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 Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:32 pm
The title is pretty self-explanatory. I have been raised in a Roman Catholic household, not very strictly, but but very loyal to our beliefs and traditional practices such a baptism, first communion, confirmation, etc. Even though, I have been raised under the Catholic doctrine, I do not completely agree with all of the "official beliefs" of the church. I believe in the holy bible, but not with everything it says, after all, even though it is the word of God, it was still written by man, an imperfect being. I strongly disagree with gays suffering eternal damnation for their sexual preference; I believe God loves all his children and would not damn anyone for a mentality that can't be helped.
There are many things I don't completely agree with the church ,but for the most part I am loyal to my faith. I don't believe that there is one "true" faith, not even mine. I believe that the belief that there is one superior being out there is the only true faith, unless you're atheist, that's okay too. I believe all religions are all correct and incorrect in their own way and I believe in respecting all of them.
Discuss: Religion, Beliefs, God
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Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:52 am
I don't mind religion at all.
I was baptized a Roman Catholic as a kid, but I only went to church when it was mandatory (I went to Catholic schools all my life, not because I was religious but because the public schools are absolute s**t) and when I graduated, I never attended church again. I don't care either way for religion, really. For some people it helps them to cope with the loss of a friend or family member, or they enjoy the sense of community and identity it gives them to be with other members of that religion in a church or whatever. And that's fine. Some people don't like religion and think it's useless and don't care for it at all, and that's fine, too.
The thing is, I find people who tell me I'm stupid for not hating religion just as hateful as people who tell me I'm going to hell because I don't believe in their particular brand of god/religion. I find atheists to be just as amazingly ignorant and zealous as any religious fanatic in their attempts to browbeat, talk down to, and berate those who choose to practice religion at all. I don't understand why people on both sides of the fence can't just shut up and let each other live.
If you think someone is dumb because they believe in something they can't feel, see, hear, taste, touch, then fine. Believe they're dumb. But you don't have to yell at them or anything for it. Same goes for religious people. If you think I'm going to hell and my soul isn't saved, wonderful. But please don't scream at me and tell me how horrible I am because I didn't receive communion in your church or whatever.
Just like martial arts, there's no one religion "better" than the other, and atheism isn't "better" than religion overall. Each thing works for the individual who believes in it. If believing in a god/gods helps you to be a better person to your neighbor, helps you to be more active in your community, teaches you patience and kindness towards others, then I don't see why religion is bad. If you do NOT believe in a god/gods, and this pushes you to act on your own to help humankind, pushes you to help your neighbors and community because you don't believe divine intervention will do it, then I don't see why atheism is bad. Both things can help the individual to be a better person.
Also, inb4 "religion causes wars." No. Fanatics and power-hungry people of any kind cause wars, religious or atheist. Religion is just an excuse for land grabs (e.g. Crusades of the middle ages) and exercising of power over as many people as possible. Even without religion as an excuse, those seeking power will have started a war for more land and more citizens to their nations to tax.
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Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:38 am
Bleeding Apocalypse
Also, inb4 "religion causes wars." No. Fanatics and power-hungry people of any kind cause wars, religious or atheist. Religion is just an excuse for land grabs (e.g. Crusades of the middle ages) and exercising of power over as many people as possible. Even without religion as an excuse, those seeking power will have started a war for more land and more citizens to their nations to tax.
OMG yes. I become very annoyed with people who start going on about Christians (just in my personal experience) and how they are judgmental, stupid, cause wars etc etc etc. Yes, many are judgmental but many are not!
I am Christian (raised strict Lutheran, but am looking for another branch) and time and again I have been ridiculed, hated and yelled at for being judgmental over say, homosexuals, purely because I proclaim to be Christian. This is ridiculous and makes me so angry! They do not know me! They should take a look in the mirror *rants on and on*
So yes... my two cents. xd
I like to think I am very accepting of everyone and I also agree that people should be able to be with whoever they love. And, lets say that homosexuality is wrong (as the bible says), the bible also says we should not judge others. So there should not be any arguments to begin with!
