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*Expletive deleted* Iron Chain... A Lesson{deck/ADV} Goto Page: 1 2 [>] [»|]

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armycat jockamoe

PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:22 pm


So something has come to my attention...

Well I guess I'll start with the usual problem this guild faces, lack of skill. While Jevan and I have had this fight before, Nature V. Nurture. Harsh reality V. Caring hand...

Well I lost my mod status and it's grown out of control.

It seems people idea of what to play and how to play it has become completely skewed. Case in point this and this. So look at those deck and their thread. Do you see my concern? Anyone? Nope? Ok.

1. People have been thinking sub par types are more than that.
2. Mixing themes... Ex. Gravekeeper, mill, burn deck. Iron Chain, Stall, Burn, Mill deck... ect. ect.
3. Everyone being adamant that their view is correct regardless of proof otherwise.

These all become evidently clear with a read through of the thread Chain Chaining Chains.

As for my point I'm here to give a lesson on tiers, logic, and to close with my deck which runs Iron Chains.

Lesson one: Tiers
Tiers are what separate the level of the decks played within the current metagame. Yugioh's tier system is typically broken into four categories tiers 0,1,2,and 3.

Now I will give a brief run down on each tiers level and what they include.

Tier 0: The top deck, near unbeatable unless beaten by the same deck. The current meta has no tier zero deck yet, although Infernity will probably take the slot. More often than not stopped or weakened by the banlist.

Example for the past would be: Tele-DAD

Tier 1: Tier 1 is the next highest. Size ranges from 2-6 decks which are seen to have the highest chance of winning a Shonen Jump and becoming the next tier zero. Sometimes hit and weakened by the banlist and relegated to tier two.

Example for this format would be :
Synchro Cat
Blackwing
Machina Gadget
Lightsworn (High end)

Tier 2: This tier is made up of decks that can and do win regions, but may not make any significant impact at a Shonen. Usually deck in this level fluctuate up to tier one and down to tier three based on the next banlist and what it changes.

Examples would be:
Absolute Zero Variants
Junk and Debris
Gladiator Beast
Anti-Meta

Tier 3: This is the fun deck tier. Local sometimes regional level decks. Most decks at this level will remain here until additional support comes out. Some have the ability to be low end tier two decks, but most fail to stay at that level. Usually unaffected by the banlist.

Examples include:
Morphtronic
Crystal Beast
Fortune Lady
X-Saber
Iron Chain
and many many more...

Lesson two: Logic, or who the ******** cares your 1/4 Japanese and "Privet school in japan xD" or are a "Vurtual reality maker for Gudam arcade games and others"

Seriously if you're tying to defend your play style and choices you logic that pertains to the game. Don;t try to one up you opponent with frivolous arguments that have no effect on how the game is played or whether or not your deck has credence. Because a lesson on basing arguments on logic and not horrendous amounts of bias, and personal belief that you're specific build of a tier three deck accomplishes something that the rest don't is far to tedious a task for me to devote the next year and a half too I'm just going to close this with an argument of Iron Chain with myself.

Me (Scrub Version): Man I sure love playing Iron Chain, burn, mill, stall!!! *Masturbates to his shitty deck idea furiously*

Me (Pro Version): Hey there pilgrim that's a class two felony right there. Put that pistol away and I'll teach you what was wrong with that there sentence.

Me (Scrub): What? What's wrong with my deck I've beaten LS and BW players with it.

Me (Pro): Well son, no you haven't. I'm sure you maybe beat a couple little kids who have fun LS and BW decks with it, and that's ok. I'm here though to tell you that your deck isn't really as good as you think it is though.

Me (Scrub): Yes it is.

Me (Pro): I'm sorry it's not. You see son, Iron Chain is a throwaway archetype that Konami used as set filler, while burn, mill, and stall haven't been above tier three since back in the double aught days.

Me (Scrub): What's a Te-Ear?

Me (Pro): Well scroll on up and see.

Me (Scrub): So what you're saying is that Iron Chain isn't good?

Me (Pro): Well yes, that doesn't however mean you can't play it. It just means you need to accept that it won't win you every game, especially against high level decks.

Me (Scrub): Oh I see, so I can play it I just have to acknowledge that it isn't the best... I can do that.

Me (Pro): There you go, so kid want some help making that fun deck better?

Me (Scrub): Sure I'll take whatever help you'll offer, thanks for helping me learn some basic logic, and teaching me about tiers.

Me (Pro): No problem kid. Well lets start first off, like I said burn, stall, and mill aren't very good. So lets drop those parts of the deck. Now see how Iron Chain Repairman can bring back a chain?

