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Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:14 am
This is one of those special, fun topics, so I decided to get it going just to see what came up, somewhat like the abortion thread. I know the legal benefits of marriage and the power behind saying that two individuals are married, that it can greater intensify the love and understanding of a couple. In my understanding of the scriptures, no where in the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants or the Pearl of Great Price, the works that I understand best, does it specifically state that gay marriage is against God's wishes. I know the Lord has specifically stated in certain contexts that a couple is bound as male and female, or something of the like, but no where is it specifically stated in scripture. The only residing authority over the issue is mostly what an individuals religious leaders proclaim. My religious leaders has pronounced profusely that marriage is between a man and a woman, and that is the divine role. They forbid any marriage but the one ordained of God inside the Holy Temples that we have built around the world. And so, it is expressly so. To cite a simple source of where it is stated that marriage is between a man and a woman in the LDS church, The Family: A Proclamation to the World:
The First Presidency and Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
We, the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator's plan for the eternal destiny of His children.
All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.
In the premortal realm, spirit sons and daughters knew and worshiped God as their Eternal Father and accepted His plan by which His children could obtain a physical body and gain earthly experience to progress toward perfection and ultimately realize his or her divine destiny as an heir of eternal life. The divine plan of happiness enables family relationships to be perpetuated beyond the grave. Sacred ordinances and covenants available in holy temples make it possible for individuals to return to the presence of God and for families to be united eternally.
The first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife. We declare that God's commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife.
We declare the means by which mortal life is created to be divinely appointed. We affirm the sanctity of life and of its importance in God's eternal plan.
Husband and wife have a solemn responsibility to love and care for each other and for their children. "Children are an heritage of the Lord" (Psalms 127:3). Parents have a sacred duty to rear their children in love and righteousness, to provide for their physical and spiritual needs, to teach them to love and serve one another, to observe the commandments of God and to be law-abiding citizens wherever they live. Husbands and wives—mothers and fathers—will be held accountable before God for the discharge of these obligations.
The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity. Happiness in family life is most likely to be achieved when founded upon the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Successful marriages and families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities. By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation. Extended families should lend support when needed.
We warn that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.
We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.
This proclamation was read by President Gordon B. Hinckley as part of his message at the General Relief Society Meeting held September 23, 1995, in Salt Lake City, Utah.
So what are the thoughts or religious views of other people? I know too many people won't care about what I have cited or what I have stated, but such is my religious belief so I threw it out there for better understanding of the LDS church in general.
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Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:22 am
Do I have to drop Loki's thread in here? neutral Or can I let Loki post it in here? xD
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Neferet -House of Night- Crew
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Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:28 pm
-xXLady RaiXx- Do I have to drop Loki's thread in here? neutral Or can I let Loki post it in here? xD I recommend just posting the link to it. The thread is still around. I honestly hate the thread and think Loki has no clue what he's talking about. The Bible, as well as the majority f the Christians on Earth, are fanatically against gay marriage. That's not hard to understand.
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Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:32 pm
Kimihiro_Watanuki -xXLady RaiXx- Do I have to drop Loki's thread in here? neutral Or can I let Loki post it in here? xD I recommend just posting the link to it. The thread is still around. I honestly hate the thread and think Loki has no clue what he's talking about. The Bible, as well as the majority f the Christians on Earth, are fanatically against gay marriage. That's not hard to understand. I am not fanatically against gay marriage. And many Christians aren't. The media shows Christians who are. Honestly, I don't beleive in gay marriage and I don't think it's right. My opinion. I'm not out there screaming at the top of my lungs saying gays go to Hell. Because, honestly, I think a Christian can be gay. So... I just wanted to let you know.
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Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:54 pm
If the Mormons or any other branch of Christianity does not want to bless a gay marriage, that's their right, even if it has a shaky scriptural basis. My only issue is the restriction of gay marriage from the secular context. I mean you don't have to get married in a religious building, there's always the option of going to a justice of the peace and getting a marriage license that way instead.
For the time being though, if a gay couple would like the rights of a married couple, you can always go to a lawyer to get a cohabitation contract drafted until gay marriage becomes legal in the secular field.
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Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:48 pm
Like I posted in the other thread here, I don't really have any reasons against homosexual relationships, if they are loving and comitted. And I'm not against their marriage either. Regarding the first post, I just skimmed through it but it doesn't convince me because: I don't believe in gender roles, actually I dislike the concept of gender alltogether. Gender concepts and all the opression that comes with it [particularly against women, transsexuals and homosexuals] was created by culture, not by God. And not all heterosexual couples want to reproduce, I know that I don't. Yet I'm still convinced that they should be allowed to marry legally, like they are now, purely for love. If certain churches/denominations don't want to perform homosexual marriage because they are convinced it's against their morals, then they shouldn't be forced to; the couple can always find another church or have a secular marriage.
