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 Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:13 pm
please help me on the subject of people not believing all of the bible is true i know it is but even when i ask them to please tell me a contridictory statement in the bible but they elude 2 the flood wich has been proven but yet i can not convince them please help me crying
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Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:47 pm
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Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:29 pm
anyway i know there is proof of the event but i need help with how 2 show them there are no contradictory statements in the bible
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:05 pm
exclaim exclaim exclaim exclaim exclaim exclaim exclaim exclaim This is right up my alley(Shouting Ganster Voice)! Hey man visit my profilie. Hope the smilies don' drive you crazy(Ganster voice continued).
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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:58 pm
Even though there is proof after proof of Biblical truth there will always be people who don't believe it. I think the only way to "convince" those people isn't with facts, but with faith. We don't understand everything right now, but God does. If we believe even a PART of it, ad pray and God tells us it's true, you just have to keep working with the rest.
That DOES mean I rarely argue with people who aren't interested... but people who don't WANT to believe it usually won't, IN SPITE of, rather than BECAUSE OF facts.
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Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:17 pm
exclaim exclaim exclaim exclaim exclaim exclaim
If you don't know what an idiom is, then "I'm just pulling your leg."
Jesus says that he did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
This is a hebrew idiom, where what seems to be the purpose (a sword) is actualy the consiquence. there are alot of hebrew idioms.
But it is still good to spread God's word, but don't threaten people with Hell, please don't do that, I Beg You not to, Pretty please with pees and butter on top.
Micah
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Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:47 pm
Suffice it to say, I think the Bible is an incredibly interesting literary work that's changed and evolved countless times over the centuries. We actually know a lot about where some parts of the Bible came from and much less about some others. It's unfortunate that when you asked for contradictions within the Bible your comrades pointed out the flood story as a contradiction. That's not an internal contradiction like what you asked for, its external. They're comparing the Biblical account to historical account which is a whole other monster of a discussion topic.
The reason there are so many inconsistencies in the Bible, and there are plenty, is because of the hundreds of edits, the hundreds of versions of stories, and the hundreds of different authors through the ages. You've also got to look at some of the texts that didn't make it into the Bible you use today. Either the stories were left out because they didn't serve a purpose or they were written to late to be considered "orthodox." What you ARE left with is a patchwork quilt of imagery and writing from the early Jews who had hundreds of gods until the Babylonian exile when they came in contact with the idea of dualities (good vs. evil, one god for each which was borrowed from the Zoroastrian religion). The reason you don't have two gods in Christianity and Judaism is because they still wanted to keep the duality but only have one main God. That's why they recruited Satan as the evil force.
I'm getting off topic, but you see my point. The reason there are so many contradictions within the Bible itself is simply because there were so many authors writing to so many different people. For instance, Matthew and Luke used both Mark's gospel and what's referred to as the Q document to write their own gospels to different groups of people. That's why they're very similar but they say things differently or leave out some things and add in others. We've known for centuries that the 4 gospels were, in fact, not written by men named Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
In no way am I qualified to give you all the inconsistencies of the Bible, but there are a number of great books on the subject you might want to check out. I had a list around here somewhere, but if you want to peruse around on Amazon I'm sure you'll find some great material, most of which is purely objective scholarly research.