Me (Scrub): Yeah?

Me (Pro): Well he can bring back this three star tuner Iron Chain Coil and Synchro for a Seven Star. Now you're probably wondering how we'' get out Chain Dragon, but don't worry I have another dragon to help...

(They carry on for hours into the night as the boy learns the third lesson.)

Lesson three: Playable fun...

Me (Pro): Kid I don't what what we did but I'm dying.

Me (Scrub): What don't die, we did it, we make a playable fun deck.

Me (Pro): 4,5,6,7,8,9,10 kid the deck can summon them all. One more thing before I pass, remember you gotta be one of the good guys because there are too many of the bad ones. Burn forever little ember, I taught you to talk the talk, now get out there and walk the walk. (Dies)

Me (Scrub lv2): I will, thank you.

Memories: An opus of sorts...

Monsters: 21
Gorz The Emissary of Darkness x1
Cyber Dragon x2
Iron chain Repairman x3
Iron Chain Coil x3
Debris Dragon x3
Sangan x1
Card Trooper x1
Dandylion x2
Ryko Lightsworn Hunter x3
Treeborn Frog x2

Spells: 10
Pot of Avarice x2
Charge of The Light Brigade x1
Mystical space Typhoon x1
Giant Trunade x1
Heavy Storm x1
Reinforcement of The Army x1
Brain Control x1
Mind Control x1
Foolish Burial x1

Traps: 9
Raigeki Break x3
Bottomless Trap Hole x2
Torrential Tribute x1
Mirror Force x1
Call of The Haunted x1
Solemn Judgment x1

Extra: 15
AOJ Catastor x2
Brionic x1
Iron Chain Dragon x2
Goyo Guardian x1
Ancient Fairy Dragon x2
Black Rose Dragon x1
Stardust Dragon x2
Red Dragon Archfiend x1
Mist Wurm x1
Trident Dragion x1
Chimeratech Fortress Dragon x1

Side: 15
Morphing Jar x1
Hanewata x2
Night Assailant x1
Pot of Avarice x1
Soul Release x2
Starlight Road x2
Shadow Imprisoning Mirror x2
Pulling The Rug x2
Arcanite Magician x1
Stardust Dragon x1
Chimeratech Fortress Dragon x1

I hope you enjoyed this rant, lesson, and beginning of a new era in dueling culture. Questions, comments, concerns are always welcome and appreciated.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:09 pm


This is not meant in anyway to be an attack on any specific person, but more an attempt at improving the overall state of the guild.

armycat jockamoe


brotherofAnubus

Dangerous Survivor

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:48 pm


I agree with you that Iron Chains are a horrible archetype, but it is like that for a simple reason: A supreme lack of an archetype.

Iron Chains has a total of 4 Effect monsters (including 1 tuner) and a Synchro Monster. Along with one and a half support cards(half meaning it doesn't necessarily need the archetype to be workable). For an archetype like that to work you would have to incorporate other, more powerful archetypes into it, and even then it wouldn't make a strong enough deck. The only way for Iron Chains to ever be good would be for Konami to release a truckload of new cards for it, and even then I seriously doubt it would take off into the competitive circuit.

To be honest with you I believed at the time of its release and even now that the Iron Chains archetype was a functioning idea. It focuses on milling the opponent in an offensive style, rather than the usual stall/defensive style the format has been used to. It provides a more exciting way to deck an opponent out and, if that isn't enough, it has the potential to burn as well. It's milling effect can even turn a stall deck against itself (i.e: Poison Chain).

I personally believe Iron Chains have potential, it's just Konami needs to get off their asses and work on some more of the series!

Counter-argument Done...
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:57 pm


This is great and I love you.

I kinda found this out the hard way I guess, my first deck was a bunch of 1900 earth beat sticks and equips. Having equips made it where, if I were to get a level four and 3 axes of despair, it wouldn't be hard to beat most of my friends. So in this little group with the deck working that way, I felt it was good.

Then a friend made a black wing deck and the rest is history.

Now I use Blackwings and X Sabers as my top tier.

But I have, Destiny heros, morphtronics, batterymen, Ojama's even. For fun, I don't expect to get anywhere with them. Lol

Moosenstein


Aya_Aki_kun

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:18 am


just an fyi xsabers are a tier 3 armycat.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:01 am


brotherofAnubus
I agree with you that Iron Chains are a horrible archetype, but it is like that for a simple reason: A supreme lack of an archetype.

