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PussInBooty

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:36 am


Please tell me what you know about the origins of the Bible.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:11 am


Well...what about the Dead Sea Scrolls?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:46 pm


animeisawesome12
Well...what about the Dead Sea Scrolls?


those are old but they are not the origin.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:52 pm


There are 39 books of the Old Testament (the Hebrew Bible) that were compiled by the Jews in antiquity through their culture. The New Testament is comprised of 27 books consisting of the synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John), the acts of the Apostles, the Epistles, and the Apocalypse a.k.a. Revelation. Three centuries after the establishment of Christianity the accounts and letters to the different churches were compiled to create the New Testament.

In Protestant Bibles, the total number of books is 66. However, the Catholic Bible and some Eastern Orthodox Bibles have close to 81 books - those books being associated with deuterocanonical and apocryphal works (books not considered canon due to content and debate in most non-denominational/protestant circles)

The_Servant_Grey


PussInBooty

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:38 pm


The_Servant_Grey
There are 39 books of the Old Testament (the Hebrew Bible) that were compiled by the Jews in antiquity through their culture. The New Testament is comprised of 27 books consisting of the synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John), the acts of the Apostles, the Epistles, and the Apocalypse a.k.a. Revelation. Three centuries after the establishment of Christianity the accounts and letters to the different churches were compiled to create the New Testament.

In Protestant Bibles, the total number of books is 66. However, the Catholic Bible and some Eastern Orthodox Bibles have close to 81 books - those books being associated with deuterocanonical and apocryphal works (books not considered canon due to content and debate in most non-denominational/protestant circles)


very good now can someone tell me the person responsible for canonizing the Bible and the year that it occur.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:57 pm


No one can really say for sure who the individuals were that decided to compile them in that era. But because the church was flourishing at that time, the most logical choice in "who" brought them together was probably Paul, Timothy, and quite possibly the Disciples. The most recent (oldest) completed Bible manuscripts date within 100 some odd years of the original copies. Apocraphal and Deuterocanocal works appeared much later by primarily unknown and ambiguous authors.

The_Servant_Grey


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:36 pm


Bishop Athanasius of Alexandria collected the books that would make up the Bible and put them together in 367A.D.
Many equally relevant religious texts of the time were omitted form the Bible because they didn't correspond with the Christian agenda of the time.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:12 pm


Cerulean_Paladin
Bishop Athanasius of Alexandria collected the books that would make up the Bible and put them together in 367A.D.
Many equally relevant religious texts of the time were omitted form the Bible because they didn't correspond with the Christian agenda of the time.


The Alexandrian fathers helped to compile the original 27 texts in circulation in the early church - totally true. The expulsion of the apocraphal/deuterocanon books were for many reasons:

1. Neither Jesus nor the apostles ever quoted from the Apocrypha (written approximately between 400 B.C. and the reign of Christ). There are over 260 quotations of the Old Testament in the New Testament, and not one of them is from these books. Jesus referenced the Jewish Old Testament canon from the beginning to the end and did not include the Apocrypha in his reference.

"From the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation,’" (Luke 11:51).

The traditional Jewish canon was divided into three sections (Law, Prophets, Writings), and an unusual feature of the last section was the listing of Chronicles out of historical order, placing it after Ezra-Nehemiah and making it the last book of the canon. In light of this, the words of Jesus in Luke 11:50-51 reflect the settled character of the Jewish canon (with its peculiar order) already in his day. Christ uses the expression "from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah," which appears troublesome since Zechariah was not chronologically the last martyr mentioned in the Bible (Jer. 26:20-23). However, Zechariah is the last martyr of which we read in the Old Testament according to Jewish canonical order (2 Chron. 24:20-22), which was recognized by Jesus and his hearers.

2. The Jewish people were entrusted with the oracles of God (a.k.a the Old Testament) [Rom 3: 1-2]. The apocrypha was never included in the antiquity of the Hebrew people.

3. The Biggest reason - there are MAJOR errors within the apocryphal texts, such as:

Condoning the use of magic - Tobit 6:5-7

Teaching that forgiveness of sins is by human effort and not of God - Tobit 4:11, Tobit 12:9

Using money as a offering for the dead - 2 Maccabbees 12:43

Major historical errors:

Judith 1:5, "Now in the twelfth year of his reign, Nebuchadnezzar, king of the Assyrians, who reigned in Ninive the great city, fought against Arphaxad and overcame him."

Baruch 6:2, "And when you are come into Babylon, you shall be there many years, and for a long time, even to seven generations: and after that I will bring you away from thence with peace."

The book of Judith incorrectly says that Nebuchadnezzar was the king of the Assyrians when he was the king of the Babylonians.

Baruch 6:2 says the Jews would serve in Babylon for seven generations where Jer. 25:11 says it was for 70 years. "And this whole land shall be a desolation and a horror, and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years."

