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 Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:40 pm
Alright, so I know there can be many different versions of aliens out there (strange tentacled things, for example) but this topic centers, for the most part, around the standard image of the Grey Alien, as they're called. You know, large almond-shaped head, big black eyes, small mouth, scrawny body, green or grey in color, etc.
Assuming, of course, that this is what they really look like, I've always found it interesting how similar they are to us. I mean, what do you think the chances are of something from a completely different planet looking so similar? Four limbs, hands, feet, two eyes, and a mouth in the same position on the face, sometimes even depicted with two nostrils.
And just for the sake of not making the first post big and wordy enough to scare people away from it, I'm going to save my own ideas about this for after someone else replies. sweatdrop
SO! What do you people think about this? Why would they be so similar to us?
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:43 pm
well maby they live in a world like ours and they needed the same amout of limbs and facial fitures. or maby they can change theyre apearence and when and if they come here they try to look like us but their shapeshifting is very limited. wink
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:34 pm
I actually never really thought much about shapeshifting... Interesting idea.
My theory, (or hypothesis, since I'm going to be a science nerd here) is similar to your first idea, and relies mainly on convergent evolution.
There are some amazing examples of it right here on earth. Organisms that are not really related to each other can evolve surprisingly similar characteristics if they live in a similar environment.
(Just bear with me if you already know all this stuff.)
The idea is that similar environments, or similar niches, even if they're on separate continents, will have similar pressures for organisms to evolve certain traits. That is, those traits will be more advantageous to organisms in both environments because the environments are similar, and thus the organisms are more likely to evolve those characteristics. And so, you get unrelated species that look very similar. I'm afraid I don't know the names of the species, but there are a couple moles that evolved to the burrowing lifestyle separately, yet look very much the same, a couple unrelated tree species that have spikes and small leaves covering the trunk and branches, and at least two kinds of anteaters that evolved those long noses and tongues separately.
This idea, I'm sure, can be applied to different planets. If the traits we have are evolutionarily advantageous on our planet, it is possible that they are also advantageous on other planets with similar environments. Therefore, we and aliens look so similar because our planets are similar enough to allow for convergent evolution.
There... That's my idea. What does everybody else think?
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:41 pm
Here are some pictures of what I was talking about, for those interested.
Moles:
http://www.daviddarling.info/images/placental_and_marsupial_mole.jpg
Trees:
http://science.kennesaw.edu/~jdirnber/Bio2108/Lecture/LecPhylogeny/25-10-ConvergentEvol-PNL.jpg
Anteaters:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/01/4/images/l_014_01_l.jpg
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Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:36 pm
Donda Assuming, of course, that this is what they really look like, I've always found it interesting how similar they are to us. I mean, what do you think the chances are of something from a completely different planet looking so similar? Four limbs, hands, feet, two eyes, and a mouth in the same position on the face, sometimes even depicted with two nostrils. Think about it for a moment if you will. Limbs use up a lot of brain space, two limbs are impractical for anything very complicated, three is just plain impractical for anything, while 5 or more just overloads the brain for nothing. Having the mouth below the eyes and nose is ideal since that makes it easier to smell and see what you're eating, and you wouldn't want your eyes or nose in your food now do you? I could go on, but basically nature has found these same basic solutions again and again just here on Earth. Look at all the animals, they all have this same basic construct, so why not aliens?
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Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:31 pm
x[Girlycard]x Donda Assuming, of course, that this is what they really look like, I've always found it interesting how similar they are to us. I mean, what do you think the chances are of something from a completely different planet looking so similar? Four limbs, hands, feet, two eyes, and a mouth in the same position on the face, sometimes even depicted with two nostrils. Think about it for a moment if you will. Limbs use up a lot of brain space, two limbs are impractical for anything very complicated, three is just plain impractical for anything, while 5 or more just overloads the brain for nothing. Having the mouth below the eyes and nose is ideal since that makes it easier to smell and see what you're eating, and you wouldn't want your eyes or nose in your food now do you? I could go on, but basically nature has found these same basic solutions again and again just here on Earth. Look at all the animals, they all have this same basic construct, so why not aliens? Well, animals on earth generally have the same basic construct because they came from a common ancestor which had that trait, but yeah, it's sorta the same idea. Though, with the way you put it, it seems they have plenty of brain space, since their brains are so big, and more limbs wouldn't harm that. But then again, the large brains must have evolved after the limbs, so in their simple beginnings, like ours, four limbs may have been the most practical, so that's what happened.