Iron Chains has a total of 4 Effect monsters (including 1 tuner) and a Synchro Monster. Along with one and a half support cards(half meaning it doesn't necessarily need the archetype to be workable). For an archetype like that to work you would have to incorporate other, more powerful archetypes into it, and even then it wouldn't make a strong enough deck. The only way for Iron Chains to ever be good would be for Konami to release a truckload of new cards for it, and even then I seriously doubt it would take off into the competitive circuit.

To be honest with you I believed at the time of its release and even now that the Iron Chains archetype was a functioning idea. It focuses on milling the opponent in an offensive style, rather than the usual stall/defensive style the format has been used to. It provides a more exciting way to deck an opponent out and, if that isn't enough, it has the potential to burn as well. It's milling effect can even turn a stall deck against itself (i.e: Poison Chain).

I personally believe Iron Chains have potential, it's just Konami needs to get off their asses and work on some more of the series!

Counter-argument Done...


One of my big problems with Iron Chain as a whole is that most of their effects gimp a deck that doesn't need it. Repairman loses his ability to attack when he brings a guy back. That cuts of one of, in my opinion, what would of been one of the decks better plays. Bring back Snake, equip, swing, mill for 4 plus.

Not to mention the horror of their spell and trap support. You get either pity burn, or pity mill seeing as you'll never have more than two chain monsters.

Don't get me started on how the theme can't pull out it's own boss.

Maybe if Konami gives them support they could be playable on their own, but then again they won't because they were a set filler one shot deck for a lame bad guy.

That's my take though.

armycat jockamoe


armycat jockamoe

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:05 am


Aya_Aki_kun
just an fyi xsabers are a tier 3 armycat.


That makes sense, fixed.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:24 am


Machina Gadgets are nowhere near Tier 1. Absolutely not.

Francine These Chocodiles



oucyan


Lavish Demigod

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:37 am


where would Tytanial be? this guy at my locals was gone 5-0 four weeks in a row with a Tytanial deck. Stomping everything from Machina gadgets to Blackwings to Glads to Anti-Meta.

also, great explanantion, very informative.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:40 am


axean
where is Camelia beats? this guy at my locals was gone 5-0 four weeks in a row with a Camelia deck. Stopping everything from Machina gadgets to Blackwings to Glads to Anti-Meta.
You mean Tytannial?

Plant variants are around the borderline tier 2-3. Sounds like your local's having a shitty time siding in those Zombie World.

Francine These Chocodiles



oucyan


Lavish Demigod

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:45 am


Freed the Benevolent
axean
where is Camelia beats? this guy at my locals was gone 5-0 four weeks in a row with a Camelia deck. Stopping everything from Machina gadgets to Blackwings to Glads to Anti-Meta.
You mean Tytannial?

Plant variants are around the borderline tier 2-3. Sounds like your local's having a shitty time siding in those Zombie World.


probally.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:05 am


Freed the Benevolent
Machina Gadgets are nowhere near Tier 1. Absolutely not.


Tier two?

armycat jockamoe



oucyan


Lavish Demigod

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:09 am


armycat jockamoe
Freed the Benevolent
Machina Gadgets are nowhere near Tier 1. Absolutely not.


Tier two?


i'd have to agree with tier 2, or at least borderline tier 2 and 1. at my locals they make top 8 sometimes, but usually stick around in top 16.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:32 am


axean
armycat jockamoe
Freed the Benevolent
Machina Gadgets are nowhere near Tier 1. Absolutely not.


Tier two?


i'd have to agree with tier 2, or at least borderline tier 2 and 1. at my locals they make top 8 sometimes, but usually stick around in top 16.
Borderline tier 2-3, if not closer to tier 3.

Machina's hype, the major reason it's had any showing at all is because of the unprepared state that a deck would have competitive potential on a local level would pop in as many numbers as they do. Adjust the side, and they fall apart.

Francine These Chocodiles



oucyan


Lavish Demigod

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:24 am


Freed the Benevolent
axean
armycat jockamoe
Freed the Benevolent
Machina Gadgets are nowhere near Tier 1. Absolutely not.


Tier two?


i'd have to agree with tier 2, or at least borderline tier 2 and 1. at my locals they make top 8 sometimes, but usually stick around in top 16.
Borderline tier 2-3, if not closer to tier 3.

Machina's hype, the major reason it's had any showing at all is because of the unprepared state that a deck would have competitive potential on a local level would pop in as many numbers as they do. Adjust the side, and they fall apart.


really? the only time i see them losing at my locals is when someone sides in system down or chimeratech fortress dragons.
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