Roman Catholics strongly appeal to Church history but we don't find a unanimous consensus on the Apocrypha (even though the Roman Catholic church included a few apocryphal writings in 1546). Jerome (340-420) who translated the Latin Vulgate which is used by the RC church, rejected the Apocrypha since he believed that the Jews recognized and established the proper canon of the Old Testament. Remember, the Christian Church built upon that recognition. Also, Josephus the famous Jewish historian of the First Century never mentioned the Apocrypha as being part of the canon either. In addition, "Early church fathers like Origen, Cyril of Jerusalem, Athanasius, and the great Roman Catholic translator Jerome spoke out against the Apocrypha. So, we should not conclude that the Church fathers unanimously affirmed the Apocrypha. They didn't.

The Protestants (and some Orthodox) reject the apocrypha for the reasons stated above. The apocrypha and all corresponding deuterocanonical works are full of false and unbiblical teachings.

The_Servant_Grey


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:57 pm


The apocrypha wasn't the only thing omitted.....there are many gospels that were omitted as well.

such as the gospel of Mary, Thomas, Judas, and Peter.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:13 pm


Cerulean_Paladin
The apocrypha wasn't the only thing omitted.....there are many gospels that were omitted as well.

such as the gospel of Mary, Thomas, Judas, and Peter.


The books listed are Gnostic works, known as the Gnostic Gospels. Christian Gnosticism emerged in the first and second centuries after the birth of the Christian Church. Generally, Gnostics hold that salvation of the soul comes from a quasi-intuitive knowledge of the mysteries of the universe and of secret formulae indicative of that knowledge. All the Gospels mentioned have errors that were labeled as heresy by the church.

The Gospel of Mary (Magdalene) was written around 120-180 A.D. and was clearly not written by the Mary Magdalene mentioned in the Synoptic Gospels. Six manuscripts are missing at the beginning of the document and four in its mid section.

Mary is given special knowledge (a reoccurring theme in gnosticism) because she is favored by Christ. The revelation itself denies a multitude of Christian teaching in the church, examples:

-Jesus focused on "inner" knowledge as a means to find salvation.
-The revelation rejects the redemptive work of Christ on the cross and focuses more on secret esoteric ways not found in the Synoptic Gosepels.
-it exposes the erroneous view that Mary of Magdala was a prostitute, which is theological fiction. She was an adulterer.
-the knowledge itself calls for the usurpation of the original Church authority.

The Gospel (of the account) of Thomas was written in around 90-180 A.D. and was not written by the original Thomas. The writer was influenced second century Syrian Christianity even such Syrian works as the Diatessaron which dates from 175 A.D. Again, this Gospel carries with it an even greater (but broader) spectrum of Gnostic teaching, teaching that:

-Jesus was a wise teacher: divine, but not necessarily human
-Not the messiah.
-Salvation is attained by learning secret knowledge (v.39) and looking inward (v.70).
-The kingdom of God is only internal within our hearts and will never become manifest in our world.
-God is many gods (v.30); possibly even some form of pantheism (v.77).

The Gospel (of the account) of Judas was written sometime around 130-170 A.D. and clearly not by the Judas who had betrayed Jesus Christ. The oldest extant copy is a Coptic document written in Sahidic (last phase of ancient Egyptian) in the fourth or fifth century. This Gospel account is blatantly incorrect when it is examined along side the original story of the Betrayal of Christ. Other than Jesus telling Judas to depart (to betray him), no other account in the Synoptic Gospels show the historicity of Jesus singling out Judas. Shortly after the betrayal, Judas killed himself. In this Gospel, Jesus approaches Judas and gives him "a special revelation". Gnostic teachings are apparent in the text:

-"'Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the kingdom,'" Jesus says to Judas, singling him out for special status. 'Look, you have been told everything. Lift up your eyes and look at the cloud and the light within it and the stars surrounding it. The star that leads the way is your star.'"
-Jesus wanted Judas to betray Him in order to fulfill Jesus’ plan of shedding his 'fake' physical body which is Docetism (A teaching that Jesus was divine but only seemed human).

The ancient writer Irenaeus (130 - 202 AD) in his work called Refutation of All Heresies said that the gospel of Judas was a fictitious history:

“They declare that Judas the traitor was thoroughly acquainted with these things, and that he alone, knowing the truth as no others did, accomplished the mystery of the betrayal; by him all things, both earthly and heavenly, were thus thrown into confusion. They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they style the Gospel of Judas.” (Adversus Haereses I.31.1)

The Gospel (of the account) of Peter was written around 150 A.D. in the mid second century [The document was also known as the Akhmîm fragment] which was later discovered in 1886-87. Eusebius of Caesarea (c. A.D. 260-340), the well-known early church historian, noted that the Gospel of Peter was among the church’s rejected writings and had heretical roots. The second main insight into the validity of Thomas is a letter by Serapion, a bishop in Antioch (in office A.D. 199-211), titled “Concerning What is Known as the Gospel of Peter.” It was noted that the Gospel of Peter had docetic overtones, was heavily gnostic in teaching, and had major embellishment and historical errors:

-Seven seals are used to seal the tomb of Jesus (Paragraph 8 ).
-A crowd from Jerusalem comes to see the sealed tomb of Jesus (Par. 9).
-The Jewish leaders camp out at the tomb of Jesus overnight.
The Jewish leaders fear the harm of the Jewish people (Par. 8 ).
-This does not describe the historical situation of the Jews before the destruction of the Jewish temple in 70 A.D.
-The Resurrection story actually describes how a super-sized Jesus exited the tomb with two giant angels, and a talking cross.