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:53 pm
Donda x[Girlycard]x Donda Assuming, of course, that this is what they really look like, I've always found it interesting how similar they are to us. I mean, what do you think the chances are of something from a completely different planet looking so similar? Four limbs, hands, feet, two eyes, and a mouth in the same position on the face, sometimes even depicted with two nostrils. Think about it for a moment if you will. Limbs use up a lot of brain space, two limbs are impractical for anything very complicated, three is just plain impractical for anything, while 5 or more just overloads the brain for nothing. Having the mouth below the eyes and nose is ideal since that makes it easier to smell and see what you're eating, and you wouldn't want your eyes or nose in your food now do you? I could go on, but basically nature has found these same basic solutions again and again just here on Earth. Look at all the animals, they all have this same basic construct, so why not aliens? Well, animals on earth generally have the same basic construct because they came from a common ancestor which had that trait, but yeah, it's sorta the same idea. Though, with the way you put it, it seems they have plenty of brain space, since their brains are so big, and more limbs wouldn't harm that. But then again, the large brains must have evolved after the limbs, so in their simple beginnings, like ours, four limbs may have been the most practical, so that's what happened. Having more limbs would waste the amount of space they use for telepathy and many other remarkable abilities they have. They don't require overly-complicated bodies, so they have no need to evolve their bodies more than what they already have. I'm quite familiar with the nature of Greys, and their mental ability is much more important to them than their physical ability.
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:17 pm
x[Girlycard]x Donda x[Girlycard]x Donda Assuming, of course, that this is what they really look like, I've always found it interesting how similar they are to us. I mean, what do you think the chances are of something from a completely different planet looking so similar? Four limbs, hands, feet, two eyes, and a mouth in the same position on the face, sometimes even depicted with two nostrils. Think about it for a moment if you will. Limbs use up a lot of brain space, two limbs are impractical for anything very complicated, three is just plain impractical for anything, while 5 or more just overloads the brain for nothing. Having the mouth below the eyes and nose is ideal since that makes it easier to smell and see what you're eating, and you wouldn't want your eyes or nose in your food now do you? I could go on, but basically nature has found these same basic solutions again and again just here on Earth. Look at all the animals, they all have this same basic construct, so why not aliens? Well, animals on earth generally have the same basic construct because they came from a common ancestor which had that trait, but yeah, it's sorta the same idea. Though, with the way you put it, it seems they have plenty of brain space, since their brains are so big, and more limbs wouldn't harm that. But then again, the large brains must have evolved after the limbs, so in their simple beginnings, like ours, four limbs may have been the most practical, so that's what happened. Having more limbs would waste the amount of space they use for telepathy and many other remarkable abilities they have. They don't require overly-complicated bodies, so they have no need to evolve their bodies more than what they already have. I'm quite familiar with the nature of Greys, and their mental ability is much more important to them than their physical ability. Yes, but assuming evolutionary laws on their planet are the same as on ours, then they would have evolved their set amount of limbs long before their brains even reached the level of complexity of our brains. I suppose they could have started with more limbs, and lost some over time due to disuse, but my original point still stands. The most evolutionarily advantageous form for the dominant species of the planet is the same between our planets. I bet, in their distant past, they looked even more similar to us than they do now.
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:17 pm
Donda x[Girlycard]x Donda x[Girlycard]x Donda Assuming, of course, that this is what they really look like, I've always found it interesting how similar they are to us. I mean, what do you think the chances are of something from a completely different planet looking so similar? Four limbs, hands, feet, two eyes, and a mouth in the same position on the face, sometimes even depicted with two nostrils. Think about it for a moment if you will. Limbs use up a lot of brain space, two limbs are impractical for anything very complicated, three is just plain impractical for anything, while 5 or more just overloads the brain for nothing. Having the mouth below the eyes and nose is ideal since that makes it easier to smell and see what you're eating, and you wouldn't want your eyes or nose in your food now do you? I could go on, but basically nature has found these same basic solutions again and again just here on Earth. Look at all the animals, they all have this same basic construct, so why not aliens? Well, animals on earth generally have the same basic construct because they came from a common ancestor which had that trait, but yeah, it's sorta the same idea. Though, with the way you put it, it seems they have plenty of brain space, since their brains are so big, and more limbs wouldn't harm that. But then again, the large brains must have evolved after the limbs, so in their simple beginnings, like ours, four limbs may have been the most practical, so that's what happened. Having more limbs would waste the amount of space they use for telepathy and many other remarkable abilities they have. They don't require overly-complicated bodies, so they have no need to evolve their bodies more than what they already have. I'm quite familiar with the nature of Greys, and their mental ability is much more important to them than their physical ability. Yes, but assuming evolutionary laws on their planet are the same as on ours, then they would have evolved their set amount of limbs long before their brains even reached the level of complexity of our brains. I suppose they could have started with more limbs, and lost some over time due to disuse, but my original point still stands. The most evolutionarily advantageous form for the dominant species of the planet is the same between our planets. I bet, in their distant past, they looked even more similar to us than they do now. Assuming the evolutionnary laws are the same does not mean they will necessarily look the same. They have different needs to ours, and evolution gets rid of anything that is not needed. Taking this into account, the Greys have more need of their intelligence than brute strength, hence their smaller and more fragile bodies. They have no need for larger muscular bodies with complex skeletons, so evolution got rid of it altogether to make more room for their brains.
