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Ishira Tsubasa Vice Captain
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 Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 8:50 pm
alright. See i didnt know that. Hrmm that sounds like it would be the best way to recruit serious people, so im not opposed to it at all. Yes, there should be a way for people to easily track how they are doing and what their stats are at. 2nd post on a thread is normally for that id agree. I think it should be up to the DM how they want that handled since essentially they will be in charge of that rp,
As far as here goes, id like to set up another thread for that. I think it would keep our main rp here from being cluttered.
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Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 8:33 am
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Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 8:57 am
As a personal reply from a quick scan through, I gotta say I'm a little upset. Having been in this guild (previously forum) for a very long time and made a big contribution to it, as many of us have, I feel like you're taking the name, and you're taking the skeleton, and you're bedazzling it to freshen it up. But no matter what, you're skinning away all of the meat and skin that held it together and made it move as a fun environment for anyone to join in.
Dice rolls? Since when was fighting about chance? Leave that for DnD; they even have an online DnD roleplaying sight. GNA was never about restriction the players or their skills to fate, it was about having fun, and trusting that the other players that you have been around for years would play with just as much skill, confidence, and humility. Yeah, there are annoying God Modders, but why hurt everyone with a dice roll system rather than punish the very few that break past that line? Personally, I always have that humility and let people land blows because s**t happens in fights, and no one in invincible.
Getting rid of the dojos is a whatever, because honestly most of them were never used. The issue I have is that 1) I actually have taught people how to fight roleplay before through playing and I would not want to gunk up the main thread. This is a guild; we have the space. 2) It gave you something extra to be able to see just how different every person was. It was their space, and their comfort zone. Even if it never was used. Personally, I used mine a lot, for training other players, and for story lining outside of the main thread. Is there a replacement for this? Or are we just going to treat this guild like a forum, and in which case if you're changing this much about our routes why don't you just make a forum in Barton Town?
Why are there classes? I just it, you know, RPGs and everything and we are technically writing our own RPG every time we make one of these, but why can't I shoot arrows and perform magic? Like in Skyrim, yo. Dragon born be snipin' some bitches from afar and melting faces from close by. It doesn't take your entire like to shoot an arrow, and if it does and that's all you're good for, then you're gonna get your a** whooped when someone breaches your area of affect.
Honestly, if you're saying that the GNA would be involved, but it's not the basis of everything, then what you guys are talking about is a spin off like Flash to Arrow, or like Sword Art Online going to other game services that had the same basic concept. Have a single thread for it, but it is in no way going to be considered a 'reboot' to the GNA to me. It was be considered an affiliate in my eyes, because it is not the GNA.
That was my comments from a skim, so if I got anything wrong, apologies.
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Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 12:52 pm
I can see some of your points, but also think your affiliate suggestion misses the fact that this place has been dead over a year after struggling with reboot after reboot of the old formula.
I don't think it's a flaw in the system we used there as much as a flaw in Gaia being able to still provide members to support that system. All the people here have had their RP skills evolve and branch out in various ways from where the GNA was when it started. Or in my case (and to some extent Ishira's too if memory serves) where I started in the fox-hole for online free-form role playing where stuff was random, things came out of nowhere, but still were 'fair' in terms of power.
Thing is, that kind of RP relies on trust, regular interaction, and friendships bound beyond the scope of an RP alone. It has plenty of random non combat interactions, as new people join and tell stories, while others leave as their time in the RP vanishes. Things can keep flowing because everyone's around on a regular enough basis for people to drop in and out for silly reasons such as "gotta run for school/class/work/bed" and others are online to keep it running when things are on a roll.
What we have is different schedules, people who work, and also we need new members when Gaia's been pretty lacking in giving people who seem to want to stick around long enough to learn to RP the fair style. Unfortunately that means the dice system, and class system, is the lesser evil here.
Training someone to RP freeform well is like helping someone learn to draw. They'll pick things up from you, listen to your advice, and in reality only take what suits them away from it, meshing it into something as a foundation of their own style. Give someone a rulesheet and they'll abide by it, maybe try to abuse it, but usually accept decisions when a line is crossed as compared to flipping the table.
It might be a different story if we could be sure certain people were coming back with the intent to stick around (hint hint) but I still gotta say that if we need new members then those here making a ruleset is probably the right track for attempting that. Maybe it works out as a spin-off but it can't really be an affiliate with something that died off.
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Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 1:21 pm
H4X
Thing is, that kind of RP relies on trust, regular interaction, and friendships bound beyond the scope of an RP alone. It has plenty of random non combat interactions, as new people join and tell stories, while others leave as their time in the RP vanishes. Things can keep flowing because everyone's around on a regular enough basis for people to drop in and out for silly reasons such as "gotta run for school/class/work/bed" and others are online to keep it running when things are on a roll.