[Long version]

Error #1: The Guilt of Jews

The confession of the Jewish authorities guilt (par. 7; 11) lacks historical credibility. The confession of the Jewish authorities makes more sense in a context after 70 A.D. where the Jews were blamed for the destruction of Jerusalem as a result of not accepting Jesus as the Messiah. Furthermore, the reference of the Jewish scribes and elders saying, “For it is better, say they, for us to be guilty of the greatest sin before God, and not to fall into the hands of the people of the Jews and to be stoned,” likewise reflects a period after 70 A.D. and is definitely not earlier than the Synoptic Gospel material.

Error #2: The High Priest Spending the Night in the Cemetery

The author of the Gospel of Peter possessed very little knowledge of Jewish customs. According to paragraphs 8 and 10, the Jewish elders and scribes actually camp out in the cemetery as part of the guard keeping watch over the tomb of Jesus.Given Jewish views of corpse impurity, not to mention fear of cemeteries at night, the author of our fragment is unbelievably ignorant. No ruling priest would do that. Due to these serious blunders, it is highly unlikely that this Gospel reflects earlier material than the Synoptic Gospels. The author far removed from the historical events surrounding Jesus’ death and burial.

Error #3: Embellishment of the New Testament Resurrection Accounts

This resurrection account does not retain anything of the historical soberness that is in the New Testament resurrection accounts. This description of the resurrection of Jesus has a large angel whose head “reached unto the heaven,” and a giant Jesus whose head “overpassed the heavens!" Finally, the best example is the talking cross. The voice from heaven says, “Thou has preached to them that sleep.” The cross responds by saying, “Yea.” While it is possible that there was a giant Jesus whose head surpassed the heavens and a talking cross. This story is an embellishment of the simpler empty tomb and resurrection accounts in the New Testament Gospels. It is just another attempt like all the other Gnostic Gospels to “fill in the gaps” in the events surrounding Jesus’ life.

These Gnostic Gospels were rejected by the early church for the reasons stated above.

The_Servant_Grey


The_Servant_Grey

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:53 pm


Cerulean, if you're curious as to how the early church fathers discerned which scriptures were from God they followed a 3 step process: Apostolicity, Consistency, and Universality.

1.) Was a book written by an apostle or associate of an apostle of Jesus? (Apostolicity)

This was the first and main criteria for allowing a book to be in the canon of Scripture. If a book was written by either an apostle or an associate of an apostle (example, Mark was an associate of Peter and Luke was an associate of Paul), then the book would be in the canon. An apostle was someone who had seen the resurrected Jesus and who had a close fellowship with Jesus (1 Cor. 9:1). However, if the book was written over a hundred years after the time of Jesus, as is the case with most of the Gnostic Gospels including the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Peter, etc., then such books were obviously not written by an apostle and should not be in the canon. The last apostle who lived was the apostle John who died around 100 A.D. Any epistle written after that time was definitely not apostolic.

2.) Did the book agree with undoubtedly authentic writings? (Consistency)

The second criteria was whether such a book agreed with obviously authentic books of the New Testament. For example, the book of James was questioned because there was some doubt whether it agreed with Paul's writings (example, Romans and Galatians). No one seriously questioned whether Paul actually wrote a core number of epistles such as Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Philippians, and 1 Thessalonians.

3.) Was the book circulated amongst various churches? (Universality)

Another criteria, but less important, was whether a book was circulated amongst various churches in early church history. This criteria was known as catholicity or universality. This would help the church leaders to know where the Gospel or letter originated so they could trace its roots and determine if the book was apostlolic.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:44 pm


crying It makes me so proud to know that people actually know this information crying

Friar Thomas
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Black_Wolfs

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:52 pm


Goodness, that is a lot of information. All that I know for sure is that the first few books (being based in the time before and during the time of Moses) were believed to be written by Moses himself with guidance from God. Also, Psalms is a collection of songs written by King David and other believers.
I also know that Martin Luther, founder of the first Protestant church, translated the Bible from it Latin into German so the people could read the Scripture themselves. A man named Erasmus, who also worked in reforming the Catholic church, published the first parallel Bible of both Latin and I believe Greek.

My dad has a lot more information, but I'm not sure he wants to be bothered right now...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:14 pm


If I remember they were wroten by Peter who is a servant of god. later they were found by the church.

Then bam the bible is here.

God told the servant what to write and how to write it.

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The_Servant_Grey

PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:44 am


Ants In Your Underpants
If I remember they were wroten by Peter who is a servant of god. later they were found by the church.

Then bam the bible is here.

God told the servant what to write and how to write it.


There were many authors to each book of the Bible in both the Old and New Testaments - not just Peter:

Matthew
Mark
Luke
John
Paul
James
Peter
Judas (half brother of Jesus, not Judas Iscariot)

All their works were in circulation in the early church and compiled together to finish the New Testament. See above posts for further info.
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