Welcome to Gaia! ::

Naruto - The Forbidden Scrolls 2017

Back to Guilds

A Engaging Roleplay Guild based on the Expansive Naruto Universe 

Tags: Naruto, Shippuden, D100, Custom, System 

Reply main
OOC Goto Page: [] [<<] [<<] [<] 1 2 3 ... 121 122 123 124 125 126 ... 1206 1207 1208 1209 [>] [>>] [>>] [»|]

Quick Reply

Enter both words below, separated by a space:

Can't read the text? Click here

Submit

darklord_avalon

Sexy Muse

21,650 Points
  • That One Hero 500
  • Happy 13th, Gaia Online! 50
  • Perfect Attendance 400
PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:57 pm


lols fair enough yea. alright then gnight, I think I will go to bed too, maybe go draw I dunno xP
PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:10 pm


goodnight Sai

Hi there Ava-chan

come play

Blessed Explorer

9,640 Points
  • Gaian 50
  • Somebody Likes You 100
  • Survivor 150

darklord_avalon

Sexy Muse

21,650 Points
  • That One Hero 500
  • Happy 13th, Gaia Online! 50
  • Perfect Attendance 400
PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:26 pm


heh, hi and bye play-chan ^.^ gnight y'all
PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:30 pm


oh ok goodnight Ava-chan, sweet dreams

come play

Blessed Explorer

9,640 Points
  • Gaian 50
  • Somebody Likes You 100
  • Survivor 150

Dark Bunny Lord

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:20 am


ssAntonio
Eh, wait... What sense does it make to have +20 to defend accuracy and +20 to accuracy? Wouldn't accuracy cover defend accuracy as a general thumb... making that effect not as effective.
It makes plenty sense, you wouldn't get both illusionary and real clones on the same effect, it wouldn't make sense.

Illusionary clones are only good for defense since only the real you can hit, thus their accuracy bonus is limited to defense (since it's still hard to tell which one is the real you).
Real clones are good for attack and defense thus giving a bonus to all accuracy since all can actually hit (thus why they also boost damage).
The difference is that real clones cost 3 more points per rank than illusionary clones making the amount of buff you can get with them in comparison on a skill much more limited. Ie, less of a buff, but they also buff damage and buff attack.

Essentially your only going to be getting one or the other. There'd be no point in getting both.

I'll quote the rules for clones:
---Illusionary // For every 2pts you spend you may create one Illusionary copy of yourself. Your defense accuracy is increased by +20 per illusionary copy as your foe tries to determine "which" is the real thing. Whenever a foe fails to hit do to the bonus (ie if you have 5, +100, and defend within that 10% difference granted by the buff), they destroy one of the Illusionary copies and thus the buff goes down 20. You may not have more clones than the skills level /5.
These may be sustained.
---Real // Real copies do everything Illusionary copies do and more, applying everything stated above and below. They cost 5pts per copy to make however instead of 2pts per. You may attack with real copies which causes a few things. First your damage rises by +20 per copy and you also gain +20 accuracy per copy. Note this buff replaces the normal +20 defense accuracy buff.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 8:45 am


Dark Bunny Lord
Essentially your only going to be getting one or the other. There'd be no point in getting both.


This is only about clones, right?

The Blue Blue


Dark Bunny Lord

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 10:00 am


The Blue Blue
Dark Bunny Lord
Essentially your only going to be getting one or the other. There'd be no point in getting both.


This is only about clones, right?
Yes. It's simply stating that your not likely to have both illusionary and real within the jutsu (mind you it's possible but a bit silly).
The difference betweent he two is illusionary give less bonuses but cost much less, while the real give more varied and more potent bonuses but for over double the cost.
Ie for 2per level illusionary will give you a defense buff, for 5per level real will give you a defense, offense, and damage buff.
So as far as min/maxing goes the illusionary will win out for the one field, but for quick comboing and covering all your bases the real will win out.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:15 pm


I would like to argue that illusion clones could effect my ability to strike the opponent. In order to illustrate this, I give you the following example.