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Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:29 am
LuvTyler13
OMG yes. I become very annoyed with people who start going on about Christians (just in my personal experience) and how they are judgmental, stupid, cause wars etc etc etc. Yes, many are judgmental but many are not!
I am Christian (raised strict Lutheran, but am looking for another branch) and time and again I have been ridiculed, hated and yelled at for being judgmental over say, homosexuals, purely because I proclaim to be Christian. This is ridiculous and makes me so angry! They do not know me! They should take a look in the mirror *rants on and on*
So yes... my two cents. xd
I like to think I am very accepting of everyone and I also agree that people should be able to be with whoever they love. And, lets say that homosexuality is wrong (as the bible says), the bible also says we should not judge others. So there should not be any arguments to begin with!
As a Catholic, we're taught that the Pope is infallible, but a quick scan through history, both religious and secular, shows that Popes certainly are fallible and act in very human ways. No human on Earth is perfect, and it is against even the nature of Christianity and its many offshoots to declare any human to be perfect (aside from, of course, Jesus who is both human and divine, whut). So it's confusing to say humans are not perfect, but then be taught that once you level up to Pope, you're perfect.
I'm Roman Catholic. My significant other is Lutheran. He's also a man. The idea that homosexuality is a no-no conflicts with my common sense and well-being, and his. Since we both can't claim to know, 100% for sure that there even IS an afterlife, we're just content to be the best people we can be while we're alive, and to what makes us happy, now. But within a responsible scope, of course. If robbing banks and punting kittens made us happy, that's a different thing all together. >>
Personally, I think the Bible should act as a general guideline on how to act. You shouldn't try to look for FACTS in a book based around faith. Also, the Bible declares (in the Old Testament) that mixing fabrics is forbidden and will send you to hell (no cotton/polyester blends or you'll burn!), and so will eating shellfish. Obviously, you'd be hard pressed today to find a person who thinks wearing mixed-fabric clothing will send you to hell, or is morally "impure." So I think the Bible should act as a very, very general guideline on how to behave (don't gossip, you wouldn't like it if it was done to you, don't lie, don't intentionally murder people, etc. etc.) but not to be a historical document. Even IF it has certain historical elements to it. It's like writing a fictionalized novel based on actual events.
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Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:48 pm
Quote: I don't mind religion at all. I was baptized a Roman Catholic as a kid, but I only went to church when it was mandatory (I went to Catholic schools all my life, not because I was religious but because the public schools are absolute s**t) and when I graduated, I never attended church again. I don't care either way for religion, really. For some people it helps them to cope with the loss of a friend or family member, or they enjoy the sense of community and identity it gives them to be with other members of that religion in a church or whatever. And that's fine. Some people don't like religion and think it's useless and don't care for it at all, and that's fine, too. The thing is, I find people who tell me I'm stupid for not hating religion just as hateful as people who tell me I'm going to hell because I don't believe in their particular brand of god/religion. I find atheists to be just as amazingly ignorant and zealous as any religious fanatic in their attempts to browbeat, talk down to, and berate those who choose to practice religion at all. I don't understand why people on both sides of the fence can't just shut up and let each other live. If you think someone is dumb because they believe in something they can't feel, see, hear, taste, touch, then fine. Believe they're dumb. But you don't have to yell at them or anything for it. Same goes for religious people. If you think I'm going to hell and my soul isn't saved, wonderful. But please don't scream at me and tell me how horrible I am because I didn't receive communion in your church or whatever. Exactly,I feel as thought an individual should be let to live the lifestyle they wish to pursue so as long as it doesn't interfere of invade the life of another. Just like being homosexual, religious or not, everyone should have the freedom to follow their belief and life style system. Sure, many people are gonna judge, and that's fine so as long as, like you said, they don't go n your face damning you to hell for living a particular life style. Quote:
OMG yes. I become very annoyed with people who start going on about Christians (just in my personal experience) and how they are judgmental, stupid, cause wars etc etc etc. Yes, many are judgmental but many are not!
