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Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:46 am
After all, my wall calendar only goes that far into the future.
Seriously, I can't get over how stupid all this 'doomsday prophesying' is. It's just a calendar, guys. I have heard suggestions that it ends around some kind of major celestial event, which makes some sense, but declaring the world's going to come to an end on one day just because the next one isn't charted out yet, is profoundly stupid. Like, I really can't even begin to tell you.
You can argue prophecy, but there are issues with that too.
There are several mundane ways in which a prediction of the future can be fulfilled:
1. Retrodiction. The "prophecy" can be written or modified after the events fulfilling it have already occurred. 2. Vagueness. The prophecy can be worded in such a way that people can interpret any outcome as a fulfillment. Nostradomus's prophecies are all of this type. Vagueness works particularly well when people are religiously motivated to believe the prophecies. 3. Inevitability. The prophecy can predict something that is almost sure to happen, such as the collapse of a city. Since nothing lasts forever, the city is sure to fall someday. If it has not, it can be said that according to prophecy, it will. 4. Denial. One can claim that the fulfilling events occurred even if they have not. Or, more commonly, one can forget that the prophecy was ever made.
5. Self-fulfillment. A person can act deliberately to satisfy a known prophecy.
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Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:40 pm
(This is probably going to be quite a long post, and I apologize in advance for that.)
The Mayan calendar isn't like our modern calendars. It's circular and, from what I've heard, the parts move to measure time. Apparently it completes an entire cycle in 2012; I'm not certain on this, but I think that cycle was supposed to contain all of time, or something of the sort. So I can -kind of- see how someone might look at a calendar like that and get the idea that it's supposed to be the end of the world.
However, the ancient Mayans had no beliefs whatsoever surrounding any sort of catastrophe in 2012. All of these ideas about polar shifts and sunspots and whatever else they come up with has no basis whatsoever in Mayan beliefs.
I actually studied a lot into the 2012 theories in the past. If you actually look into it, most of the authors aren't claiming that it's going to be the end of the world, but rather some sort of "spiritual awakening" or "ascension" (although some of them tell you that this may be accompanied by natural disasters first). Most of these people claim to be given this information by spirit guides whom they channeled, who told them to share this with as many people as possible. However, not even these spirits can seem to agree on what's going to happen, since about everyone that believes that they've contacted them was told something different. What's more, most of the theories about natural disasters and cycles of time turn out to be scientifically inaccurate anyway.
I'm not necessarily saying these people are or aren't contacting something, but if they are, then it's clear that these spirits either have no idea what they're talking about themselves, or that they're lying to these people. Unfortunately, it seems that a lot of people these days seem to trust whatever information they're given by their "spirit guides" without question.
This might be a bit off-topic, but I think it's important to realize that the entire New Age movement basically was started with Theosophy. I don't know if everyone here is familiar with it, but it was started in the 1800s by a woman named Helena Blavatsky, who claimed that she had contacted spirits who gave her all of the information she published. Later another woman, Alice Bailey, claimed to have contacted the same spirits, who told her it was her mission to continue the work of Theosophy. To do so, she founded an organization called the Lucifer Trust, which was later changed to the Lucis Trust, which works with the United Nations and publishes their material. Theosophy has such close ties with the UN that they have their own meditation room inside the UN Building.
If you actually look into it, however, Helena Blavatsky mentioned many times that she basically worshiped Satan/Lucifer and viewed him as a force for good. What's even more significant is that in Theosophy, they have the idea that all religious figures, such as Jesus and Buddha, etc., were actually manifestations of one man, called Maitreya. They believe that Maitreya is going to return sometime in the future and bring world peace, unite the entire world, etc. They also believe that Maitreya is given his power through a spirit called Sanat Kumara. They stated themselves that Sanat is purposely a rearranging of the letters in Satan, and this concept of him giving power to Maitreya seems to fit in with Satan giving power to the Antichrist... The Bible also states that the Antichrist will declare himself to be God and force everyone to worship him, which is basically what Maitreya is supposed to do.
Even with all of that aside, in the past Theosophy actually was what gave Hitler a lot of his ideas, such as that some races were superior to others. One man who apparently knew him well even stated that he slept with Helena Blavatsky's book on his nightstand every night. I've also heard that he was initiated into it and that the Holocaust was basically a rehearsal for when Maitreya actually shows up on a smaller scale, but I'm not certain whether that particular piece of information is accurate.
So Theosophy was basically what gave birth to the whole New Age movement, which is where all of these ideas concerning 2012 and "awakening" and all of that are coming from. There's also this New Age idea about these different ages. They say that we're currently in the Age of Pisces, and that we're about to enter the Age of Aquarius. Well, according to their own astrology, the Age of Aquarius isn't even supposed to come for another century. Apparently they just decided to change their minds, because now it's supposed to come in 2012. In the Age of Aquarius, world peace is supposed to come, and humans will "evolve to the next level of consciousness," according to some people.
