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Lunar_Huntress17

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:57 pm


Okay, so I have been wondering this for a long time, after reading what a true wiccan is, I began to ask myself "What if there is someone who has the exact same beliefs as wiccans, but doesn't have a coven nearby to get initiated into, why can they not call themselves wiccan?" Now, I understand if people who don't understand what wicca is but say they are have no right. But what if someone did the proper research, know what true wicca is, but doesn't have a coven in their area to get initiated into even though they wish to enter a coven and join the wiccan community? Can they not claim to be Wiccan?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:00 pm


Now I myself am not wiccan, I do use the Rede as a guiding hand, but other than that I have no real workings with Wiccan practices. That is why I am asking this, I just don't think its completely fair to those who do understand it and want to be wiccan, but have no coven to join.

Lunar_Huntress17

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:28 pm


Someone who is not an initiate into a true Wiccan coven can't understand or know the Mysteries, beliefs and practices of Wiccans. Wiccan is oath bound, so whatever information you find is outer court. You're not going to find anything but outer court information in books or websites, and even if you find a true Wiccan, I doubt they'll break their oaths for the curious person. So these non-initiates don't know Wicca so they don't have the right to call themselves as such. Plus, becoming an initiate is a lot of hard work and they earned it, to have people just taking the title with barely any effort is rude in my opinion. The only real way to learn is through a coven. It's not easy, but just because its not doesn't mean people can cut that part out for convenience sake. I believe Morg has stated on several occasions that she has to travel quite a distance to her coven.
And from what I remember the Rede has nothing to do with actual Wicca. I don't remember why or how it became the "Wiccan" Rede.

At least this is from what I gathered from several different discussions on the subject, so I apologize if I'm not 100% correct.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:39 pm


If you read the Wicca sticky on the main forum, it can answer your questions quite well.

However...
Wicca has no beliefs. It's a religion based in proper practice - when and how things are done. It at no point dictates to its' initiates what they should or should not believe. There are no beliefs that in and of themselves can make a person a Wiccan, or really indicate that they are Wiccan. Initiates can vary widely on what they believe - that isn't what defines them as initiates.

Rather... Initiation is, in this instance, admittance to a group or organization. Initiation recognizes a person as a member of the witchcult - it gives them entrance and access to Wicca. Initiation is the actual beginning of Wicca, and having earned that recognition and acceptance is required for one really honestly call one's self Wiccan. Wiccan is a title, no different from others such as 'Doctor' or 'Professor'. It is given by ones' peers when one has earned it.

Initiates share similar experiences based on the correct performance of Wicca's rites. If you aren't an initiate, you aren't taught these practices, and you don't experience them. Wicca is not made available to the public, at all. What a lot of people think of as 'Wicca' is really just neo-pagan witchcraft, mislabeled and misrepresented. This is why most people have no idea that Wicca is not actually a 'do what feels right', nature-based path that you can jam any culture or pantheon into, but rather a fertility-focused witchcult with a strong emphasis on male-female polarity and its' own pantheon of two specific, oathbound deities.

Wicca is not interested in numbers. It isn't interested in being everywhere, or available to everyone. It is immaterial to Wicca's design whether or not someone is close to a coven, or hasn't got local options. Those who are called by the Lord and Lady of the Wica to be their priesthood will find a way to study with a group. Sacrifice of time and energy, as well as travel over distance, is considered fairly normal. People who complain about such things are generally not given much sympathy. Since Wicca is a religion of priesthood - a priesthood who irrevocably give themselves into service of the Lord and Lady - it doesn't speak well of one's potential devotion to Gods and coven when you complain about a lack of convenience.

The only people who seem to complain about the apparent unfairness, or 'eliteness' of Wicca, are Americans. There's an inborn sense of entitlement there that is part of the culture, and it's really incompatible with Wicca. Life isn't always fair. Not everyone can have everything. Not everyone is a good fit for certain roles. That's just the way it is.

The Rede isn't Wiccan. It came into existence ten years after the founding of Wicca by Gardner. It was first used in a speech by Doreen Valiente, after she had moved on from Gardnerian Wicca to work with Robert Cochrane. It's up to the individual whether or not they want to follow the Rede's advice - it isn't a law, and doesn't have a definitive role in Wicca. Wicca's laws are the Ardanes.

Morgandria
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Lunar_Huntress17

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:40 pm


Okay, then if someone is trying to become wiccan, would they use such a title as "studying wiccan"?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:48 pm


Nyx Reborn
Okay, then if someone is trying to become wiccan, would they use such a title as "studying wiccan"?


The accepted term is 'Seeker'. Someone who is Seeking is either looking for a coven to study with, or may be studying with a coven working towards initiation.

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Lunar_Huntress17

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:29 pm


Okay, thanks, was just curious about it.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:58 pm


So I'm a Seeker with a Gardnerian coven- my coven is over 6 hours away, even though there are other covens that are closer to me physically, my coven is the right fit for me.

Part of the Charge of the Goddess that my HPS has quoted to me when I have talked about my seeking says:

"And thou who thinketh to seek for me,
know thy seeking and yearning shall avail thee not,
unless thou knoweth the mystery;
that if that which thou seekest thou findest not within thee,
thou wilt never find it without thee."

This can be taken the wrong way very easily- the Mysteries that make Wicca itself and not another witchcraft religion are things that are experienced because of the rituals like Morg said, but there has to be that spark of calling to Wicca, because otherwise you might seek Wicca when you should be seeking something else- like Feri, or another witchcraft religion.

Maybe it's like staring at your reflection on the water- seeing the depth and yourself at the same time, but until you dive in, there's no way to really feel the water. sweatdrop
I'm really just trying to describe what my seeking has been like.
Morg or someone- if I'm horribly off base I'm sorry.

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Sanguina Cruenta
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:21 am


We have a Q&A for Wicca here if you have questions regarding the Wicca sticky.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:21 pm


Reading this was very useful. It answered a lot of my questions. I am off to read the other thread, but wanted to say I appreciate the question being asked.

StarAngelKitty

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:20 pm


StarAngelKitty
Reading this was very useful. It answered a lot of my questions. I am off to read the other thread, but wanted to say I appreciate the question being asked.


Feel free to ask any more questions you may have heart
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