I am Christian (raised strict Lutheran, but am looking for another branch) and time and again I have been ridiculed, hated and yelled at for being judgmental over say, homosexuals, purely because I proclaim to be Christian. This is ridiculous and makes me so angry! They do not know me! They should take a look in the mirror *rants on and on*
So yes... my two cents. xd
I like to think I am very accepting of everyone and I also agree that people should be able to be with whoever they love. And, lets say that homosexuality is wrong (as the bible says), the bible also says we should not judge others. So there should not be any arguments to begin with!
I agree with this as well, I believe hypocrisy is sometimes a natural human trait that can't be helped. Sometimes we like to judge others, without looking at our own flaws. No religion is perfect in my opinion, and like Bleeding implied no human being is perfect either, not even the pope. I believe that God is the only perfect being and he made us "imperfect" as a test in this life to see if the choices we make in life are worthy of his eternal afterlife, yes I believe in the afterlife. Of course not every choice is going to look right in the eyes of everyone, which is why I believe that only God is the only one who can solemnly judge our life.
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Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:16 am
I'm atheist. And yeah, that's about it.
I don't like to judge based on religion.
My best friend is christian.
I really don't know what else to say. :S
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Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:55 am
As of now I am atheist, I could believe in some higher being but I need significant proof. I dont impose my ideas or believes on others so long as others apply the same courtesy to me. Its my opinion that you may believe in what ever you think so long as it makes you happy. I dont think a religion is healthy if your just following it just for the sake of getting into some greater afterlife, I believe if someone has to follow one they should do so because it fulfills them.I also took it upon myself to try to study most if not all of the significant religions.
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Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:15 pm
I'm a baptized and comfirmed Catholic, but I'm not exrremely religious. I have a really scientific mind when it comes to explaining alot of phenomena the Church tries to explain (but I'm pro-life.) I also think it's ironic how the Church preaches peace, but throughout history, the Church's power was gained through war, tyranny, and fear. I hate "blind faith" as well. I am not a blind follower, and I'm angered when someone just listens to what the preacher says and doesn't analyze it on their own... That's what happened during the Dark Ages, but once it stopped with the printing of the Bible in vernacular languages, people started to read and interpret the Bible. I think everybody should do that. I studied alot on the philosophy of Voltaire; he spoke to a popular Enlightenment theory of deism, which is the equivalent of being a "spiritual person"- Believing in divine power without Catholic tradition. As I continue studying, I might become more of a deist. Alot of my Catholic belief was also based on the idea of fate; learning the basic idea of quantum mechanics sort of ruined that, too. I would go on about creationism vs. evolution, but I realized how long this is right at this moment... sweatdrop So I'll just say I believe God placed primitive creatures on this world, which then evolved. There. I'm done with my (somewhat) scholarly rant.
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:34 am
@Grace: I think "Deist" is quite possibly the best definition of the current track I'm on. I believe there is a god (whether it is the Judeo-Christian God, Vishnu, Dionysus, etc. is up for debate) that exists, by whichever name people call her/him/it.
I believe that there is something that just might beyond my scope of understanding as a human being. I don't think it might take very much to be considered a "god." If something is all-knowing, or simply knows more about how the universe works than I do, it might be a god. If it can live indefinitely, it might be a god. It might have a corporeal form, or it might have no body at all. It might be a singular entity or a collective consciousness. It may be something that's unique to our planet/species but is not unique to the universe at large (maybe other gods/beings/consciousnesses are attached to other planets/species for whatever reasons). But whatever it is, I believe it exists. It may take a great an almost fanatical interest in me as an individual or it may not even know or care that I exist. But I still think something more than human exists. And whatever that thing is, can be called a "god."
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:43 pm
Bleeding Apocalypse @Grace: I think "Deist" is quite possibly the best definition of the current track I'm on. I believe there is a god (whether it is the Judeo-Christian God, Vishnu, Dionysus, etc. is up for debate) that exists, by whichever name people call her/him/it.
I believe that there is something that just might beyond my scope of understanding as a human being. I don't think it might take very much to be considered a "god." If something is all-knowing, or simply knows more about how the universe works than I do, it might be a god. If it can live indefinitely, it might be a god. It might have a corporeal form, or it might have no body at all. It might be a singular entity or a collective consciousness. It may be something that's unique to our planet/species but is not unique to the universe at large (maybe other gods/beings/consciousnesses are attached to other planets/species for whatever reasons). But whatever it is, I believe it exists. It may take a great an almost fanatical interest in me as an individual or it may not even know or care that I exist. But I still think something more than human exists. And whatever that thing is, can be called a "god." Yea, this is pretty much deism or being a "spiritual" person. I think being an exceptionally intelligent person really interferes with being extremely devoted to a faith.