What we have is different schedules, people who work, and also we need new members when Gaia's been pretty lacking in giving people who seem to want to stick around long enough to learn to RP the fair style. Unfortunately that means the dice system, and class system, is the lesser evil here.
What does a person's daily schedule have to do with setting up a dice system? I'm talking about an annoying and needless system that wrecks a person's character. Tut explained a bit more into it from what his perspective was on it which is 'role for stats' type deal. That makes me stop and go, 'wait... so my character was a sensei in yami for years, and what if I roll a one?' Dice rolls, in general, are a matter of luck and chance, not of actual skill and hard work. If you mean it to be a part of a fighting bit in RP, then it's even worse. One day Joe Shmo the pizza guy decides to come up and slap the sense into Bruce Lee. Bruce Lee roles all 1s and Joe Shmo rolls all 10s. Joe Shmo smites Bruce Lee. Never would that ever happen, mind you, because in this scenario Joe Shmo never trained in his life and the heaviest he ever lifted was a can of tomato sauce. Now, where I WOULDN'T mind a stat system is if you allotted people a number of points depending on their starting rank. Starting: Peon, B.S. Student, Actually-Pays-Attention-Student, Butt-Munch, Sempai, Sensei, what have you. Depending on whatever status is listed, then awesome. Give them so many points, and allow them to allot them into certain areas on a spreadsheet that they can then gain points in throughout their time playing. 'Joe Shmo did 200 push ups, the admin decided he deserved to have an extra point to strength. Joe Shmo now has a strength rating of 2.' It's more control, and less random. Better than someone rolling a bunch of low luck dice throws or suddenly getting a bunch of high rolls that make them Gods. Instead, everyone is equal, and depending on their seniority it would show through how much more bad a** they are with additional points to allot.
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Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 2:07 pm
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Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 2:09 pm
sweatdrop Well since you focused in on that without the whole I suppose it wouldn't make much sense. The TL biggrin R for what I said more or less was this: "We need new people. This guild's slowed down it's post rate, Gaia's become a harder place to populate a good RP where you could trust people to play nice.'
Didn't mention in the previous post anything counting the fights this guild already has had over resolving how a fight/power comparison works out given clarification issues (know I've made the mistake in people going 'huh? what?' at what I post, and others have done the same with other 'trap' scenarios becoming god-mod-ish)
But anyway how that relates to the Dice system, is that it is random to an extent, but people do get unlucky as hell with bad days, a pro-golfer could mess up a swing on a mini-golf course and lose to a 3 year old. Would it happen often? Doubtful.
Competitive dice tends to match one person's roll against another. Pizza guy would probably roll a single 4 sided, against Bruce Lee three 20 sided. So pretty much pizza guy rolling a 4 when Lee got three 1's means that pizza guy probably hit him when he was dying of an allergic reaction.
Dice are random, skill is something that could make up for bad luck, but at the same time life can throw things your way that can't be stopped and will ruin one's life or talent. I know my dice luck is s**t, so yeah I'm not a big fan of it governing everything, but there's still player RP skill involved in setting up favorable situations (one where you have a better dice roll to work with then you opponent has to counter)
Straight stat point awarding isn't a bad idea mind you. It is more fair if there is a stat sheet, but I don't think we were going to run a stat-sheet system (Unless I'm blanking here?) and instead the classes were going to set a person's dice rolls for specific situations(I think?).
More or less even with the dice the goal is keeping to the old system where everyone is the same power as everyone else. (Every newbie has the same rolls as every other newbie) and as they add techniques (get trained in a class) they get a different set of skills (and better dice rolls for things) to work with based off what they know. The only people who would be considered powerful would be the Sensei characters (people above the advanced classes if I understand right?) and bosses who are put in by the DM type person. The old fights had ones that resolved themselves, but others were had someone whittling down another who kept dodging everything and vice versa until one player or the other just decided to take the loss.
Pretty much the promotion to a class would be the DM person choosing to award things to level a person up based off what they do. So it won't all be random on what a person does leveling them up. Though I hate to borrow from Naruto given we don't want to go that direction, 'you could lose and still become a chunin'
EDIT: But since Nar's here, and others will probably reply I'll let them describe stuff since I probably have only read slightly more then you
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Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 2:45 pm
essentially everything H4X has said I agree with (and that's funny because he also came in late, but he still got the general idea down fairly well)
a lot of what fen (?) has said is based off of wrong information
the dice roll thing is correct
we've already discussed how people god mod and it's time to get around it
like, "skill" fighting is bullshit because it ends up in people arguing OOC, and at that point it doesn't matter what was going on IC, whoever wins the OOC argument wins the fight, and it's ******** nonsense
we're not that close as friends, so we can't really trust eachother to be fair to one another, that's just the facts
and even more so with new members
in fact, yes this guild had a lot of buttbuddies back then, and it was a fairly large group of buttbuddies, but guess what, you guys still argued and fought eachother over RP posts because "my guy can do this" "no he can't!" "moooom!"
