of course, that's just my own familiarity bias speaking, but still.
Also, I find calling (one of, if not THE) oldest organised Christian Church a cult a little ripe.
And while the sexual abuse of children within the Church is absolutely vile and offenders should be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law, it also needs t be kept in perspective. The Catholic Church is huge. The number of child abusers within the Church is a definite minority (although ANY child abusers in a church is too many, the point is that I do believe it gets overblown by the media, having people believe that this sort of thing happens in every Catholic perish the world over). I was, if I do say so myself, an adorable little boy, and was very active in the Church as a child. I was an altar boy and sang in boys' choir. I went to a Catholic school until university (and I spent half a year at a Jesuit university), and I was never once treated or spoken to inappropriately by any member of the Church.
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:49 pm
I was raised Catholic, but after seeing the way each side goes after the other, calling each other wrong etc. I've sorta given up on being this or that. I love Jesus. That's all there is to it. He gave His life for me, therefore I give my life for Him and his Kingdom.
And one thing I noticed about the whole Mary thing. I have the feeling that God used Mary like a prophet, He used Her to do His will, just like He uses the prophets, and everyday Christians like you and me.
"And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, 'Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts that fed you!' But He said, 'More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it.'" (Luke 11:27) Just throwing that out there.
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:54 pm
My family is Catholic. I grew up with it all my life. Only this I did rub me the wrong way was praying to Mary.
Only way to the father is through is son right?
This is mostly my own opinion of it. Just because I'm not comfortable with it doesn't mean I think any less of them. 3nodding
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:23 pm
Depending on what definition you use, any religion can be called a cult. Catholicism does have a lot of " cult" - visible elements of worship, like praying the rosary. Personally I love cult in that sense, so no problem there imo. Aspects of Catholicism are incredibly awesome - like monasteries. Also Catholics build churches. (Admittedly of course when most of the churches were actually built practically EVERYONE was a Catholic but still.) Have you read the Jack Chick tracks on Catholicism? That man is a horrible horrible person and a bigot. Watch your language please. :] ~ Subby. You get one more warning and that's it. So please be careful of your words before you post. - Rose
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:10 am
I have no problem with Catholics because (a) I don't judge anyone, no matter what they believe or do, and (b) I consider them Christians because they, too, believe in God and the teachings of Christ.
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:31 am
 I don't really see anything wrong with them. We worship the same God, that is all that matters. No one is going to believe the exact same thing as another group of people. I'm not exactly keen on praying to saints or Mary though... I'm kinds conflicted on that right now but I do like some Catholic aspects. Also it is silly to pen all of the scandals on that church, I have heard about PLENTY of other denominations that have had the same troubles and problems. There are snakes and goats in every single denomination, not just Catholicism.
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:29 am
Sanguina Cruenta Depending on what definition you use, any religion can be called a cult. Catholicism does have a lot of " cult" - visible elements of worship, like praying the rosary. Personally I love cult in that sense, so no problem there imo. Aspects of Catholicism are incredibly awesome - like monasteries. Also Catholics build churches. (Admittedly of course when most of the churches were actually built practically EVERYONE was a Catholic but still.) Have you read the Jack Chick tracks on Catholicism? That man is a horrible horrible person and a bigot. Watch your language please. :] ~ SubbySo true. The church I was baptised in is over 500 years old. Granted, it's been destroyed and re-built several times over between then and now, but there's still sections of the original architecture that have survived. I love places with so much history. (Re: church-building - Read Pillars of the Earth, or if you're not the reading type, watch the mini-series. Or do both.)
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:37 am
REGARDING PRAYING TO/WORSHIPPING SAINTS/MARY
Hopefully I can cleat this up once and for all. I feel that this is an especially misunderstood aspect of Catholicism that a lot of Catholics don't even seem to correctly understand. Or at least don't explain it well.
Catholics do not worship saints, or Mary, and the prayers we offer them are part of a process known as intercession, which exists in some form in almost all Christian denominations. We are not really praying to a given saint, rather, we are asking them to pray to God on our behalf. Asking friends or family members to pray for you is another form of intercession. What Catholics do with saints is, in form and function, almost exactly the same as asking a living person to pray for you, and while we respect saints, we do not worship them any more than we worship members of the clergy. They're simply figures who may, in some situations, be better-suited to talk to God about certain topics on our behalf, because of special knowledge or experiences they may have had.
Hopefully that's easy enough to understand.