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:01 pm
Grace the Orgasmic Muffin Bleeding Apocalypse @Grace: I think "Deist" is quite possibly the best definition of the current track I'm on. I believe there is a god (whether it is the Judeo-Christian God, Vishnu, Dionysus, etc. is up for debate) that exists, by whichever name people call her/him/it.
I believe that there is something that just might beyond my scope of understanding as a human being. I don't think it might take very much to be considered a "god." If something is all-knowing, or simply knows more about how the universe works than I do, it might be a god. If it can live indefinitely, it might be a god. It might have a corporeal form, or it might have no body at all. It might be a singular entity or a collective consciousness. It may be something that's unique to our planet/species but is not unique to the universe at large (maybe other gods/beings/consciousnesses are attached to other planets/species for whatever reasons). But whatever it is, I believe it exists. It may take a great an almost fanatical interest in me as an individual or it may not even know or care that I exist. But I still think something more than human exists. And whatever that thing is, can be called a "god." Yea, this is pretty much deism or being a "spiritual" person. I think being an exceptionally intelligent person really interferes with being extremely devoted to a faith.
I think someone can be exceptionally intelligent and still be devoted to faith. Science and faith are two different things entirely, and knowledge of the physical world doesn't necessarily override connection to the spiritual world and vice versa. Else there would be no such thing as a geophysicist priest or an astronomer nun, etc. etc. A person can be extremely intelligent and full of worldly knowledge and participate in various schools of thought and still be religious. That last sentence of yours, even if it wasn't your intention, kind of says to me, "You must be stupid to be very devoted to religion," as if you cannot be intelligent and religious at the same time.
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Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:35 pm
Bleeding Apocalypse Grace the Orgasmic Muffin Bleeding Apocalypse @Grace: I think "Deist" is quite possibly the best definition of the current track I'm on. I believe there is a god (whether it is the Judeo-Christian God, Vishnu, Dionysus, etc. is up for debate) that exists, by whichever name people call her/him/it.
I believe that there is something that just might beyond my scope of understanding as a human being. I don't think it might take very much to be considered a "god." If something is all-knowing, or simply knows more about how the universe works than I do, it might be a god. If it can live indefinitely, it might be a god. It might have a corporeal form, or it might have no body at all. It might be a singular entity or a collective consciousness. It may be something that's unique to our planet/species but is not unique to the universe at large (maybe other gods/beings/consciousnesses are attached to other planets/species for whatever reasons). But whatever it is, I believe it exists. It may take a great an almost fanatical interest in me as an individual or it may not even know or care that I exist. But I still think something more than human exists. And whatever that thing is, can be called a "god." Yea, this is pretty much deism or being a "spiritual" person. I think being an exceptionally intelligent person really interferes with being extremely devoted to a faith.
I think someone can be exceptionally intelligent and still be devoted to faith. Science and faith are two different things entirely, and knowledge of the physical world doesn't necessarily override connection to the spiritual world and vice versa. Else there would be no such thing as a geophysicist priest or an astronomer nun, etc. etc. A person can be extremely intelligent and full of worldly knowledge and participate in various schools of thought and still be religious. That last sentence of yours, even if it wasn't your intention, kind of says to me, "You must be stupid to be very devoted to religion," as if you cannot be intelligent and religious at the same time. I didn't intentionally insult those who follow a religion; I was saying I personally struggle with this.
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:44 am
Grace the Orgasmic Muffin I didn't intentionally insult those who follow a religion; I was saying I personally struggle with this.
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:03 pm
Bleeding Apocalypse Grace the Orgasmic Muffin I didn't intentionally insult those who follow a religion; I was saying I personally struggle with this. Aah, yeah. I'm no good with words.
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Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:48 pm
Let people believe what they want. If they think something is real then let it be real.
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Reply