this isn't my opinion, this is fact, it's what occurred
where have you been all this time, and you come out of left field just like Tutsumi and that other girl (princess I think) going "no, I know what's best, I'm an oldie from different times, let's go back to how things were and pretend the landscape (Gaia) around us hasn't changed"
(to be fair, for the most part Tutsumi was on-board with the dice-roll, I'm js in general here)
that's the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results
me, h4x, ishi, and ookamimaru (gumby too technically) were the only ones here trying to RP and keep things going even with our busy schedules, so I'm frankly insulted that you three who HAVE been on gaia consistently show up all of the sudden and say these things without thinking
there's nothing more to discuss about the dice roll system (that we didn't even create yet)
and to show how wrong your information is by your skimming, you didn't even read the part where this is potentially 100+ years after GNA, so what sensei's are you talking about? this was said like three times by now
you didn't read anything haha
yea the old characters might still be alive by fusing their soul into their respective elements-- (eh, you know what just go read, I'm done repeating)
get your information straight before launching everyone into a meaningless discussion/argument, it's been decided already, we're not taking another step back, we have to keep moving forward
(I know you said "I apologize for not reading", but seriously go back and read, because you're kicking up a lot of dirt for no reason)
that's it, like, lol
go ahead and reply, but just know I'm going to repeat the same thing over and over, and so are you
that's why I went "lol" in the previous post because that's exactly what's going to happen here
we're not ditching the dice-rolling
I really didn't want to post after what H4X thoroughly explained, but I really believe this will continue in the wrong direction if I didn't
(it's only been like 4 posts and I can already tell this is going to spiral into nonsense and go way off topic with semantics, especially with it being propelled with wrong information on one side)
EDIT: here
http://www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?page=338&t=401790#370625037
12 pages or so, and keep in mind a lot has changed from beginning to end, we're not doing classes
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Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 4:03 pm
YAY, so we're agreed on this then. Whew. Also, I'm kinda glad Fen popped in and at least showed another view point. Perhaps she can continue to catch up on everything and help with guiding things nicely? Also, last I checked, I wasn't all that welcomed here in RP but because I've had a lot invested in this place I'd still pop in from time to time and see what's going on. Yes, I screwed people over by removing all of my info and caused a big to-do, but people forgot why what happened to me was wrong so I never pushed it. Simple as. There's no coming in from the left wing, so I'm quite insulted by that, Nar. Regardless, let's move on, yes? Since classes are listed as being out, and we're on the topic of a thread, I do believe we already have a GNA mule. I'll go through my accounts/passwords and double check. Who will start to draft the intro post and the format for the second? We'll need a light background story and a description of things.
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Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 4:51 pm
yes, let's move on (unless Fen wanted to add something)
and if that wasn't your intention then I'm sorry for grouping you in with it, that was what I saw from my point of view at the time
I got really upset that last post, anyways
yea that's a good idea, could share a mule, didn't think of that
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Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 5:47 pm
Naru, I wasn't trying to get on anyone's bad side, and I sent H4X a PM apologizing. I was being brash, but honestly it was based off of not the story at all-- I didn't know of really care about how that changed because that's something I wouldn't argue with. I don't know why you came at me about the story when it was not even something that I brought up, I was just bringing up what I saw in a list from a recap one page back about what was agreed for the system and from skimming a few comments past that.
I honestly was excited for this; GNA was my first Roleplay, and the first place I learned how to. I sucked at first; I really did; but the nice people kept me there and kept me trying until I was literate. I have a lot of history here, I rebooted this place several times in the past myself, and it was the same situation; people weren't there for that either. It was the select few who showed up, but I never blamed someone for missing when it became active again. I didn't notice any of those reboots you guys did simply because Guilds don't notify anyone and there were not any mass PMs sent out from the admin area that said 'we're alive again.' I would have at least peaked in if I noticed, just like I'm here right now because I found out people were here. This is my home and I wanted to come back.
I don't mind a lot of change, I'm fine with change and all of that, but from what I saw it was so different and barely even used the idea of the GNA that the question is, why are you doing this as the GNA then? It should be its own monster; refer back, yeah, but it's not the same, it's very very different.
The classes thing isn't so bad if you use it in a way that works closer to what you guys want; you was control to stop people from being over the top. Thing is, you don't want to have it so controlling that people glance at it and go 'fudge this' and not look much further. I have an idea that can be looked over if you guys want.
Basically instead of a restrictive class system, have a type system. I.E...