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:28 pm
Quote: Watch your language please. :] ~ Subby. You get one more warning and that's it. So please be careful of your words before you post. - Rose What did I say?!
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:54 am
SinfulGuillotine They're simply figures who may, in some situations, be better-suited to talk to God about certain topics on our behalf, because of special knowledge or experiences they may have had. That raises a couple of more questions: Jesus said our Heavenly Father already knows what we need before we ask (Matthew 6:8 ), so why is the special knowledge of the deceased necessary? More of a rhetorical question, but who is better-suited to talk to God than Jesus and the Holy Spirit, both of which are called our intercessors (Romans 8:26-27, 34)? Quote: Romans 8:26-27, 34 (NIV) 26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God. [...] 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Quote: Hebrews 7:25 (NIV) 25 Therefore he is able to save completely[a] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. Footnotes: a. Hebrews 7:25 Or forever Concerning the Rich Man who went down to hell (Lk 16:19-31): instead of asking Abraham to send Lazarus back to life, why not ask Abraham to make intercession for his family, asking YHWH to open their eyes to the truth of hell and paradise? Righteous Abraham, who is called "God's friend" (James 2:23), could've put in a good word by that logic, but no, he didn't make intercession, he said "let them read Moses and the Prophets". It seems like only Jesus and the Holy spirit have the right to make intercession with our Heavenly Father, and the Holy Spirit dwells inside of our bodies, so only in the living (and Yeshua has a resurrected body, he's living too). Those in Sheol—in paradise or hell—have not been raised to life yet. In the Old Testament examples where people ask for intercession, they ask a person that is righteous and/or anointed with the Holy Spirit, and alive (1 Samuel 7:5, 1 Kings 13:6). To clarify, I'm not saying Abraham didn't believe in intercession; he clearly made intercession for Sodom while he was alive (Gen 18:16-33), but is not interceding once he "crossed over". Why is that? A man who would intercede for the corrupt in life, wouldn't change his will in death. Logical conclusion: it's not possible for him to do so anymore or else he would. OP: I personally am not a fan of practices that outright contradict our Messiah's words or the examples we have in scripture; it makes no difference whether it's a Catholic tradition or Protestant or w/e other division there is out there.
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Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:05 pm
Catholics are fine. Just as Christian as Protestants and Messianics.
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:21 am
real eyes realize SinfulGuillotine They're simply figures who may, in some situations, be better-suited to talk to God about certain topics on our behalf, because of special knowledge or experiences they may have had. That raises a couple of more questions: Jesus said our Heavenly Father already knows what we need before we ask (Matthew 6:8 ), so why is the special knowledge of the deceased necessary? More of a rhetorical question, but who is better-suited to talk to God than Jesus and the Holy Spirit, both of which are called our intercessors (Romans 8:26-27, 34)? Quote: Romans 8:26-27, 34 (NIV) 26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God. [...] 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Quote: Hebrews 7:25 (NIV) 25 Therefore he is able to save completely[a] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. Footnotes: a. Hebrews 7:25 Or forever Concerning the Rich Man who went down to hell (Lk 16:19-31): instead of asking Abraham to send Lazarus back to life, why not ask Abraham to make intercession for his family, asking YHWH to open their eyes to the truth of hell and paradise? Righteous Abraham, who is called "God's friend" (James 2:23), could've put in a good word by that logic, but no, he didn't make intercession, he said "let them read Moses and the Prophets". It seems like only Jesus and the Holy spirit have the right to make intercession with our Heavenly Father, and the Holy Spirit dwells inside of our bodies, so only in the living (and Yeshua has a resurrected body, he's living too). Those in Sheol—in paradise or hell—have not been raised to life yet. In the Old Testament examples where people ask for intercession, they ask a person that is righteous and/or anointed with the Holy Spirit, and alive (1 Samuel 7:5, 1 Kings 13:6). To clarify, I'm not saying Abraham didn't believe in intercession; he clearly made intercession for Sodom while he was alive (Gen 18:16-33), but is not interceding once he "crossed over". Why is that? A man who would intercede for the corrupt in life, wouldn't change his will in death. Logical conclusion: it's not possible for him to do so anymore or else he would. OP: I personally am not a fan of practices that outright contradict our Messiah's words or the examples we have in scripture; it makes no difference whether it's a Catholic tradition or Protestant or w/e other division there is out there. I'm way past defending Catholic practises, sister. Just here to educate, nothing more.
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