Kenta produces 3 illusion clones. They surround Sai and then all of them move forward as if they were going to attack. This effects Sai's ability to block my attack because he isn't sure which attack is the real Kenta.

Also, while the clones are illusions, in theory they could still be used to cast a genjutsu technique.

The problem I have at the moment is that with things how they are illusion clones make zero sense. Why would I bother ever using the illusion clones when I could instead make real clones at slightly over double the cost and have them offer not only defensive accuracy buffs, but also offensive accuracy buffs (already twice as useful) as well as a damage buff, and as well as 20 additional damage points?

Similarly, assuming that "Clone" is not a buff all of it's own and instead it is the buffs that it grants that count towards your buffs, why would I ever use real clones?

Buff
Damage +50 to ninjutsu (1 point) +12 Accuracy ninjutsu (4 points) does two and a half times more damage and a little more than half of the accuracy. Similarly, I can chose how to spend those points and how to split them, making the standard buff more versatile than a clone. What's more so, is that if I made it more specific and said that it only worked on lightning skills. it would be +75 damage, and +16 accuracy, and it doesn't appear that the clone's buffs can be narrowed in that way.

The Blue Blue


Dark Bunny Lord

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:24 pm


The Blue Blue
I would like to argue that illusion clones could effect my ability to strike the opponent. In order to illustrate this, I give you the following example.

Kenta produces 3 illusion clones. They surround Sai and then all of them move forward as if they were going to attack. This effects Sai's ability to block my attack because he isn't sure which attack is the real Kenta.

Also, while the clones are illusions, in theory they could still be used to cast a genjutsu technique.

The problem I have at the moment is that with things how they are illusion clones make zero sense. Why would I bother ever using the illusion clones when I could instead make real clones at slightly over double the cost and have them offer not only defensive accuracy buffs, but also offensive accuracy buffs (already twice as useful) as well as a damage buff, and as well as 20 additional damage points?

Similarly, assuming that "Clone" is not a buff all of it's own and instead it is the buffs that it grants that count towards your buffs, why would I ever use real clones?

Buff
Damage +50 to ninjutsu (1 point) +12 Accuracy ninjutsu (4 points) does two and a half times more damage and a little more than half of the accuracy. Similarly, I can chose how to spend those points and how to split them, making the standard buff more versatile than a clone. What's more so, is that if I made it more specific and said that it only worked on lightning skills. it would be +75 damage, and +16 accuracy, and it doesn't appear that the clone's buffs can be narrowed in that way.
Clonse are buffs of there own.
A single level of any type of clone is more effective than spending levels in a global buff (a limited version buff can be numerically more beneficial but as said it's limited).
For example 5pts in buff is +10 accuracy or +15 defense accuracy.

Illusion clones and real clones give more than this, the catch? They can be destroyed making the jutsu less effective or have to be re-activated more often thus costing more chakra.

Now as for real clones compaired to illusion clones and the benefits of each.
Illusion clones are better for maxing your defense accuracy, but real clones give an overall higher global buff.
For example, a level 100 skill.

All invested into illusion clones would give (2pts = +20, 20x50 purchases =) +1,000 defensive accuracy.
All invested into the real clones would give +400 attack accuracy and defense accuracy, +400 damage.
The real clones give a total buff number of 1,200 slightly higher than the illusion clones, however it's not maximized for optimal buff potential as the illusion clones are, and that's the reason both have there ups and downs.
Your paying less per point of buff for the real clones (since you get +60 per 5 pts where as with illusion your getting around +50 per 5pts), but the illusion clones as a result will maximize efficiency.

----------------------

As shown earlier normal buffs would be more costly than either of these in terms of chakra spent per point of buff.
However the diffence is that as your struck in combat (if you succeed only by the % granted by the clones, ie if you'd get struck had you not had them activated) the clones buffs start to diminish.
So normal buffs are NOT more efficient, they grant less buff bonus per point spent but have the advantage of lacking the degrading quality the clones have as a drawback.

