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Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:17 pm
I have recently gone over an idea that has come to mind. As most religions I am familiar with state, an all powerful been created them. With that said, it is also known to be the greater being knowing everything and the creations left with little knowledge. So if this is the case, then how can we believe such a person to be a god as we know of? We have no possible idea of how intelligent a deity could be and how lowly our own intelligence is. If this is the case, how are we to believe the deity is truly of described definition? Could it be that god is just an all powerful metaphor for life? or a deity described as the creation of beginning? or a deity complete unlisted from all we know?
Discuss: Your own religion and fallacies of intelligence to a deity or belief.
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Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:58 pm
I have no idea what you are talking about.
I suit words to their definitions. A rose by any other name, and such. Likewise, something CALLED a rose that has no properties of a rose is not a rose. It's not that God is one specific idea of God- What God is, is God. That which is defined as God is God.
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:59 am
i don't see how a Creator God can't exist, or at the very least existed once. i wouldn't know so much about being omniprescent, omniscient and omnipotent, but i can't realy argue that it might be possible too. however, even if it is, it is probably either dedicated to not interfering with our lives, or else seriously doesn't care what the hell happens to us. i don't believe that whatever this being is is truely benevolent and kind and loving like so many religions claim it is. i would think that if it truely exists, it would have to be everything and nothing at once. beyond defnition or description, because to define it would be to break it down and compare it, and it can't be compared to anything.
or, perhaps this eing was once everything and nothing, but had shattered and fragmented, becoming so many different things both dark and light, and both kind and cruel, and both soft and hard, and both hot and cold, and so on. basically being a source beyond all definition, but exploading cataclysmically into everything, no longer existing anymore as a single omniprescent being, but rather everything was once part of it.
just a couple theories.
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:36 am
Aliens. It was definitely a highly advanced extraterrestrial life-form, there's archaeological evidence to back it up but just not enough people willing to entertain the idea.
Something so advanced so beyond our own understanding would seem like a God to us.
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:28 pm
divineseraph I have no idea what you are talking about. I suit words to their definitions. A rose by any other name, and such. Likewise, something CALLED a rose that has no properties of a rose is not a rose. It's not that God is one specific idea of God- What God is, is God. That which is defined as God is God. The question is more of perceiving any god correctly. A rose is consider a rose as it is said, but a rose could mean more than just some flower.
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:29 pm
This is a very interesting position to take upon religion I think the biggest flaw that we do have in the description of any higher power is in the fact that any reference we have to them is through old scriptures that have been translated 30 or more times.
I suppose then my question would be, how do we know that anything that has been written about religion is even factual if it has been translated by humans dozens of times.
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:42 pm
Captain_Shinzo divineseraph I have no idea what you are talking about. I suit words to their definitions. A rose by any other name, and such. Likewise, something CALLED a rose that has no properties of a rose is not a rose. It's not that God is one specific idea of God- What God is, is God. That which is defined as God is God. The question is more of perceiving any god correctly. A rose is consider a rose as it is said, but a rose could mean more than just some flower.That's not helping. At all.
