Christianity... is it being divided?

[haruki_jitsunin]

I have recently been debating in the M&R about a variety of topics. These topics range from homosexuality being a sin to evolution being compatable with the bible. Now, before gaia, I just thought these things were kind of a cognate of christianity, that christians shouldn't debate eachother on these topics because the bible clearly states what is what on these topics. But as I was debating, I have noticed how far some people will go to justify homosexuality and the belief in evolution; and slowly I started to notice that these people are christians. That was surprising to me. Now what bothers me is not what they believe, but that they were willing to debate other christians over these issues.

This is the main paragraph...
Now don't get me wrong, i love debating just as much as the next guy, but what I dislike is that during these debates, it seemed as though we were enemies... What I can't understand is why. The core of christianity is love, so why debate over such trivial things? Why not try to spread the gospel through our love instead of wasting our time debating one another...Why must we debate? Is it right?

On a much broader sense is America suffering the same problem? What is america's goal? To offer a place for people to live in which they can be free to choose? Why then are we focused on inner conflicts instead of focusing on enemies we know we have? The roman empire fell for one main reason, all their freedom led to apathy... are we headed there next?

 

[Jedediah Smith]

haruki_jitsunin

I have recently been debating in the M&R about a variety of topics. These topics range from homosexuality being a sin to evolution being compatable with the bible. Now, before gaia, I just thought these things were kind of a cognate of christianity, that christians shouldn't debate eachother on these topics because the bible clearly states what is what on these topics. But as I was debating, I have noticed how far some people will go to justify homosexuality and the belief in evolution; and slowly I started to notice that these people are christians. That was surprising to me. Now what bothers me is not what they believe, but that they were willing to debate other christians over these issues.

This is the main paragraph...
Now don't get me wrong, i love debating just as much as the next guy, but what I dislike is that during these debates, it seemed as though we were enemies... What I can't understand is why. The core of christianity is love, so why debate over such trivial things? Why not try to spread the gospel through our love instead of wasting our time debating one another...Why must we debate? Is it right?

Correcting is important, the Apostle Paul did it and so did Jesus. Christianity is not only about love but its about following the Word of God. We cannot ignore heresy in the body of Christ. True Christians dont debate out of hate but out of love. There is always going to be wolfs in sleep clothing and the false teachings are going to effect are spiritual growth in Christ, literally.

"Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths." 2 Tim 4:2-4  

[hot_wheels_turbo_racing]

haruki_jitsunin

Now don't get me wrong, i love debating just as much as the next guy, but what I dislike is that during these debates, it seemed as though we were enemies... What I can't understand is why.

You were saying your point, and those whom you were speaking to didn't like what you had to say. In some places, that will get you being falsely accused being a troll.

haruki_jitsunin

The core of christianity is love, so why debate over such trivial things?

I don't believe there are "trivial things," and that every thing has some significance to it.

haruki_jitsunin

Why not try to spread the gospel through our love instead of wasting our time debating one another...Why must we debate? Is it right?

Yes, it is right, because otherwise, those others you've been talking to are going to keep on believing that homosexuality is right and evolution being compatable with the Bible. We know that's scripturally wrong, so unless one of us Christians who knows the truth points it out to those lost from the truth, they will never know the truth.  

[ioioouiouiouio]

haruki_jitsunin

I have recently been debating in the M&R about a variety of topics. These topics range from homosexuality being a sin to evolution being compatable with the bible. Now, before gaia, I just thought these things were kind of a cognate of christianity, that christians shouldn't debate eachother on these topics because the bible clearly states what is what on these topics. But as I was debating, I have noticed how far some people will go to justify homosexuality and the belief in evolution; and slowly I started to notice that these people are christians. That was surprising to me. Now what bothers me is not what they believe, but that they were willing to debate other christians over these issues.

It comes down to interpretations of the Bible. On homosexuality, quite alot follow the traditional stance (it's bad), however, there are those who subscribe to an Ananelic interpretation (go to the important information announcement) of the Bible where, in short, the word used as 'homosexual' in the english Bible, does not, in fact, mean homosexual. as for the evolution, if one looks litterally at the english translation of the Bible, then one would come to the belief in creation. However, when looking at the ancient hebrew, one would notice that the words used (what is translated to 'a day' in english is actually closer to 'an unknown amount of time that could be a day or longer') one would come to the conclusion that creation is far-fetched, to say the least.

Quote:

Now don't get me wrong, i love debating just as much as the next guy, but what I dislike is that during these debates, it seemed as though we were enemies... What I can't understand is why. The core of christianity is love, so why debate over such trivial things? Why not try to spread the gospel through our love instead of wasting our time debating one another...Why must we debate? Is it right?

Aside from the whole 'we are called to correct others where we see wrong' dealio... It's a debate. Yeah, sometimes it seems a little bit hostile.

