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Captain_Shinzo

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:37 pm


Discuss whether the Islamic church being built in New York near the happening of 9/11 should be built or not.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:47 pm


In my opinion:

Islam did not crash planes into the twin towers. Specific members of a specific terrorist group committed the act.
I can understand the fear of a societal backlash, but I do not wish to support ignorance by bending to its will; I would rather fight ignorance. I think the people of New York - and of North America - should be given the chance to demonstrate their tolerance. I hold out with hope.

Echo Ligeia


Chieftain Twilight

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:01 pm


it goes beyond any of that though.

look, in my opinion, they should have realized they were gonna be met with hatred and bigotry when they made these plans, and that any hope of that Mosque being a symbol of Peace and Love between religions would be naieve at best.

that said, now that they HAVE made these decision, it is simply a matter of Civil Rights. it is, by teh First Amendment, their Right to built it their, and nobody can stop them, or SHOULD stop them! they have a RIGHT to build it there!

the arguments against it being built are nothing more than christian people being upset that an Islamic symbol is being built next to a site that was bombed by terrorists in the name of Islam. reverend canter litterally admitted that these people have the right and that it would be unamerican to deny them this right "but come on", as he put it. that was his argument against it being built.

this doesn't even need to be debated, it's an UNALIENABLE RIGHT.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:01 pm


I believe this is Manhattan's deal, and they should be the people to decide what should be done instead of all these other people trying to jump in on this.
9/11 may have been largely accepted as a national tragedy, but the true tragedy is that it was a great fall for Manhattan. The 9/11 incident happened in Manhattan, it's victims were mostly Manhattaners, and the mosque is being built in Manhattan.

But if I had to choose, I'd have to say that allowing the community center/mosque to be built shouldn't be that big of a deal. Sure, it's next to Ground Zero. However, why is that a problem? Last I checked, Islam =/= Terrorism. Not to mention there is another mosque, Christian, built only four more blocks close to where they want this built at. If the problem is just having a building nearby 'so close', then what do you call the other mosque near it?
I just see no reason to not build it, so it might as well be built.

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Chieftain Twilight

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:28 pm


it doesn't matter what the majority thinks in this case, because it's a matter of Constitutional Rights. same as desegregating the Military, same as Women Votes, it's unAmerican to deny these people their right to Religious Freedom, and to build where they have all th eright.

i believe in the American values of Liberty, Equality, and Justice. and i intend to uphold them, and to remind others to do th esame.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:28 pm


I don't think it's a smart move on their part. My mom called it 'a slap in the face' and she's not the least tolerant you can get. There's people there who are going to be really uncomfortable with it, not just because they're Christian, but because they've known somebody who has died in 9/11. The Muslims might have the right to build it, but I think it's disrespectful.

One of the articles on the people's reactions: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/nyers_wage_jihad_vs_wtc_mosque_UgJiOBYEhrSOw4Q6hpvbQL

xxEverBluexx

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Chieftain Twilight

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:35 pm


xxEverBluexx
I don't think it's a smart move on their part. My mom called it 'a slap in the face' and she's not the least tolerant you can get. There's people there who are going to be really uncomfortable with it, not just because they're Christian, but because they've known somebody who has died in 9/11. The Muslims might have the right to build it, but I think it's disrespectful.

One of the articles on the people's reactions: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/nyers_wage_jihad_vs_wtc_mosque_UgJiOBYEhrSOw4Q6hpvbQL


:nods.: part of my point was that it was incredibly unwise of them to do it. still, it's their right. yeh, americans will take offense at it, and admittedly it's understandable.

the initial reactions of hatred and warmongering revenge at the actual happening of 9/11 were not understandable, they were simply hateful xenophobic reactions. but given what has transpired, to build a Mosque on the site is in fact more than a little insensitive to the emotions of american people, Muslim or not.

while i understand that they had good intentions, i still say that those intentions were naieve and not well thought-out.

regardless, they have every right to build. i know i am being repetitive, but it's all that needs be said. and it seems to be needed to be said alot.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:01 am


Normally I'm not an Obama fan but I actually applauded him for having the balls to stand there and say that Muslims have the same rights as the rest of Americans. Like Twilight, I'm of the opinion we were built on religious freedom, that this was the big next step forward in healing and the fact that so many people are offended by it and taking the wrong message blows my mind.

Obama had to go and ruin it later by telling democrats that maybe the Muslim center should be built elsewhere. I was so proud of him until that. ******** politics.

I pose to you this question also...what if in Afghanistan they raised this same sort of shitstorm if we tried to build Christian churches, because Christians bombed them? Every Christian nation is going to suddenly rise up and say not all Christians are extremists and look at the whole issue as being as ridiculous as everyone should look at this issue of the Islamic Center right now.