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:25 pm
----If it does not fit the definition it is not that word, a God is a supreme being (ie. nothing is beyond it, therby it is completly metaphysical), and unless you want gabriel, zeus, quetzalcoatl, and various emperors to be classifiable as gods we cast away the inclusive definition (ie. any divine being who presides over worldly affairs) and accept the exclusive definition of a Supreme being often Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipressent, and Eternal / Uncreated (which is continuosly alluded to even if only in passing mention throughout the world, such as Ometeotl, Hiranyagarbha, Elohim, Allah, Bythos, Hunab K'u, Aten, Ahura Mazda, Oyagamisama, etc.)... ----so human beings by definition are almost it's antithesis, weak (we have no true control), foolish (Unwilling to grasp what is in front of us, or to learn from our mistake), can only be at one point at one time, we are born & we die... ----Aliens and sapient beings and beings whom have eaten from the fruit of life beings are no more than varieties of humans themselves, they are not Gods. This universe may be one of an infinite number of universes within the flexiverse (holographic principle), with an infinite number of flexiverses or "Membranes" in the multiverse (all of reality, without begining or end in time or space), and in each universe countless black holes containing singularities of infinitely curved spacetimes with no radius (what I call Black Hole Theology); at the will of an Īśvara known but not understood. ----A God residing in it's Nirvana, continuosly creating countless Geneses, that within each may be contained a multitude of humanities, with trees of life and knowledge (or Jiva and Atman), individual physical laws and Guf chambers, in their own cycles of Saṃsāra. ----In this Irony Nirvana & God may be the "Dream" & the "Womb" at the end of our "Reality" (Genesis), and vice versa, equally if not more real than Genesis itself. Maby certain humanities are capeable of undergoing Apotheosis and joining with God inside Nirvana into the "Dream", but maby those same beings have the choice to accept "Reality" & remain within Genesis. Do we each get a Saoshyant / Messiah / Bodhisattva? ----Maby god is Paramātmā? ----Random food for thought... Sorry for the lengthy non-sense...
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:17 pm
Mau Aita Dirac ----If it does not fit the definition it is not that word, a God is a supreme being (ie. nothing is beyond it, therby it is completly metaphysical), and unless you want gabriel, zeus, quetzalcoatl, and various emperors to be classifiable as gods we cast away the inclusive definition (ie. any divine being who presides over worldly affairs) and accept the exclusive definition of a Supreme being often Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipressent, and Eternal / Uncreated (which is continuosly alluded to even if only in passing mention throughout the world, such as Ometeotl, Hiranyagarbha, Elohim, Allah, Bythos, Hunab K'u, Aten, Ahura Mazda, Oyagamisama, etc.)... ----so human beings by definition are almost it's antithesis, weak (we have no true control), foolish (Unwilling to grasp what is in front of us, or to learn from our mistake), can only be at one point at one time, we are born & we die... ----Aliens and sapient beings and beings whom have eaten from the fruit of life beings are no more than varieties of humans themselves, they are not Gods. This universe may be one of an infinite number of universes within the flexiverse (holographic principle), with an infinite number of flexiverses or "Membranes" in the multiverse (all of reality, without begining or end in time or space), and in each universe countless black holes containing singularities of infinitely curved spacetimes with no radius (what I call Black Hole Theology); at the will of an Īśvara known but not understood. ----A God residing in it's Nirvana, continuosly creating countless Geneses, that within each may be contained a multitude of humanities, with trees of life and knowledge (or Jiva and Atman), individual physical laws and Guf chambers, in their own cycles of Saṃsāra. ----In this Irony Nirvana & God may be the "Dream" & the "Womb" at the end of our "Reality" (Genesis), and vice versa, equally if not more real than Genesis itself. Maby certain humanities are capeable of undergoing Apotheosis and joining with God inside Nirvana into the "Dream", but maby those same beings have the choice to accept "Reality" & remain within Genesis. Do we each get a Saoshyant / Messiah / Bodhisattva? ----Maby god is Paramātmā? ----Random food for thought... Sorry for the lengthy non-sense... it might be nonsense to some, but i actually enjoyed reading it, and feel like i realy learned something new that i already knew (if that makes sense to you). this is actually quite a treat. i think i will share this with my Guild... by the way, i think i'll invite you to said guild. ^_^
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 4:47 pm
Captain_Shinzo I have recently gone over an idea that has come to mind. As most religions I am familiar with state, an all powerful been created them. With that said, it is also known to be the greater being knowing everything and the creations left with little knowledge. So if this is the case, then how can we believe such a person to be a god as we know of? We have no possible idea of how intelligent a deity could be and how lowly our own intelligence is. If this is the case, how are we to believe the deity is truly of described definition? Could it be that god is just an all powerful metaphor for life? or a deity described as the creation of beginning? or a deity complete unlisted from all we know?