Quote:

On a much broader sense is America suffering the same problem? What is america's goal? To offer a place for people to live in which they can be free to choose? Why then are we focused on inner conflicts instead of focusing on enemies we know we have? The roman empire fell for one main reason, all their freedom led to apathy... are we headed there next?

Of course we are. History repeats itself. We're just the next cycle of the cosmic loop, so to speak.  

[Sinner]

haruki_jitsunin

Why must we debate? Is it right?

This is simple. Without debate, discussion and other forms of intelligent discourse, how can we know what is right and what is wrong? If one person believes that the Bible says that homosexuality is wrong and another disagrees, debate is the key to determining which of them are correct.

haruki_jitsunin

On a much broader sense is America suffering the same problem? What is america's goal? To offer a place for people to live in which they can be free to choose? Why then are we focused on inner conflicts instead of focusing on enemies we know we have?

This is a very, very easy one.

Freedom tends to be restricted from within, not from without. Foreign forces don't have the power to take away the freedom of Americans, only Americans can do that. As such, we have to watch ourselves carefully.  

[haruki_jitsunin]

Yeah, I guess I kind of overlooked that whole part in Romans, but if people do debate and no one changes their mind, then isn't it dividing more than correcting? I don't know. I guess I am just kind of fed up with putting on the offensive face of debating.

Oh, and about the whole ananelic interpretation, all ananel is saying is that homosexuality might not be what the scripture is talking about. He believes there is just as much of a chance that the passage in romas is talking about homosexuality as there is that the passage is talking about rape or subjugation.

P.S. and the passage in genesis, no matter what you say, still says created, not formed. So there is an extremely large chance that it is actually talking about creation and not evolution.

 

[Seority]

well if people debate and dont change their minds i guess you could call them arrogant or hard-headed or whatever. some things just arnt convinceing to some people
i think if you go into a debate you should be ready to tell others your veiw-point but also listen and understand everybody elses.
like yours for example. i can see why you think christians debating over things is kinda pointless since a christians info should from the Bible.
but different people get different things from the Bible even though its the same.
say if 2 kids are doing a book report and both got there information from the same thing. would both their reports be alike? no. they would both write what they got from the info. yes, some of the info will be shown in both reports, but each will still be different. both the kids get the same grade on their reports. (they passed)
i guess its somthing like that. we all get our info. from the same thing, but its differnent for everybody, yet all of us 'pass' so to say.
^_^ (this is my veiw-point)  

[saruwatari07]

I think that the reason christians debate is so that we can all agree. When the christian religion is together then i think we would be able to reach more people. When someone [non christian] asks me a question on the bible, i give them an answer based on how i interpereted the bible. If they were to ask the same question to someone else, they might get a different answer. This leaves the non christian confused, frustrated and maybe even hating God.

But of course, if I get into an argument, i rarely conform to what the other believes, unless it already fits into my way of thinking about the bible. This is because, my interpretation may largly stand on one fact that i believe as an absolute, yet you believe something else is an absolute, therefore if i believe what you are saying, that means almost all of my entire theory was shot down. And thats a frightening prospect. I think people understand this and thats why arguments seem futile and hostile.  

[Curium]

People debate (whether they are Christian or not) because it's in our nature. Humans want to be right, they don't want others to tell them what's right or what's wrong. They want to find out for themselves. It kind of goes along with the fall of man. After Adam and Eve ate from the fruit from the tree, "their eyes were opened". In a sense, as long as we have free will, and the ability to know that right and wrong exist, we will search for what is right and what is wrong, and we will try and prove it to ourselves and to others.

I agree with Sinner on the part about America. We do have to be careful.

Also, the more we fear our enemies, the more freedoms we will give up in order to "preserve the American way." It's kind of contradictory, but I think that it is happening.  

[Luphstorm]

Ahem. Evolution is a THEORY. it is what is considered POSSIBLE. Not that it is true. It has NOT been proved. And as far as Creation and days. I don't know about the hebrew translation or anything, But I believe it was in days. So as to show God's might. As well it talks about once God has created the day and night it talks about evening and the rise and fall of the sun and moon. So it is in days. If people could just see that. I mean there would be a whole lot less arguing. Evolution is wholey impossible within the confines of the Bible. Everything was created within 6 days of each other. No time. As well the Evolution is based off of Selective Breeding. However the genetic changes and such is that it would take more time than the Earth has had life on it according to the Big Bang THEORY. As well most of the changes have been for the worse. Just look at humans. We have no natural defenses. We have nothing going for us except brains. And I don't think that we'd survive long enough to breed in the environ we supposedly evolved in. The lions and cheetahs and heyenahs would all get us. because according to evolution we came from in the south of Africa.

As to the seperation of Christianity. Of course it's happening. The people arguing about homosexuality not accually being homosexuality as in the Bible and the ones saying Evolution works are perverting the Word of God. They are being decieved.  

