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Isn't a Mary-sue a character that is perfect beyond all belief or unstoppable? I can't remember, but I'm sure that is it.

I would say to have some flaws in the character, like if it involves weapons and such, they should be skilled with close-range and horrible with long-range, or a little of both.

And if they need magic then they aren't perfect with it and it might cause them to mess up.

Hope something along this is what you were asking for, if not, oh well.

Well, in response to both of you...

In my world I have characters who can use their abilities without tiring for a great length of time. A bit like a long life battery that can go through hours of use before it needs recharging. However, misuse of such power in the terms of this particular race warrants drastic action - which I will not talk about really for reasons I'm sure you understand.

Generally speaking, they could be said to be unstoppable, but there IS a force that can be used against them. It's difficult to discuss it as I want to having placed restrictions on myself due to protecting my work.

Berz, in D&D terms, the highest of these characters, as I have been told by another D&D user, would be at the level of quasi-deity although they have physical human form. That is the level of power they are at, and the majority in this sector are yet another step below. In hierarchy, there are less toward the top and more toward the bottom - as is in the food chain.

In Christianity, they would be on the level of archangels and then other angels below them.

Do note, they are meant to be divine beings essentially, although they are still very much human as well, and great misuse of their "natural gift" will warrant the most abominable of punishments - which I also cannot discuss really. Sorry...I just hope the way I'm putting it makes it as understandable as it can be under the circumstances and that you don't make a bad judgment on it based on lack of complete knowledge of it.

Is that alright with you? From what I've said.

Err... I still think that D&D is a completely separate animal from novels. In spite of the fact that Wizards of the Coast publishes novels that are set in D&D worlds, the storytelling mechanic of D&D is just different than that of the narrative. Nothing you said about D&D was wrong, per se; I'm just not sure how it's relevant.

Playing Epic Level characters in D&D is very different than following a demi-god-like character in a novel. In D&D, the character belongs to the person playing it and it is a much more vicarious experience. In a novel, you're reading about someone else. In essence, it's the difference between reading about a powerful character and being a powerful character. Not quite, but you know what I mean. It's the difference between it being your character and that of someone else.

When it's your character, that much power is fun (although, I personally would require something equally powerful to go up against). When it's that of someone else, it's not really that much fun. It's just watching someone else get their rocks off on a vicarious power trip.

That's the difference between the two. I have no problem with high-level games in D&D. But uber-powerful characters in novels I have a hard time buying. Either they will be so powerful that no one could touch them or they would be fighting someone equally powerful and no one could help but notice.

In video games it's accepted because you need that kind of person to even out a plotline, or story or whatever.

I dont understand why people can't accept it in stories, maybe it gives some form of god-like status or something like that.

To be honest I think it beings something better to the story if you have people like that in it.

As you say Mel, re-inforced bodies, higher power it brings a form of mystery to the frey, I like that kind of thing.

You can't just have good and bad, you need.....something in the middle.

My point was actually that you shouldn't bother making the D&D comparison at all. It has zero relevance to novels.

I don't see what Elves have to do with anything in this conversation.

And to be perfectly honest, from what I can gather of the concept, it's not really all that different from other sorts of characters and races of which I have heard. Being born with such power and having to learn to use it? Sorry, that's Harry Potter. It's why I can't stand Harry Potter.

Adding "a twist" doesn't really help that much. M. Night Shyamalan gets mocked for his very vocal claims about "adding a twist" to everything. A twist does not magically transform this into a good concept. The fact remains that the characters themselves still have ridiculous amounts of power. If it's your main character, we can count on the fact that eventually, down the road, they will learn how to use it well enough to be victorious in their conflict in the end. If it's your villain, we can count on eventually their deus ex machina-like weakness will be exposed by the main character. And if its a side character, we know that there is a more interesting story in the fact that they aren't stepping in to solve this problem and why the heck aren't we hearing that story?

And if none of these things are true then either the villain of your story wins in the end or you have a nearly all-powerful race of beings out there who have no point whatsoever.

But the most damning problem with it is that it is just not believable. You can use narrative and exposition in your novel to explain the way such beings work until you're blue in the face. Even the most immersing of readers is eventually going to hit a point at which they just give up and say "oh give me a break. This is just a weak attempt at writing in a deus ex machina." Whether it's true or not, it's what readers are going to think. In fact, it's almost more damning to have a lot of such explanation in a novel because it begins to read more and more like an attempt to stop-gap cover up such a literary device.

Your friend is right. They do sound like quasi-deity D&D characters (and, BTW, that isn't necessarily the case with Epic Level characters; your friend has either explained that to you rather poorly or has misunderstood the way it works. They can be quasi-deities, but they sure as heck don't have to be. In fact, most aren't). Playing a a D&D game with such a character would be really cool.

Reading about such a character in a novel simply isn't.

When you're writing any story you always have to ask yourself "what, exactly, is the point of this story element?" You can have the coolest concept ever conceived of for a new fantasy race. If they have no point to the main plot, they probably don't belong in your story at all. If they do have a point in the main plot, then you have to ask yourself "what message do they convey to the reader?" Writing for yourself is all well and good, but when you write professionally, you are essentially doing the service of entertainment. If a writer's audience isn't entertained, the writer has not done the job they were paid to do. It's just like any other occupation, in that regard.

And that's the crux of the issue, here. Uber-powerful characters that are like unto plot devices are not liked. The reasons why don't ultimately matter. It's just true. And professional writers must consider their audience when writing.

Does this mean caving to what is popular all the time? No. If that were true, we'd be seeing nothing but vampire novels written in the vein of those god-awful Twilight books. But it does mean trying to put yourself in the audience's perspective.

No fears. I hate Harry Potter for many more reasons than just the one. Basically the ones you said. But Harry being as powerful as he is happens to be one of the big ones.

Once again, table-top role-playing games have nothing whatsoever to do with writing novels. It is a completely separate entity. Please stop trying to compare the two. It sure sounds to me like you've never played a proper one or if you have you've only played one-shots with power-gamers. RPGs are just one of those things where you have to find the group that you belong with. And any game master who allows one player's character to be almighty while another player's character gets their butt kicked all the time needs to be dropped like a hot rock on the grounds of incompetence. RPGs only work if the players treat it as a team effort. Players and GMs who believe otherwise will forever be haunted by the angry ghost of Gary Gygax.

Not to insult your friends. I don't know them. I don't know what their tastes are. I don't know what their literary expertise is. But, to be blunt, of course they're going to like your stuff. They're your friends. My friends like the stuff I do, too. Our friends tend to be people who share interests and tastes similar to our own. The fact that we confide in them enough to make them sounding boards for our ideas and change our works based on what they have to say gives them a much more personal stake in the project. That's why I go to my bardic teacher when I want an unbiased opinion on one of my works. I don't go to my friends.

Sorry, but I'm still skeptical about the characters with such great power who hang around in the story not using it. To use a very old adage; "if you put a gun on the mantle piece in chapter one, it'd better go off before the end of the book." These guys have one hell of a gun to use. If the only reason they aren't using it is that the plot needs them not to, you either need to rethink your plot or rethink their level of power. That's a pretty basic concept of story telling, genre and concepts aside.

Wow! So many posts already... I wonder why I didn't see this thread sooner?

Anywho...
I have quite a few characters in a couple of stories of mine that are uber powerful and the thing is, only one of them seems to want to be unstoppable for her own reasons. I don't know if I should say much on the subject cuz I'd like to keep everything locked up tight till the right time.

I've thought of a good way to keep things interesting but I fear that if I say them I may compromise my story so I'll just leave things as they are. mrgreen