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FortunaStoryteller

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:51 pm


Just curious here. I'm personally one who loves to think about universal happiness and peace, and so I'm wondering what sort of steps we as a global society have to do to achieve that.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:56 pm


Step 1 Ending Poverty

Step 2 Improve worldwide education

Step 3 Teach people to love being alive

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:16 pm


No People....

Well, seriously, I think the elimination of selfishness, and the ability to stop natural disasters. I don't see that happening in my lifetime...

I guess we will just have to educate people, and hope that they see that the more we take care of each other, the less room there will be for hostility and jealousy.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:19 pm


angry people in general but why are people angry ya know? its a complex situation to where people would have to be removed but that wouldn't really make anything better because more people would be angered by that. We cant all be equal cause in different peoples eyes we aren't.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:33 pm


This pickled vegetable...

Kill everything.
If there's no sapient life then there's no hatred or discrimination.

... could kick your a** !!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:39 pm


Ending capitalism, establishing equality. If we stop putting pointless imaginary values on things and simply produce and consume as equals, with no idiotic markets or ownership of the means of production, or no such thing as profit to cut corners to achieve, there will be no need to fight over land, resources, trade deals or to support an economy through military contracts and the war industry.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:55 pm


Oh my gosh... Where to start? But for one thing all of the terrorists would have to dissapear. Every one of them, every type. Not just the ones who blow up buildings, but even the ones who talk down to people and harass people for being themselves.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:55 pm


The elimination of evil from the human soul.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:58 pm


xxEternallyBluexx
The elimination of evil from the human soul. Some systems might work better then others, but as it is right now, world peace is probably impossible.
This pickled vegetable...

"Evil" is an ambiguous term. Moral concepts of what's "good" and what's "evil" are subjective and change from culture to culture.

Who are you to say what is and isn't evil?

... could kick your a** !!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:12 pm


Renkon Root
xxEternallyBluexx
The elimination of evil from the human soul. Some systems might work better then others, but as it is right now, world peace is probably impossible.
This pickled vegetable...

"Evil" is an ambiguous term. Moral concepts of what's "good" and what's "evil" are subjective and change from culture to culture.

Who are you to say what is and isn't evil?

... could kick your a** !!

I'm just saying what I think. I don't believe morality is subjective. I'm not labeling anything as good or evil, but even if I was, if morality's subjective then there wouldn't be anything wrong with me doing so. If morality isn't subjective, then there's nothing wrong with me acting like it's not.

I think, if no one did wrong, we'd have a perfect world.

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divineseraph

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:24 pm


There seems to be a disconnection between cause and effect with some of these answers. I see "Terrorists have to disappear" and "People stop being evil"- But what is neglected is the reason FOR their actions. One must consider that every person, assuming sanity, has motivations. Terrorists are not simply terrorists as a vocation, they have an agenda. And with Al Queda, it is more noble than you may think.

This is not to say that terrorists are good and that 9/11 was awesome. What I am saying is that they have a political, secular reason for hating us, which stems from our military action and aiding of their enemies, which stems from our capitalistic greed and want for economic power through military contracts.

So it's not simply a matter of making evil "go away". We need to stop doing what we are doing wrong in order to prevent other people in other countries from hating us. We need to stop aiding their enemies, we need to stop setting up puppet governments and assassinating their leaders, we need to stop being worldwide dicks.

Every effect has a cause. Our evil, our problems, are rippling reverberations of our actions. Therefore, the problem lies not in the effect, but in the cause that creates the effect to occur in the first place.

This is known as Karma. It's all happening.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:48 pm


Reminds me of a post I made a while back.

Quote:
Generally when you see any sort of conflict between two people, the stem source is some sort of emotion that has a negative connotation to it. Anger, hurt, jealousy, etc. The same's true of war. Let's take the Afghanistan war, a decade ago. When we first declared war, the issuance was because of the hurt, loss, and anger associated with our country being attacked and lives taken. Depending on what you believe happened on that day, you can go ahead and get rid of the group in the first place but it doesn't matter. If any group were to perform the same action, our reaction would be similar.

So if you want to get rid of war, you have to get rid of all the 'negative' parts of our psyche, those emotions which could potentially lead us down the path to war. Unless you plan on doing some serious brain washing and drug therapy which prohibits the release of hormones that cause such emotions, you're going to have to learn that it's just a part of our condition.


That being said, I'm not against taking reasonable measures to prevent such things from happening in the first place. If the bottom line, the root source of conflict on a personal or even global scale is negative behavioral patterns, you do what you can to keep those patterns from either arising or teach people to keep them under control. I'm more for the second. Any measures to suppress such behaviors or emotions in the first place are downright questionable when it comes to issues of morality.