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Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:24 am
Rick Dawkins Suffice it to say, I think the Bible is an incredibly interesting literary work that's changed and evolved countless times over the centuries. We actually know a lot about where some parts of the Bible came from and much less about some others. It's unfortunate that when you asked for contradictions within the Bible your comrades pointed out the flood story as a contradiction. That's not an internal contradiction like what you asked for, its external. They're comparing the Biblical account to historical account which is a whole other monster of a discussion topic. The reason there are so many inconsistencies in the Bible, and there are plenty, is because of the hundreds of edits, the hundreds of versions of stories, and the hundreds of different authors through the ages. You've also got to look at some of the texts that didn't make it into the Bible you use today. Either the stories were left out because they didn't serve a purpose or they were written to late to be considered "orthodox." What you ARE left with is a patchwork quilt of imagery and writing from the early Jews who had hundreds of gods until the Babylonian exile when they came in contact with the idea of dualities (good vs. evil, one god for each which was borrowed from the Zoroastrian religion). The reason you don't have two gods in Christianity and Judaism is because they still wanted to keep the duality but only have one main God. That's why they recruited Satan as the evil force. I'm getting off topic, but you see my point. The reason there are so many contradictions within the Bible itself is simply because there were so many authors writing to so many different people. For instance, Matthew and Luke used both Mark's gospel and what's referred to as the Q document to write their own gospels to different groups of people. That's why they're very similar but they say things differently or leave out some things and add in others. We've known for centuries that the 4 gospels were, in fact, not written by men named Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. In no way am I qualified to give you all the inconsistencies of the Bible, but there are a number of great books on the subject you might want to check out. I had a list around here somewhere, but if you want to peruse around on Amazon I'm sure you'll find some great material, most of which is purely objective scholarly research. I can just tell you have never hear a call from that voice of God. You try to PROVE or DISPROVE the bible. You say there are inconsitencies... truth is, there isn't. God says "I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except through me." Do you believe that is inconsistent throughout the bible. God changes his mind in all knowing. The inconsistancies of the bible are rare and unexplainable if there are any. All I know is that one day I will stand beside Mike and the people of this guild and the people I know, and Jesus,... my savior, will be in the center and we will say Holy Holy Holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, who is, and who is to come. It seems you are almost radically trying to explain God does not exist, and yet you come into a christian forum... let me tell you... history and research is the study of what is unknown... Nothing is exactly right... In my bible it says to have faith and rely on that to guide me. You could call that religious indoctrine... but I have been given purpose by God, and no one not even Satan can deter me. The knowledge that he exists is apparent... it is much harder to tell me that there is another God. My question to you is this... if God wanted to make disciples, share the word, and bring hope... why would he make it so hard to believe in him? He didn't... and the whole thing about the Bible CHANGING... isn't true. It's been transcribed by the individuals who wanted it to remain in the great context. If you want to look at a great portion of scripture turn to the end where in Revelation it says if you add or subtract to God's prophecy you will be added to the suffering of hell. Well this is my hope... is that the CHRISTIANS reading that WOULDN'T CHANGE God's word if they wanted to live in HEAVEN. If you want to explain the bible, have faith in it being true...
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Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:26 am
No offense to anyone here... but you are here using some person's book as a way of disproving God's word... Faith starts with the heart, not the history.
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Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:56 pm
The bible was written some time after Jesus's death. History and scientist's can both prove this with hard evidence. The bible does has been misinterpreted and more than likely mistranslated. This kinds of things happen with any piece of literature fiction or non-fiction. It's normal. Why do you think most if not all Japanese graphic novels when translated to English are read right to left instead of left to right? So the translation and quality wouldn't be lost. That simple.
The people who preach the bible tell people that God hates gays. When in fact that is entirely not true because God did indeed create gays and he loves his children equally and he does indeed love gays.
Having sex isn't a sin neccessarily. Without sex then how do you suppose women make babies? Last I checked women are not asexual, stop confusing us with the bloody starfish.
FYI, History is the study of the past. Not the unknown. Science is the study of the unknown. I'm not bashing you or anything but maybe it would be good if you actually payed attention in school so that you wouldn't get these two subjects mixed up. ^___^ Just a thought.
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Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:44 pm
Alright Link of Chaos:
I never, I repeat: never set out to "DISPROVE" the Bible. It's a literary work of art, and by claiming it to be infallible, you've effortlessly thrown all the great works inside it out the window. Why is it that, between the two of us, I have more respect for your Holy Book than you?
Unfortunately, you're ignorant (claiming that someone is ignorant of something isn't an insult it's a statement of fact concerning someone's level of awareness concerning a specific topic) when it comes to the changes of the Bible, I'll give you a few terms from the HISTORY of it that you can look up in your free time:
the Great Redactor
The Nicene Council
The "Q" gospel
Ezra, the scribe
Beruch son of Niriah (author of Deuteronomy and Jeremiah)
Septuagint
Apochrypha
Jerome of Dalmatia
Codex Sinaticus
Wyclef
Timedale the heretic
Apocalypse of Peter
Gospel of Nicodemus
Gospel of Thomas, Phillip
Gospel of James: Mary (Mother of Jesus, bet you didn't know she was believed to be virgin-born too)
Infancy Gospel of Thomas
The Book of Enoch
The Life of Adam and Eve
Marcion Puntice
Constantine
My advice to you is to put up or shut up. You don't get to come in here and say things like "the Bible is perfect, there were never any inconsistencies in it," without doing your homework and expecting to not to have the proof thrown back at you. I'm all for you believing what you want, but I'm also for respecting the amazing stories and rich history of the Bible and how it's changed through the years, as well as all the hard work that so many different people have put into discovering these things. If God gave you a brain I'm pretty sure he'd want you to use it and if he didn't then what would that say about him?