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Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:33 pm
x[Girlycard]x Donda x[Girlycard]x Having more limbs would waste the amount of space they use for telepathy and many other remarkable abilities they have. They don't require overly-complicated bodies, so they have no need to evolve their bodies more than what they already have. I'm quite familiar with the nature of Greys, and their mental ability is much more important to them than their physical ability. Yes, but assuming evolutionary laws on their planet are the same as on ours, then they would have evolved their set amount of limbs long before their brains even reached the level of complexity of our brains. I suppose they could have started with more limbs, and lost some over time due to disuse, but my original point still stands. The most evolutionarily advantageous form for the dominant species of the planet is the same between our planets. I bet, in their distant past, they looked even more similar to us than they do now. Assuming the evolutionnary laws are the same does not mean they will necessarily look the same. They have different needs to ours, and evolution gets rid of anything that is not needed. Taking this into account, the Greys have more need of their intelligence than brute strength, hence their smaller and more fragile bodies. They have no need for larger muscular bodies with complex skeletons, so evolution got rid of it altogether to make more room for their brains. I agree with that. I'm just saying that you made a connection between limb number and their complicated brains, and I don't think that's the case. I'm just saying that while it is possible that their ancestors had more limbs and later lost them, its possible that due to their similarity to us, their overall evolutionary path could have been very similar to ours. So, their ancestors probably had four limbs for millions of years, at least. And because evolution (in the long term) is an increase in complication, their advanced brains evolved much later than their legs did. Their ancestors had very simple brains when they first evolved their four legs. This talk of brains, however, leads me to another interesting thought. It has become my belief that society stops evolution, or at least slows it down to an incredibly slow rate. (I mean even more slow, since it's already slow in the first place.) I believe that humans have pretty much stopped evolving. Yes, we probably will change slight amounts over time (for example, wisdom teeth will probably disappear since they're of a recessive allele, an that recessive allele is no longer an evolutionary advantage since we're not chewing on stuff that grinds our teeth down so much anymore), but for the most part, this is how we're going to be. Society and medicine have, for the most part, eliminated natural selection, which is one of the main driving forces of evolution. This leads to the brain size of the greys. I suppose it's possible that even their more simple-brained ancestors had some semblance of telepathy and other such abilities, but it is highly unlikely that their brains became that complicated before they developed society. This means that they would have had to have evolved in the years since their species developed a society. I can think of three possible ways that this could occur: 1. It's been millions or billions of years since their species first developed society and evolution is acting on them very very slowly, or, 2. Perhaps, in some point in their history, they had some nazi-like dictatorship in which less intelligent individuals were killed before they could pass on their genes to offspring, which would thus increase the intelligence, and likely brain size of the average individual, or, 3. Maybe intergalactic life really is like the TV shows make it seem, and it is kill or be killed, thus reinstating natural selection in such a way that the more intelligent individuals are more fit, and thus more likely to survive to pass on their genes. ...Just a few hypotheses. Sorry that was so long.