Discuss: Your own religion and fallacies of intelligence to a deity or belief. You know, that's one thing I've always wondered about. If there is a god, then how come we humans know so little? As an agnostic, I've always wondered why it is that people claim that they know exactly what "god" is. After all, all religions were written in books by many MEN. It's probably because of this that so many religions are patriarchial and treat women like crap.
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 5:49 pm
Quote: The Tao that can be followed is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal name. The nameless is the origin of heaven and earth While naming is the origin of the myriad things. Therefore, always desireless, you see the mystery. Ever desiring, you see the manifestations. Quote: Look for it, it cannot be seen. It is called the distant. Listen for it, it cannot be heard. It is called the rare. Reach for it, it cannot be gotten. It is called the subtle. These three ultimately cannot be fathomed. Therefore they join to become one. Its top is not bright; Its bottom is not dark; Existing continuously, it cannot be named and it returns to no-thingness. Thus, it is called the formless form, The image of no-thing. This is called the most obscure. Go to meet it, you cannot see its face. Follow it, you cannot see its back. Quote: Investigating it with a lot of talk Is not like holding to the center. Quote: The Tao as a "thing" is only vague and obscure. Quote: There is something that is perfect in its disorder Which is born before Heaven and Earth. So silent and desolate! It establishes itself without renewal. Functions universally without lapse. We regard it as the Mother of Everything. I don't know its name. Hence, when forced to name it, I call it "Tao." When forced to categorize it, I call it "great." Quote: The Tao is like a great flooding river. How can it be directed to the left or right? The myriad things rely on it for their life but do not distinguish it. It brings to completion but cannot be said to exist. Quote: Without going out the door, knowing everything, Without peaking out the windowshades, seeing the Way of Heaven. The further you go, the less you know. Quote: In studying, each day something is gained. In following the Tao, each day something is lost. Quote: There is nothing better than to know that you don't know. Not knowing, yet thinking you know- This is sickness. Only when you are sick of being sick Can you be cured. Quote: True words are not fancy. Fancy words are not true. The good do not debate. Debaters are not good. The one who really knows is not broadly learned, The extensively learned do not really know. There's a lot of quotes there from Charles Muller's translation of the Tao te Ching. I mention them all because they all serve to bring about one or two points each of their own. First of all, if you look at the text itself and not necessarily the religion (granted, this is an English translation who's language has been modified to give that same simplistic, poetic feel to an English audience.) you'll notice a lot of similarities between what is described as Tao and the properties those of various religions prescribe deities when you try to find proof of their existence. The big difference is that Tao is never actually labeled as a personified existence, it's the natural order and flow of all things, hence constantly being referred to as 'The Way'. The text constantly points out that the only way to even begin to understand this thing is to do...well... nothing. As humans we constantly divide and analyze, changing everything to suit our needs. It's been found in Quantum Physics that there truly is no such thing as the objective observer, that even the simple act of measuring changes a thing. In order to understand the true natural order beneath it all, that which is essentially the essence of all the world an what it is, you must let it all go. Do NOTHING, and things will return to their natural order. This is the ideal strived for by the ideal Taoist sage, a concept known as wu-wei or unattached action, under acting, or even the pursuit of no end. Even then, it's made adamantly clear that we actually know nothing, and to claim we do is to fool ourselves into untruth. The Tao te Ching is full of contradictions and paradoxes, but it is these very paradoxes which induce the correct state of mind to understand the Tao. The point of all of this is that you can't come right about to religion and dissect it with an analytical knife. The nature of God or deity to many religions is essentially the same as the Tao, unknowable. Many prescribe attributes to deities to make understanding them simpler to the basic human being, seeing as how it would be easier to relate to it, but the overall message is the same. You must let go of rationality and logic and in order to understand the inherent essence of that particular brand of spirituality. That doesn't mean I think they wouldn't all benefit from denying the absoluteness of their statements. It's like reading the traditional Little Red Riding Hood. You don't take it for literal truth, but you find the moral of the story or the essence of it and practice that. You don't say you absolutely know something when you know it's inherently unknowable.
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