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:59 pm
No offense, but this clan is called NOT TO US: A CHRISTIAN GUILD OF FAITH AND BELIEF!
Not of questioning the holy spirit. He has spoke to me, and you try to put evidence that the bible has changed... well that doesn't matter in the end, why?
Because God has given me a PURPOSE. And that was through things you can't find in a history book. YOU CLAIM your research to be FACT, but I claim my religion to be based on FAITH.
I'm not being indoctrinated by GOD. I am being told by GOD. Holy, Holy, Holy is what he did, and what he is doing. In my life, MY LIFE is crap, compared to his glory.
Listen, I have a friend who was almost at suicide after I told him what my true complete vision was... I'm scared to tell anyone on this forum of what it was, because that was God's greatness. God is Glorious. And I can study him to heaven, but I can live a FULFILLED life, by TRUSTING in him, I don't have to trust the BIBLE... or YOUR EVIDENCE.
I have to listen to God's silent whisper, that only comes with the faith. No offense, but God isn't logical, to our understanding of him... and what you are doing is trying to shake up my people and my religion, and see... God is speaking to me through a spirit, that all will bow to.
God is just. What are you trying to do? Disprove everything, and shove it as fact? You hide yourself in light, but we all fear the Lord, and I... and thousands will bow to him.
When he asks us in heaven, what will he say to you.
Come to me, or Depart from me.
It's what you do, and what you believe in this life that decides that. And GOD has no boundries of love. His word in the bible could be changed, but it is still more powerful then any book EVER written by man.
Yes man wrote the bible, but that was because God gave his word's for MAN to write. In 2000 years, his word still affects us. His commands, and lifestyle, we follow.
I love God, and his purpose has come to me in a feeling. My calling is to get everyone that is christian to believe in Eden and get there. I am called to protect those on their path. Now let me ask you,
Fact or Faith? Either way, fact will no longer work in explaining your thesis... what do you believe?
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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:22 am
"Life without truth is not possible. Truth is perhaps life itself."
Franz Kafka, one of the great Jewish writers of the past century. Perhaps his words will make more of a difference than mine. You have an extreme disconnect with reality going on, I hope you get through it.
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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:57 am
Rick Dawkins "Life without truth is not possible. Truth is perhaps life itself." Franz Kafka, one of the great Jewish writers of the past century. Perhaps his words will make more of a difference than mine. You have an extreme disconnect with reality going on, I hope you get through it. I agree. It's okay to believe in something. I'm not saying you can't believe in God. Humans have no confidence in themselves so they look to higher Gods (notice I said Gods not God, there are more than one religion, deal with it) for help and guidance. It's completely natural. But to let it control your life to the point where you are no longer a free-thinking being with no free will, that is what disconnects you from the harshness of reality. I hope you are able to open your eyes before you are either used by the people you trust the most or even worse.
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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:37 pm
Rick Dawkins "Life without truth is not possible. Truth is perhaps life itself." Franz Kafka, one of the great Jewish writers of the past century. Perhaps his words will make more of a difference than mine. You have an extreme disconnect with reality going on, I hope you get through it. Jewish people in this time don't believe in God more or less. They are much more leaning Agnostic. I have a truth, the truth is that I am here. The belief is that God has made me, and that he has a plan in my life. Reality... is God. God breathes life into everything, and reality is made from him. Disconecting with reality, for me... is disconnecting with God. No offense, but you come into a guild of Faith and Belief and tell me that my faith is based from a bunch of false Gods... and then you shove a bunch of famous men's quotes at me. Well this is what I have to say, no man can beat the Holy Spirit that dwells within me. And, I only pray that you come to put faith in God, over faith in men.
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