[Luthien_Shy]

*takes a very deep breath*

Okay, I believe that it is beneficial for us to have discussions on our interpretation of the scriptures. I don't know the verse, and would appreciate it if someone could find it, but the bible says that we should question the scriptures so that we will find their trustworthiness. God doesn't want robots, but people who truely believe in what He says. Personally I like a little discussion on what others believe, because I learn a few things about the topic and sometimes change my view a little or even strengthen it.

Homosexuality is defined in scriptures, and I think someone said Romans but I didn't catch where it was located so I looked it up. Romans 1:18-32. A few others include: 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 and 1 Timothy 1:9-11.

I once heard a great illustration of the Big Bang theory. It was something like God willed and BANG there it was. xd

Recently I had heard a something defining the evolution theory rather well. It stated that "evolution is sciences way of explaining how we came to be." That is all.  

[Sinner]

Luthien_Shy

Homosexuality is defined in scriptures,

No, it isn't. The term "homosexuality" isn't even in the Bible.

What you mean to say is that "Homosexuality is addressed in the scriptures".

Which is also untrue, but for more complicated reasons.

Luthien_Shy

I once heard a great illustration of the Big Bang theory. It was something like God willed and BANG there it was. xd

And here we have an example of the "God of the gaps" fallacy at its finest.

Luthien_Shy

Recently I had heard a something defining the evolution theory rather well. It stated that "evolution is sciences way of explaining how we came to be." That is all.

Close, but no. Evolution is the most logical and likely explanation of why living organisms are the way they are.  

[Luthien_Shy]

Sinner

Luthien_Shy

Homosexuality is defined in scriptures,

No, it isn't. The term "homosexuality" isn't even in the Bible.

What you mean to say is that "Homosexuality is addressed in the scriptures".

Which is also untrue, but for more complicated reasons.

The literal word "homosexuality" isn't in the bible no, but it does talk about homosexuality.

Sinner

Luthien_Shy

I once heard a great illustration of the Big Bang theory. It was something like God willed and BANG there it was. xd

And here we have an example of the "God of the gaps" fallacy at its finest.

The Big Bang theory illustration that I talked about was a bumper sticker that I saw. It was meant as a form of humor.

Sinner

Luthien_Shy

Recently I had heard a something defining the evolution theory rather well. It stated that "evolution is sciences way of explaining how we came to be." That is all.

Close, but no. Evolution is the most logical and likely explanation of why living organisms are the way they are.

The point that I was trying to get across was that evolution is the best explanation that science has to offer. If you don't believe in creationism, and are of a more practical persausion then the scientific explaination would probably be your choice. I believe in creationism, by faith.  

[Sinner]

Luthien_Shy

The literal word "homosexuality" isn't in the bible no, but it does talk about homosexuality.

But it doesn't define it. It doesn't even try.

And no, it doesn't actually address homosexuality (at least, not for the last 2000 years) but again, complicated and a totally different discussion.

Luthien_Shy

The Big Bang theory illustration that I talked about was a bumper sticker that I saw. It was meant as a form of humor.

...Okay, laughing at the morons who put a bumper sticker like that on their car is rather funny.

Luthien_Shy

The point that I was trying to get across was that evolution is the best explanation that science has to offer. If you don't believe in creationism, and are of a more practical persausion then the scientific explaination would probably be your choice. I believe in creationism, by faith.

Except that you keep trying to push science into a separate corner. You keep saying "the best explanation that science has to offer". But it doesn't work like that, science is just the method we use to find things out. It's not the best explanation that science has to offer, it's the best explanation out there.  

[Luthien_Shy]

Sinner

Luthien_Shy

The literal word "homosexuality" isn't in the bible no, but it does talk about homosexuality.

But it doesn't define it. It doesn't even try.

And no, it doesn't actually address homosexuality (at least, not for the last 2000 years) but again, complicated and a totally different discussion.

The verses that I had posted talk about lustful relationships between people of the same sex. If that's not homosexuality I don't know what is.

Sinner

Luthien_Shy

The Big Bang theory illustration that I talked about was a bumper sticker that I saw. It was meant as a form of humor.

...Okay, laughing at the morons who put a bumper sticker like that on their car is rather funny.

Not what I meant, but whatever.

Sinner

Luthien_Shy

The point that I was trying to get across was that evolution is the best explanation that science has to offer. If you don't believe in creationism, and are of a more practical persausion then the scientific explaination would probably be your choice. I believe in creationism, by faith.

Except that you keep trying to push science into a separate corner. You keep saying "the best explanation that science has to offer". But it doesn't work like that, science is just the method we use to find things out. It's not the best explanation that science has to offer, it's the best explanation out there.

I guess I haven't been explaining myself all that well, I'm sorry. I've been trying to say that science can't explain all of how we got here. They get about as far as "The Big Bang" theory and are pretty much stuck.

For some, like myself, I believe that the big bang was actually the action that God took in creating the world and us.

-P.S. I am not going to post any more about homosexuality because I need to read up on the thesis first.-