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Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:14 pm
mazuac Kimihiro_Watanuki -xXLady RaiXx- Do I have to drop Loki's thread in here? neutral Or can I let Loki post it in here? xD I recommend just posting the link to it. The thread is still around. I honestly hate the thread and think Loki has no clue what he's talking about. The Bible, as well as the majority f the Christians on Earth, are fanatically against gay marriage. That's not hard to understand. I am not fanatically against gay marriage. And many Christians aren't. The media shows Christians who are. Honestly, I don't beleive in gay marriage and I don't think it's right. My opinion. I'm not out there screaming at the top of my lungs saying gays go to Hell. Because, honestly, I think a Christian can be gay. So... I just wanted to let you know. Maybe the words "the majority of" escape your comprehension? You are one out of many. And exception to the rule. And so are those "many Christians" you cited. I'd also go as far to call them defectors of the Christian faith.
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:16 am
Kimihiro_Watanuki mazuac Kimihiro_Watanuki -xXLady RaiXx- Do I have to drop Loki's thread in here? neutral Or can I let Loki post it in here? xD I recommend just posting the link to it. The thread is still around. I honestly hate the thread and think Loki has no clue what he's talking about. The Bible, as well as the majority f the Christians on Earth, are fanatically against gay marriage. That's not hard to understand. I am not fanatically against gay marriage. And many Christians aren't. The media shows Christians who are. Honestly, I don't beleive in gay marriage and I don't think it's right. My opinion. I'm not out there screaming at the top of my lungs saying gays go to Hell. Because, honestly, I think a Christian can be gay. So... I just wanted to let you know. Maybe the words "the majority of" escape your comprehension? You are one out of many. And exception to the rule. And so are those "many Christians" you cited. I'd also go as far to call them defectors of the Christian faith. I'd honestly like to find a poll somewhere to see at least a semi-accurate percentage rate as to how many Christians really are against the gay marriage laws being passed. I really think the number of Christians for it (or at least not against it) are larger (maybe not in the majority, but getting closer) than you may think. As far as my opinion on it, I'm all for gay marriage laws being passed. If they wish to marry, then let them marry!! While I still consider it something of a sin, religious beliefs of right and wrong should not hinder everyone else from obtaining what they themselves believe is right and just.
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Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:15 pm
I don't think Linaloki's postwall is relevant to the OP's position. The moment I saw pre-existance I realised that teh Bible is only relevant insofar as his Church leaders decide it is. After that, it's the Prophets decision on what's moral or not, and is irrefutable.
I've spent alot of time debating Mormons, you don't get very far in these debates stressed
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Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:30 pm
This has been an issue on gaia since i first joined in '03. although since then gay mariage has becoem leagle in my country "Oh, Canada. where all the fags are free to do what they want including martimony!!!" ok that sucked as a joke but more to the point i don' think churches should be forced to allow gays to mary within thier institutions if it contradicts thier doctrines. on the other hand i don't think that christians screaming about two guys who want to go to the local court house and be recognized as a commited couple who recieve all of the tax benefits and the legal maried status should be ignored. there is the sepparation. ever since judges and ship captains gained the ability to preform mariage ceremonies it stopped being just a religious institution.
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Lazarus The Resurected Crew
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:35 pm
Religion does not belong in politics, at least in America. We're supposed to be built on religious tolerance yet we still through the Bible at anyone that disagrees. stare
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Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:52 pm
Isaac488 Religion does not belong in politics, at least in America. We're supposed to be built on religious tolerance yet we still through the Bible at anyone that disagrees. stare that is why people like me exist: throwing nice big chunks of logic back.
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Lazarus The Resurected Crew
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Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:54 pm
Isaac488 Religion does not belong in politics, at least in America. We're supposed to be built on religious tolerance yet we still through the Bible at anyone that disagrees. stare This is true, America raves about 'separation of Church and State' They need to lead by example and legalize Gay marriage. I am pro-gay marriage and it agitates me its still not legal *le sigh*
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Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:43 pm
Lazarus The Resurected Isaac488 Religion does not belong in politics, at least in America. We're supposed to be built on religious tolerance yet we still through the Bible at anyone that disagrees. stare that is why people like me exist: throwing nice big chunks of logic back. Logic is ineffective.
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Lazarus The Resurected Crew
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Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:10 am
Isaac488 Lazarus The Resurected Isaac488 Religion does not belong in politics, at least in America. We're supposed to be built on religious tolerance yet we still through the Bible at anyone that disagrees. stare that is why people like me exist: throwing nice big chunks of logic back. Logic is ineffective. Logic and Knowledge are the two greatest enemies of Faith.
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