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:13 am
Donda x[Girlycard]x Donda x[Girlycard]x Having more limbs would waste the amount of space they use for telepathy and many other remarkable abilities they have. They don't require overly-complicated bodies, so they have no need to evolve their bodies more than what they already have. I'm quite familiar with the nature of Greys, and their mental ability is much more important to them than their physical ability. Yes, but assuming evolutionary laws on their planet are the same as on ours, then they would have evolved their set amount of limbs long before their brains even reached the level of complexity of our brains. I suppose they could have started with more limbs, and lost some over time due to disuse, but my original point still stands. The most evolutionarily advantageous form for the dominant species of the planet is the same between our planets. I bet, in their distant past, they looked even more similar to us than they do now. Assuming the evolutionnary laws are the same does not mean they will necessarily look the same. They have different needs to ours, and evolution gets rid of anything that is not needed. Taking this into account, the Greys have more need of their intelligence than brute strength, hence their smaller and more fragile bodies. They have no need for larger muscular bodies with complex skeletons, so evolution got rid of it altogether to make more room for their brains. I agree with that. I'm just saying that you made a connection between limb number and their complicated brains, and I don't think that's the case. I'm just saying that while it is possible that their ancestors had more limbs and later lost them, its possible that due to their similarity to us, their overall evolutionary path could have been very similar to ours. So, their ancestors probably had four limbs for millions of years, at least. And because evolution (in the long term) is an increase in complication, their advanced brains evolved much later than their legs did. Their ancestors had very simple brains when they first evolved their four legs. This talk of brains, however, leads me to another interesting thought. It has become my belief that society stops evolution, or at least slows it down to an incredibly slow rate. (I mean even more slow, since it's already slow in the first place.) I believe that humans have pretty much stopped evolving. Yes, we probably will change slight amounts over time (for example, wisdom teeth will probably disappear since they're of a recessive allele, an that recessive allele is no longer an evolutionary advantage since we're not chewing on stuff that grinds our teeth down so much anymore), but for the most part, this is how we're going to be. Society and medicine have, for the most part, eliminated natural selection, which is one of the main driving forces of evolution. This leads to the brain size of the greys. I suppose it's possible that even their more simple-brained ancestors had some semblance of telepathy and other such abilities, but it is highly unlikely that their brains became that complicated before they developed society. This means that they would have had to have evolved in the years since their species developed a society. I can think of three possible ways that this could occur: 1. It's been millions or billions of years since their species first developed society and evolution is acting on them very very slowly, or, 2. Perhaps, in some point in their history, they had some nazi-like dictatorship in which less intelligent individuals were killed before they could pass on their genes to offspring, which would thus increase the intelligence, and likely brain size of the average individual, or, 3. Maybe intergalactic life really is like the TV shows make it seem, and it is kill or be killed, thus reinstating natural selection in such a way that the more intelligent individuals are more fit, and thus more likely to survive to pass on their genes. ...Just a few hypotheses. Sorry that was so long. Remember that we're talking about an alien race. Their culture is bound to be exponentialy different, so its bound to evolve differently. There isn't just physical evolution that exists, there is also spiritual evolution. Humans are quite far behind in this area, but the Greys have shown themselves to be quite spiritualy evolved(telepathy, being beyond the limits of time, incredibly difficult to kill without completely annihilating the body,etc). Obviously while humans are geared right now towards physical evolution(in a more cultural way that is), Greys must have long ago decided that spiritual evolution was more important. While humans evolved a stronger physical body out of necessity and try to make the entire planet "civilized", Greys allowed their own physical strength to deteriorate since they did not need it anymore. Touching on that last point you mentionned, I think this is one of the biggest problems in humanity. Since everyone is offered equal chance, the geneticaly weak, stupid, and diseased get to survive and pass it on to the next generation. It doesn't get annihilated as it would if natural selection were allowed to be at play. This is causing the human race to weaken as we speak, and I believe this will ultimately destroy us if no global cataclysm doesn't do the job first. I've come up with my own little theory concerning the Greys and their obvious experiments on people. Most people think its because their race is dying out, but I think its quite the opposite. Greys have enormous numbers on several different planets, most of which are still capable of sexual reproduction. They aren't in any risk. However, humans are facing all kinds of risks of being extinct. I think the Greys are trying to harvest as much genetic material as possible from the stronger members of the human race to perhaps give us a second chance. Everyone on Earth would die, but the raw materials could be used to restart the human race elsewhere. This is just an idea though.