What I believe should happen is first, acknowledge that YES, people DO feel negative emotions and have the desire to act upon them. The key, however, is teaching people how to deal with those emotions. Teach them to recognize when they are feeling them and channel them in a more appropriate manner, one that doesn't involve violent conflict.

The thing is, that's something you can't teach directly. You can tell little Timmy not to hit Jerry when he gets mad all you want. Those types of lessons people learn indirectly through the behavior of their peers and authority figures. If Timmy's dad constantly hits Timmy's mom every time he gets mad, it's reasonable to assume Timmy just might not listen when someone tells him not to use violence when he gets mad and will use it anyways. This is something that cannot be taught unless it is lived and shown by example.

Granted, there's always exceptions to the rules. There's some people that just defy the laws of normal behavioral patterns. You start to get to that razor edge of whether or not an action is moral once you start discussing ways in which to deal with such exceptions. If enough exceptions get treated a certain way, someone somewhere is going to start questioning whether or not we deal with all people that way.

Now I'm not saying world peace is impossible, but extremely difficult. There's no way to set up that 'perfect world' that everyone seems to want. All you can do is live life as an example and teach what you can to others. I think in such a case it would be especially important to set an example for children, try to teach them the lessons to live a peaceful life before behavioral patterns truly set in. It's not the ultimate solution, but it's what little we as individuals can do.

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divineseraph

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:52 pm


Lateralus es Helica
Reminds me of a post I made a while back.

Quote:
Generally when you see any sort of conflict between two people, the stem source is some sort of emotion that has a negative connotation to it. Anger, hurt, jealousy, etc. The same's true of war. Let's take the Afghanistan war, a decade ago. When we first declared war, the issuance was because of the hurt, loss, and anger associated with our country being attacked and lives taken. Depending on what you believe happened on that day, you can go ahead and get rid of the group in the first place but it doesn't matter. If any group were to perform the same action, our reaction would be similar.

So if you want to get rid of war, you have to get rid of all the 'negative' parts of our psyche, those emotions which could potentially lead us down the path to war. Unless you plan on doing some serious brain washing and drug therapy which prohibits the release of hormones that cause such emotions, you're going to have to learn that it's just a part of our condition.


That being said, I'm not against taking reasonable measures to prevent such things from happening in the first place. If the bottom line, the root source of conflict on a personal or even global scale is negative behavioral patterns, you do what you can to keep those patterns from either arising or teach people to keep them under control. I'm more for the second. Any measures to suppress such behaviors or emotions in the first place are downright questionable when it comes to issues of morality.

What I believe should happen is first, acknowledge that YES, people DO feel negative emotions and have the desire to act upon them. The key, however, is teaching people how to deal with those emotions. Teach them to recognize when they are feeling them and channel them in a more appropriate manner, one that doesn't involve violent conflict.

The thing is, that's something you can't teach directly. You can tell little Timmy not to hit Jerry when he gets mad all you want. Those types of lessons people learn indirectly through the behavior of their peers and authority figures. If Timmy's dad constantly hits Timmy's mom every time he gets mad, it's reasonable to assume Timmy just might not listen when someone tells him not to use violence when he gets mad and will use it anyways. This is something that cannot be taught unless it is lived and shown by example.

Granted, there's always exceptions to the rules. There's some people that just defy the laws of normal behavioral patterns. You start to get to that razor edge of whether or not an action is moral once you start discussing ways in which to deal with such exceptions. If enough exceptions get treated a certain way, someone somewhere is going to start questioning whether or not we deal with all people that way.

Now I'm not saying world peace is impossible, but extremely difficult. There's no way to set up that 'perfect world' that everyone seems to want. All you can do is live life as an example and teach what you can to others. I think in such a case it would be especially important to set an example for children, try to teach them the lessons to live a peaceful life before behavioral patterns truly set in. It's not the ultimate solution, but it's what little we as individuals can do.


That's neglecting Al Queda's motivations, however. Our motivation to attack them was 9/11. Their motivation to attack us was our military actions in the middle east. Our motivation for military support of Israel and general double-dealing in the middle east was money and global economic power. Our reason for this is because our economic system rewards those with money and power by giving them luxury.

Therefore, the core of our problems is our greed, and our greed is only able to manifest in the capitalist system that rewards double-dealing, lying, cheating, starting wars and controlling other governments for cheap labor and trade.

It's not simply a "Someone feels bad about something" in a vacuum, as implied in this post- It ignored entirely all the actions of the past, which have built up to make today.

My point here is that it's not a matter of not feeling bad, it's about manipulating our system so that there's no reward or benefit to making others feel bad.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:10 pm


divineseraph
Lateralus es Helica
Reminds me of a post I made a while back.