My main point is this: Look at where these ideas about 2012 are originating from. The Theosophists have stated that they basically want to create a New World Order. They're working with the United Nations right now. What seems to be much more likely than either the end of the world or a great awakening is that we're being led to believe these things about 2012, so that the New World Order can show up and tell us it's the fulfillment of the prophecy and that they're going to give us world peace. They could also easily fake a lot of things with technology; some people think that they may create a fake alien invasion someday and convince everyone that the whole world needs to unite to fight the aliens.
I don't know whether or not anything like that actually will happen in 2012, but considering the origins of these ideas, it seems a lot more likely than any of these "psychic predictions" actually being true. They actually tried something nearly identical in the year 2000, which obviously failed. I don't know if anyone here has read a book called "The Stargate Conspiracy," but it explains basically what happened with that. People were being led to believe that the Egyptian gods were going to return in 2000, and this effort was being supported by the U.S. government and the CIA, not to mention the New Age leaders. There was a ceremony planned for the last day of 1999. At midnight, a capstone would be placed on the Great Pyramid and the Eye of Horus was going to be emblazoned on it with lasers. However, this ceremony was canceled by the Egyptian government, and the gods obviously didn't show up. Ridiculous as it was, a lot of people actually believed it was going to happen, just like with 2012. In fact, people who channeled spirits were making the exact same claims back then, and some of them merely changed the year on their websites from 2000 to 2012 when it failed the first time.
This is really just a summarization; I'm sorry if it got slightly off-topic but I normally try to point some of this out when discussing 2012. I guess in posting this I'm intending more for people who actually believe in 2012 to read it than people who already don't. If you really want to know the entire story behind it, though, there's a documentary called Aquarius: The Age of Evil which basically exposes all of it; it's been posted to YouTube if anyone's interested in seeing it.
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Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:23 pm
1999 2000 2012..
Whenever the world is supposed to end...
Really... what can you do about it? Nothing.
Most people don't get to choose when and how they die. Just consider this another one of those times where you may not get to choose.
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Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:56 pm
Anything can happen. And a huge calendar that has been 98% correct (only 100 when December 21 comes in the next two years and something happens) about worldly seasonal events is pretty convincing to me, but as for the world ending...maybe, maybe not. Though that day could be the day that all days become the same as seen now. Day and night are just as cold or just as hot. Could be the next proclaimed Ice Age.
And in a way Lucifer/Satan was/were a force for good but only that they test out freewill and willpower, etc. This would give way to our ability to accomplish greater good and no greater evil if the universe is truly controlled by a sentient force (which is completely possible as evident with us and the other things that live because of a group of atoms and such).
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Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:42 pm
I assume that you're talking about all of the 2012 buzz.
If that's the case, I've never actually seen a Mayan prophecy that said the world was literally going to end. There's some stuff about one age ending and another beginning, but that's hardly doom and gloom catastrophe stuff. Most of the predictions I've seen are insinuations that aren't really even based on what the Mayans said; they're just a hodgepodge of apocalypse scenarios that are being tied together around that date.
Then again, the Mayan calendar is essentially a celestial calendar. Maybe they knew something about the cosmos that we don't. It's a pretty accurate calendar and the end seems to coincide with a "galactic alignment". That seems as appropriate a time to end a cosmic cycle as any, I think. Still doesn't say anything about the end of the world.
If there's any truth to the idea at all, my money is on either (a) massive solar flare or CEM or (b) some kind of radiation burst originating somewhere around the center of the galaxy (maybe Sagittarius A?). We'll just have to wait and see.
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Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:00 pm
Oh God, the Y2K bug is STILL the silliest I ever heard of. Atleast the 2012 BS has a somewhat BETTER story to it.
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Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:56 pm
Cain Elite Anything can happen. And a huge calendar that has been 98% correct (only 100 when December 21 comes in the next two years and something happens) about worldly seasonal events is pretty convincing to me, but as for the world ending...maybe, maybe not. Though that day could be the day that all days become the same as seen now. Day and night are just as cold or just as hot. Could be the next proclaimed Ice Age. And in a way Lucifer/Satan was/were a force for good but only that they test out freewill and willpower, etc. This would give way to our ability to accomplish greater good and no greater evil if the universe is truly controlled by a sentient force (which is completely possible as evident with us and the other things that live because of a group of atoms and such). Well, the Mayan calendar definitely could have been predicting something. It's just that there are no legends from the ancient Maya that mention the end of the world or anything like that, or explain the significance of the date. It's not the calendar itself that I take issue with, it's the predictions that actually have nothing whatsoever to do with the calendar itself and are normally channeled from some sort of entities that I find suspicious. While I, for the most part, disagree with your second statement, I'd rather not turn this into a debate over something not exactly relative to the main topic. However, there is quite a large difference between your statement and doing something like deciding to basically pave the way for Satan to show up and take control over the world, for example.