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Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:21 pm
x[Girlycard]x Remember that we're talking about an alien race. Their culture is bound to be exponentialy different, so its bound to evolve differently. There isn't just physical evolution that exists, there is also spiritual evolution. Humans are quite far behind in this area, but the Greys have shown themselves to be quite spiritualy evolved(telepathy, being beyond the limits of time, incredibly difficult to kill without completely annihilating the body,etc). Obviously while humans are geared right now towards physical evolution(in a more cultural way that is), Greys must have long ago decided that spiritual evolution was more important. While humans evolved a stronger physical body out of necessity and try to make the entire planet "civilized", Greys allowed their own physical strength to deteriorate since they did not need it anymore. Touching on that last point you mentionned, I think this is one of the biggest problems in humanity. Since everyone is offered equal chance, the geneticaly weak, stupid, and diseased get to survive and pass it on to the next generation. It doesn't get annihilated as it would if natural selection were allowed to be at play. This is causing the human race to weaken as we speak, and I believe this will ultimately destroy us if no global cataclysm doesn't do the job first. I've come up with my own little theory concerning the Greys and their obvious experiments on people. Most people think its because their race is dying out, but I think its quite the opposite. Greys have enormous numbers on several different planets, most of which are still capable of sexual reproduction. They aren't in any risk. However, humans are facing all kinds of risks of being extinct. I think the Greys are trying to harvest as much genetic material as possible from the stronger members of the human race to perhaps give us a second chance. Everyone on Earth would die, but the raw materials could be used to restart the human race elsewhere. This is just an idea though. Interesting ideas. I still think that it's entirely possible that their beginnings were very much like ours. At one point, they may have been just as simple as we are, and may have had a society just like ours. Being aliens doesn't necessarily mean that their culture was very different from ours. They may well have been as flawed as we are but lived past that and evolved further. On what you said about "spiritual evolution." I, personally, don't think a spirit can evolve as that term might imply. Assuming beings of a certain intelligence or emotional complexity do have spirits, I think that the aliens' brains would just have evolved to a level of complication at which they have a better connection with that spirit. Our spirits, for example, might be indistinguishable from theirs, but we don't have the mental capacity to realize that or utilize it. And while I'm sure their evolution was severely slowed down by society and medicine, by whatever means, their brains evolved, and if their bodies hadn't reduced by then, perhaps they had gained a good sense of mind-over-matter and could easily manipulate their bodies. I don't mean so much that they could cause themselves to evolve, but each alien could perhaps, in its life, reduce its own body so that the body would take up less energy, and that extra energy would be reserved for the brain. Or, maybe the body reduced because the brain got so big, You'd have to eat a whole lot of food to keep an active body and very large brain running. (Sorry I'm so random here. I just kinda type out the ideas as they come to me. sweatdrop ) And, if they're as hard to kill as you say, it could be because they are not so dependent on their bodies anymore. All they require is the spirit, and probably some amount of functioning brain. And about your theory: Surely there are plenty of other beings in the universe. Why would they be so interested in saving one that is so flawed and has essentially doomed itself? Your theory is possible, but they could also just be doing research for the sake of doing research. Or maybe they want to learn as much about us as they can before we do wipe ourselves out. Humans do the same thing with various organisms on earth.
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:38 pm
both of you make very valid points on this subject but because we are humans we may never be right for example they could have started already as evolved as it is or at least more evolved then our race or maybe advances in science may have made them they are for example what was supposed to keep the near-dead alive may have destroyed the body but enhanced the mind or the planet may have ran out of resources to keep such a complex body alive and evolution and desperation helped them in the way they are now but in the process of them harvesting maybe one race seen us make the same mistake they did and are trying to help the stupider and less healthy become better or maybe they just like to see us in chaos either way what's happening is and we should not scoff at it but ask how who/what and why but what they say now about our theory's is human nature don't believe what sounds impossible/improbable or maybe none of this is real maybe it's just the human mind doing what it does in sleep put images in your sights but these are just my thoughts maybe one of you guys is right maybe no one is or like I stated before maybe it's not even real
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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:30 am
Woah, there... Umm... No offense, but might I suggest punctuation? That post was incredibly difficult to read, and I honestly can't figure out half of it. sweatdrop
What I did get from your post was the part about technology. (Actually, I could be mistaken about that, but one way or another, something you said led to the idea of technology.) Which is an interesting thought. With highly advanced technology, it is entirely possible that they essentially built themselves. They could have slowly altered their own genetic material until the entire species had become how they wanted it.
Also, you said something about that they could have started as already evolved, which I think can't be the case, because everything had to have a start. They can't have just spontaneously come into existence as the highly advanced beings they are, unless you're talking creationism/intelligent design, which kind of goes against the original point of this topic.
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Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:01 am
well I believe that aliens could have tampered with our evolution. and that is why we look alike.
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