Quote:
Generally when you see any sort of conflict between two people, the stem source is some sort of emotion that has a negative connotation to it. Anger, hurt, jealousy, etc. The same's true of war. Let's take the Afghanistan war, a decade ago. When we first declared war, the issuance was because of the hurt, loss, and anger associated with our country being attacked and lives taken. Depending on what you believe happened on that day, you can go ahead and get rid of the group in the first place but it doesn't matter. If any group were to perform the same action, our reaction would be similar.

So if you want to get rid of war, you have to get rid of all the 'negative' parts of our psyche, those emotions which could potentially lead us down the path to war. Unless you plan on doing some serious brain washing and drug therapy which prohibits the release of hormones that cause such emotions, you're going to have to learn that it's just a part of our condition.


That being said, I'm not against taking reasonable measures to prevent such things from happening in the first place. If the bottom line, the root source of conflict on a personal or even global scale is negative behavioral patterns, you do what you can to keep those patterns from either arising or teach people to keep them under control. I'm more for the second. Any measures to suppress such behaviors or emotions in the first place are downright questionable when it comes to issues of morality.

What I believe should happen is first, acknowledge that YES, people DO feel negative emotions and have the desire to act upon them. The key, however, is teaching people how to deal with those emotions. Teach them to recognize when they are feeling them and channel them in a more appropriate manner, one that doesn't involve violent conflict.

The thing is, that's something you can't teach directly. You can tell little Timmy not to hit Jerry when he gets mad all you want. Those types of lessons people learn indirectly through the behavior of their peers and authority figures. If Timmy's dad constantly hits Timmy's mom every time he gets mad, it's reasonable to assume Timmy just might not listen when someone tells him not to use violence when he gets mad and will use it anyways. This is something that cannot be taught unless it is lived and shown by example.

Granted, there's always exceptions to the rules. There's some people that just defy the laws of normal behavioral patterns. You start to get to that razor edge of whether or not an action is moral once you start discussing ways in which to deal with such exceptions. If enough exceptions get treated a certain way, someone somewhere is going to start questioning whether or not we deal with all people that way.

Now I'm not saying world peace is impossible, but extremely difficult. There's no way to set up that 'perfect world' that everyone seems to want. All you can do is live life as an example and teach what you can to others. I think in such a case it would be especially important to set an example for children, try to teach them the lessons to live a peaceful life before behavioral patterns truly set in. It's not the ultimate solution, but it's what little we as individuals can do.


That's neglecting Al Queda's motivations, however. Our motivation to attack them was 9/11. Their motivation to attack us was our military actions in the middle east. Our motivation for military support of Israel and general double-dealing in the middle east was money and global economic power. Our reason for this is because our economic system rewards those with money and power by giving them luxury.

Therefore, the core of our problems is our greed, and our greed is only able to manifest in the capitalist system that rewards double-dealing, lying, cheating, starting wars and controlling other governments for cheap labor and trade.

It's not simply a "Someone feels bad about something" in a vacuum, as implied in this post- It ignored entirely all the actions of the past, which have built up to make today.

My point here is that it's not a matter of not feeling bad, it's about manipulating our system so that there's no reward or benefit to making others feel bad.


Greed itself at the root is an emotion with the same negative connotation attached to it that anger, sadness, etc. harbor. I spoke in extremely broad terms of course and that which we were capable of on an individual level.

On a higher level and especially governmental, there's a huge problem actually being able to manipulate the system in the manner which you speak. It would effectively require not only for those in power not to have greed themselves but at the same time those supporting them and giving them power not to have it.

Let's say for instance a ruler of one country decides he wants the timber from another for money. Now, effectively, his people COULD decide to say no, we won't let you do that, but what are they going to say when he turns around and promises them a percentage of the profit from the plunder? Those that did have the stance previously that it was morally wrong for him to act upon his greed in such a way may turn around when being faced with reward themselves.

Which, in my opinion, comes back to the behaviors individuals have. You can't effectively change such a large institution unless the people at large truly desire that change. Greed is perhaps the trickiest one especially in such a materialistic society. When we live in a society where a vast number of the people live on the assumption that the quality of their life is determined by wealth and the quality of material objects they own, it's extremely easy for those in charge to write off their own greed by turning around and appealing to the people's own sense of greed and materialism. You'll be hard-pressed to get them to change their minds if they've learned to act on the acquisition of wealth.

It all comes back once again to the behaviors and well let's throw in values that an individual has and has learned. Until a person can truly live otherwise, they're going to be incapable or just plain choose not to affect change that would lead to peace.

Lateralus es Helica

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