Lateralus es Helica

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Artto

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:46 am


What I heard on the Daily Show:

1. It's not a mosque, it's an islamic cultural center.
2. It's being built in an old coat factory.
3. It's being built 2 blocks away from ground zero, not at ground zero.

It's not as big of a deal as some would like to say.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:35 am


Artto
What I heard on the Daily Show:

1. It's not a mosque, it's an islamic cultural center.
2. It's being built in an old coat factory.
3. It's being built 2 blocks away from ground zero, not at ground zero.

It's not as big of a deal as some would like to say.


You might want to add to that there's strip clubs and sex shops closer to ground zero than the center.

(There is a mosque supposed to be in the center, but as you said it's not solely a mosque.)

Lateralus es Helica

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Call Me Apple

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:35 am


Artto
What I heard on the Daily Show:

1. It's not a mosque, it's an islamic cultural center.
2. It's being built in an old coat factory.
3. It's being built 2 blocks away from ground zero, not at ground zero.

It's not as big of a deal as some would like to say.


EXACTLY! At first, I was not for this Mosque being built because as media tells us, i thought it would be AT ground Zero. I feel nothing should ever be built there.

When i found out the exact location, the old Burlington Coat factory, I felt this was -yet another- attempt at blocking Mosques from being built.

It's going to be for the whole community.
ITS GOING TO HAVE A POOL PEOPLE wahmbulance
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:08 pm


Call Me Apple
Artto
What I heard on the Daily Show:

1. It's not a mosque, it's an islamic cultural center.
2. It's being built in an old coat factory.
3. It's being built 2 blocks away from ground zero, not at ground zero.

It's not as big of a deal as some would like to say.


EXACTLY! At first, I was not for this Mosque being built because as media tells us, i thought it would be AT ground Zero. I feel nothing should ever be built there.

When i found out the exact location, the old Burlington Coat factory, I felt this was -yet another- attempt at blocking Mosques from being built.

It's going to be for the whole community.
ITS GOING TO HAVE A POOL PEOPLE wahmbulance


xd Apple, yer awesome.

but yeh, hurray for the Daily Show, Colbert Report, Hardball, Rachel Maddow Show, and Lou Dobbs. =w=

Chieftain Twilight

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xxEverBluexx

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:48 pm


Lateralus es Helica
Like Twilight, I'm of the opinion we were built on religious freedom, that this was the big next step forward in healing and the fact that so many people are offended by it and taking the wrong message blows my mind.

Just one thing: These people have lost friends and family. Because of extremists. Whose reason is their religion.

Yes, those people were practicing their religion wrong, but I don't think it's entirely outrageous for people who have lost someone to that, especially if they're still grieving, to be offended by this. It takes an incredible amount of maturity to forgive, even after years.

This is from the link I posted: "That is a burial ground," said retired FDNY Deputy Chief Al Santora, referring to the fact that victims' remains were scattered for blocks.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:15 pm


xxEverBluexx
Lateralus es Helica
Like Twilight, I'm of the opinion we were built on religious freedom, that this was the big next step forward in healing and the fact that so many people are offended by it and taking the wrong message blows my mind.

Just one thing: These people have lost friends and family. Because of extremists. Whose reason is their religion.

Yes, those people were practicing their religion wrong, but I don't think it's entirely outrageous for people who have lost someone to that, especially if they're still grieving, to be offended by this. It takes an incredible amount of maturity to forgive, even after years.

This is from the link I posted: "That is a burial ground," said retired FDNY Deputy Chief Al Santora, referring to the fact that victims' remains were scattered for blocks.

However, it's not even ON Ground Zero. It's only near. It's not even fully a mosque, but more of a community center. Even if people are offended that Islamic people are near this area, they should consider that not all Muslims are the same.
I mean, this is just like them trying to build the Mosque in Tennessee or whatever. People had a fit then, they just didn't have much of a good reason compared to the reasons to this motion. It's pretty much a phobia to Islams, and even if you ARE a friend/family of a victim of 9/11, I'm pretty sure a decade would be enough to understand that Muslims aren't to blame, just Muslim extremists. Pain for the past shouldn't be a reason for hate.

Captain_Shinzo

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Call Me Apple

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:31 pm


xxEverBluexx
Lateralus es Helica
Like Twilight, I'm of the opinion we were built on religious freedom, that this was the big next step forward in healing and the fact that so many people are offended by it and taking the wrong message blows my mind.

Just one thing: These people have lost friends and family. Because of extremists. Whose reason is their religion.

Yes, those people were practicing their religion wrong, but I don't think it's entirely outrageous for people who have lost someone to that, especially if they're still grieving, to be offended by this. It takes an incredible amount of maturity to forgive, even after years.

This is from the link I posted: "That is a burial ground," said retired FDNY Deputy Chief Al Santora, referring to the fact that victims' remains were scattered for blocks.


If it was anything else in that old Coat Factory building, no one would care.
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