Your example is a downright misrepresentation as it limits it to one style.
Sure, it does an efficient amount compared to clones (for your one chosen style)... but it does 0 bonus to every other type of damage or accuracy. If your a character that's not 100% nin (focusing like that as shown before can be a drawback do to defending against different types and limited effect choices) then the clones are more efficient until they start to degrade.

To put it simply, you can't make them the same as normal buffs in terms of exact effiecency and exact drawback or they'd be the same exact effect and pointless to have. As it stands they're situationaly better and situationaly worse, as they should be.
--------------------

As for why illusion clones don't give an attack buff. Yes, it would make some logical sense to give them an overall accuracy buff, however to balance the numbers in game mechanics it was left as only a defensive measure.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:35 pm


When you make Real Clones, do you or don't you get the +20 to Defense. Because the effect text says it does everything that Illusionary does but it also says that it it replaces the defense accuracy with regular accuracy. So which is it so I know what text to remove.

ssAntonio
Captain


Dark Bunny Lord

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:37 pm


ssAntonio
When you make Real Clones, do you or don't you get the +20 to Defense. Because the effect text says it does everything that Illusionary does but it also says that it it replaces the defense accuracy with regular accuracy. So which is it so I know what text to remove.
You do, the reason it says it replaces it is I didn't want people to think you where getting +20 accuracy per point and then +20 more defense accuracy per point (ie +40 defense and +20 atk, instead it's just +20 global)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:40 pm


So if I have 1 Illsuionary and 1 Real the effect is:

(+20 Def)(+20 Global)(+20 Damage)

ssAntonio
Captain


Dark Bunny Lord

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:31 pm


ssAntonio
So if I have 1 Illsuionary and 1 Real the effect is:

(+20 Def)(+20 Global)(+20 Damage)
No +20/20/20 would be 1 real by itself.
If you had a level seven skill, spent 2 pts illusion 5pt real, then you'd have +40/+20/+20.

The real clones get everything the illusion do, basically it means the effect is the same but the +20 also effects attack and damage, not just defense.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:44 pm


Dark Bunny Lord
ssAntonio
So if I have 1 Illsuionary and 1 Real the effect is:

(+20 Def)(+20 Global)(+20 Damage)
No +20/20/20 would be 1 real by itself.
If you had a level seven skill, spent 2 pts illusion 5pt real, then you'd have +40/+20/+20.

The real clones get everything the illusion do, basically it means the effect is the same but the +20 also effects attack and damage, not just defense.


Alright, and are clones considered a separate buff or is it if you have a higher, pre-existing buff you take that one instead.

ssAntonio
Captain


The Blue Blue

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:47 pm


Dark Bunny Lord
Your example is a downright misrepresentation as it limits it to one style.
Sure, it does an efficient amount compared to clones (for your one chosen style)... but it does 0 bonus to every other type of damage or accuracy. If your a character that's not 100% nin (focusing like that as shown before can be a drawback do to defending against different types and limited effect choices) then the clones are more efficient until they start to degrade.


Taijutsu:
I and all of my illusions charge forward to attack at the same time, causing my opponent to not know where to defend from.

Ninjtusu:
I and all of my illusions make hand seals and appear to make magical attacks of some variety, but only one of the attacks is real as the others are illusion

Genjtusu:
The clones, being illusions themselves, surround the opponent and make crazy hand seals that the opponent is meant to look at to trap them even further in the genjutsu. It works because they are being used to amplify the genjutsu trap which makes perfect sense since they are genjtusu themselves.

Item:
See whatever style fits best.


I have now illustrated the example with every style.
Reply
main

Goto Page: [] [<<] [<<] [<] 1 2 3 ... 121 122 123 124 125 126 ... 1206 1207 1208 1209 [>] [>>] [>>] [»|]
 
Manage Your Items
Other Stuff
Get GCash
Offers
Get Items
More Items
Where Everyone Hangs Out
Other Community Areas
Virtual Spaces
Fun Stuff
Gaia's Games
Mini-Games
Play with GCash
Play with Platinum