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Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 6:27 pm
NorthEastFire Cain Elite Anything can happen. And a huge calendar that has been 98% correct (only 100 when December 21 comes in the next two years and something happens) about worldly seasonal events is pretty convincing to me, but as for the world ending...maybe, maybe not. Though that day could be the day that all days become the same as seen now. Day and night are just as cold or just as hot. Could be the next proclaimed Ice Age. And in a way Lucifer/Satan was/were a force for good but only that they test out freewill and willpower, etc. This would give way to our ability to accomplish greater good and no greater evil if the universe is truly controlled by a sentient force (which is completely possible as evident with us and the other things that live because of a group of atoms and such). Well, the Mayan calendar definitely could have been predicting something. It's just that there are no legends from the ancient Maya that mention the end of the world or anything like that, or explain the significance of the date. It's not the calendar itself that I take issue with, it's the predictions that actually have nothing whatsoever to do with the calendar itself and are normally channeled from some sort of entities that I find suspicious. While I, for the most part, disagree with your second statement, I'd rather not turn this into a debate over something not exactly relative to the main topic. However, there is quite a large difference between your statement and doing something like deciding to basically pave the way for Satan to show up and take control over the world, for example. As Obscurus said, there is suppose to be a galactic alignment. Maybe that's when this world ends and a new one begins. Only time will tell. Without evil, there is no idea of what is good or not. And sentient beings such as us are possible so why not have a larger being who is smarter or more advanced be possible as well? Past times prove that life can be any size from an ant to a dinosaur and still be complex enough yet powerful enough to effect the entire world.
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Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:06 pm
Obscurus I assume that you're talking about all of the 2012 buzz. If that's the case, I've never actually seen a Mayan prophecy that said the world was literally going to end. There's some stuff about one age ending and another beginning, but that's hardly doom and gloom catastrophe stuff. Most of the predictions I've seen are insinuations that aren't really even based on what the Mayans said; they're just a hodgepodge of apocalypse scenarios that are being tied together around that date. Then again, the Mayan calendar is essentially a celestial calendar. Maybe they knew something about the cosmos that we don't. It's a pretty accurate calendar and the end seems to coincide with a "galactic alignment". That seems as appropriate a time to end a cosmic cycle as any, I think. Still doesn't say anything about the end of the world. If there's any truth to the idea at all, my money is on either (a) massive solar flare or CEM or (b) some kind of radiation burst originating somewhere around the center of the galaxy (maybe Sagittarius A?). We'll just have to wait and see. My money is with you as well.
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Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:22 pm
DING DING DING Wake up call kiddies! GOD AND SATAN AREN'T REAL.
So that basically cancels out every single bit of bullshit "God" theory. As for Solar Flares? Already happens alot. CEM? The ******** is that? Earth has been throught alot, and we will continue. The world will end only after we nuke the s**t out of each other so many times the Earth just... Breaks. Humanity loves to kill, its a greedy power hungry b***h. We are the end of ourselves, not some bullshit "Gods" or "Prophecies" The Mayans didn't even have half the tech we do nowadays. How the hell can ANYONE understand when the world will end; oh yeah thats righ, we can't.
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Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:26 pm
Positive Balance DING DING DINGWake up call kiddies! GOD AND SATAN AREN'T REAL. i wouldn't exactly count on that...
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Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:03 pm
Cain Elite Anything can happen. And a huge calendar that has been 98% correct (only 100 when December 21 comes in the next two years and something happens) about worldly seasonal events is pretty convincing to me, but as for the world ending...maybe, maybe not. Though that day could be the day that all days become the same as seen now. Day and night are just as cold or just as hot. Could be the next proclaimed Ice Age. And in a way Lucifer/Satan was/were a force for good but only that they test out freewill and willpower, etc. This would give way to our ability to accomplish greater good and no greater evil if the universe is truly controlled by a sentient force (which is completely possible as evident with us and the other things that live because of a group of atoms and such). So? The gregorian callendar (The one we use) is accurate 100% of the time and iit ends this year.
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Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:07 pm
Arcane_Ninja24 Positive Balance DING DING DINGWake up call kiddies! GOD AND SATAN AREN'T REAL. i wouldn't exactly count on that...
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Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:09 pm
Arcane_Ninja24 Positive Balance DING DING DINGWake up call kiddies! GOD AND SATAN AREN'T REAL. i wouldn't exactly count on that... Oh yes, fairies and demons are real. Do you also believe in the bloody Easter Bunny? If God and Satan exist, them I'm a hybrid of David Spade and Jimmy Craig. And I'm not a ********' hybrid of any sort.
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Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:29 pm
Positive Balance Arcane_Ninja24 Positive Balance DING DING DINGWake up call kiddies! GOD AND SATAN AREN'T REAL. i wouldn't exactly count on that... Oh yes, fairies and demons are real. Do you also believe in the bloody Easter Bunny? If God and Satan exist, them I'm a hybrid of David Spade and Jimmy Craig. And I'm not a ********' hybrid of any sort. Goddamn man, your angst is almost palpable. Oh, to be a pissed-off naive teenager again...
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