Strength, Moderate, Weakness
Distance, Close Range, Magic
Basically in that case you're more a sharpshooter type that relies on bow and arrow / guns / what have you. You have sharper eyes, sharper ears. If it came down to it you can protect yourself somewhat reliably with hand to hand / swords / daggers / weapon of choice or whatever they practiced with which would give them moderate reflexes, maybe more agility and endurance and being more sure on their feet, but not compared to a master or that art. They never found reason for magic because they have all of the tools they need, but they may have looked into very small spells like enhancements for their weapons, or light healing, etc. But nothing that can be used in excess.
The way I would see it, Tutsumi for example would have been Close Range, Magic, Distance or something close to that seeing as he relies on his Sakura petals and all of that to a certain degree, but he is a close range fighter by build. If he does anything from a distance it's not like sniper range, it's still within the playing field and mostly by magical means with a 'tracking' kind of system, not with actual kill with a straight shooting weapon.
Is that something that people may be kind of interested in that can in the end be used to advance the dice roll system? (Like a base bonus of some sort, and then the roll after that adds on top. Just an idea of a way it could be integrated.)
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Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 6:11 pm
yea sorry I got heated
can you explain that one more time with the strength through magic?
if you can organize it a little more, I didn't fully understand
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Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 6:28 pm
Certainly.
I actually expanded on it in my head since then. Say you go with dice rolls/ a D-20 is a massive varience, even D-10s are pretty big. I would suggest D-6s. Say it's a single dice Vs. three dice. Then it's a 1-6 against a 3-18 which still give the opportunity of overwhelming while at the same time having a slimmer chance of failing than otherwise noted. You can still fail out, but it's less likely with the more die. Additional die can be brought in or the amount of die can be discussed, I'll just give examples as a base atm.
Say you had three levels of expertise. This can be expanded on later to be more specific as there are a lot of things you can be strong or weak at.
Strength (3 D-6) - Something you might have practiced your whole life that you may be masterful at. Let's put Robin Hood as an example. His strength is in his bowmanship. He can shoot dead center and shoot moving targets, and he cannot be bested in competition (at least in the famous competition in the books.)
Moderate (2 D-6) - Something you have practiced that you are not an expert at, but you're not completely dumb at either. So say Robin Hood could not always expect to keep a distance, eventually he would have to use his agility to dodge, his strength to fight fist to fist, etc. That could have been his moderate also considered even a 'back up plan' in his case.
Weakness (1 D-6) - Something that you might be able to to to a slight degree, but it's not very powerful. Different example because I can't think of something for Robin Hood, so say you do magic. Well, you can't do anything that really hurts, but say you can strengthen a weapon by using magic to increase the durability or sharpness to a small degree, or you can slow bleeding with a minimal knowledge in something. Basically, you know it, but you suck at it, but with the right roll is can be something at least slightly useful.
What my brother suggested actually while I was typing this was that there be 3 strengths, 5 moderates, 7 weaknesses. That way you have the ability to round it out to specifics like, strong in use of swords, moderate in use of knives, weak in use of guns, etc. What have you for whatever setting. That would also go into strong healing magic, moderate destructive magic, weak conjuration magic, etc.
It would be a way to make that balance you guys strive for and be skill oriented with the rolls.
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Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 6:45 pm
^ I like this idea quite a bit. I only have ONE thing about it though.
What all are we going to chunk into it to fill those 15 slots?
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Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 7:03 pm
Leave it up to the imagination. Make a base list, and then they can make something up themselves. In the end the profile has to be accepted before it can be used, so if they put something in that is not acceptable then don't count it. those strengths and weaknesses could even could for tactics, and physical abilities in battle, teleportation, speed, etc. if they feel like making that a specific strength or weakness.
Also, if you wanted to get fancy, you could have a 'godlike' ability. Something you would not have to roll for that your character is really good at. Doesn't mean there are not drawbacks as in 'if you do it too much your head will explode' or something, but that you can perform to a peak without rolling. You would not be able to use something that that in a battle though.
I'm going to use Fenris as an example. She master shadowmancy. She can completely manipulate it to her whim, travel using it, etc.
If she wants to fight with it thought you have to roll based on your strengths, moderates, weaknesses. Say she conjured a staff; she would need to roll in her expertise in using staffs. There is only a certainty that the level of shadowmancy that she knows would make her conjured staff as durable as she wants it, but there is no certainty in how it would be used. Say she used it in an abstract manner; roll a dice for alteration or destructive magic.
Kind of like, you're a master in that art, but how you use it is where the dice would come in if you catch my drift there. For Tutsumi it would probably be allure; Tutsumi always gets the ladies. :B
The system above is actually proven to work pretty well. A few friends are making a game that uses a similar system, but with way more freedoms and way more dice, and the stats fields.
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