Sefyrion
(?)Community Member
Invisible Explorer
Offline
- Posted: Mon, 09 Apr 2012 23:58:54 +0000
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NOTE 1: This post has been edited for clarity and to reinforce that this post is a response to the concern that the posts in question might have been written by a Staff member. There is no confirmation at this time on whether or not the mysterious poster was/is in fact a Staff member.
NOTE 2: Since the posting of this topic, the thread that these posts were referenced and pulled from have since disappeared out of public viewing.
NOTE3: Last comments and a final rundown:
Concerns have been brought up about how this thread has thrown the person/poster in question under the proverbial bus and dragged them through the mud.
When this thread was started, I knew not if this person was in fact real or not and what my main concern was was in addressing the fact that I felt that IF whatever had been said had really been said by some real anonymous Staff member in public, then it was inappropriate.
If there was a real name attached to this person, if I knew who, exactly, the poster was without a doubt, I would have gone ahead and submitted this issue directly and privately to the Admin team as was suggested by another poster as making an issue about this in a public forum would be directly affecting the person in question - actual name and all. This person, however, was and still is anonymous and this thread addresses them, too, as an anonymous entity.
This person - whoever they are - felt obliged to publicly share how they personally felt about certain members of the userbase and how they personally felt about certain features on the site. As their response was aired in public, I responded publicly as well and with an 'if' clause directed at the possibility that the person might not be a real Staff member.
Though some people think that my motivations were born out of cruelty and malice, my actual intention was to simply express my personal opinion about the matters at hand and why I felt the way I did. Basically, if whatever was said had been said by an actual Staff member, then as a member of the general userbase and a paying customer of this website, I was not personally happy to read such a thing being aired in a public space. Period.
NEVER have I suggested firing the person responsible and NEVER have I appended a name to the person or dared to say that this person in question is definitely a Staff member.
When I say and have said 'inappropriate', 'inappropriate' literally means 'inappropriate' which means, 'you really shouldn't have done that'.
Asking for something to be done was and is asking for the mysterious posters' expressed opinions to be officially addressed - literally, does Staff really think we should be hating them for the Backwings project and why, for example, since the poster spoke for the Creative team involved in the project - but again, NOWHERE did I say that the person should be fired or have any specific action taken against them as it isn't my place or part to suggest or say any of those things.
I was disgruntled to read the things I did being expressed in a public place and I explained my reasons why and I asked if the issue could be addressed (again, look at my response to the Backwings and Alchemy comment the poster made for an example) and that's it.
If I had honestly intended to be malicious and vindictive in posting the things I did, I would have and could have chosen to use a mule to post with instead of my primary where I would be open to and have received plenty of direct criticism. By posting with this account, I am also accepting the accountability and responsibility for my actions and words.
Related to that, if the Admin team thinks I have stepped out of line in addressing this issue and asking questions in the way that I have, I welcome them to address me and this thread directly and hold me accountable and I sincerely apologize for stepping out of line.
That said, these are my final thoughts on this thread:
At the time that I am writing this edit, I STILL do not know who this person is and I STILL refuse to say for sure if this poster was, indeed, a Staff member or not. The thoughts expressed in my OP and in my other posts are MY own thoughts and opinions and reasons and not the thoughts of other posters/users here on Gaia.
IF the quoted comments were indeed expressed by a Staff member here at Gaia, then what was said was, in my honest opinion, inappropriate/said in poor taste (addressing the prevalence of crazy people on Gaia) for someone claiming to be a Staff member and lacked sensitivity in addressing an issue (Alchemy and Backwings) that was already known to be volatile.
Yes, Backwings was supposed to be a Quest and Quests can definitely be a challenge, but airing out in public that your userbase and customer base should be hating you and that this was the intention all along really makes me go gonk . If what the person said was true, then why make a feature that you want people to get involved with and encourage people to get involved with... but only if they're infuriated with you and infuriated with you for months on end? confused
Yes, everyone laughs at 'crazy' things and 'crazy' people from time to time including the 'crazy' people themselves, more than likely, but if those 'crazy' people are in a company's userbase and customer base no matter how small a minority and someone is outing themselves out to be a Staff member in a public manner who works with said userbase and customer base, then it is not cool to ridicule them. Even in jest, even in truth, even if someone thinks that people are going to agree with them, even if someone thinks that the place they're airing these thoughts out at will make these thoughts more acceptable, these people are still their customers and users nonetheless and speaking poorly of them does not - in my opinion - reflect well on the company they are representing.
That said, most everyone has already said their piece and vocalized their thoughts on this matter to the point that the same things are being recycled and so I have decided to request to have this thread locked.
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NOTE 1: This post has been edited for clarity and to reinforce that this post is a response to the concern that the posts in question might have been written by a Staff member. There is no confirmation at this time on whether or not the mysterious poster was/is in fact a Staff member.
NOTE 2: Since the posting of this topic, the thread that these posts were referenced and pulled from have since disappeared out of public viewing.
NOTE3: Last comments and a final rundown:
Concerns have been brought up about how this thread has thrown the person/poster in question under the proverbial bus and dragged them through the mud.
When this thread was started, I knew not if this person was in fact real or not and what my main concern was was in addressing the fact that I felt that IF whatever had been said had really been said by some real anonymous Staff member in public, then it was inappropriate.
If there was a real name attached to this person, if I knew who, exactly, the poster was without a doubt, I would have gone ahead and submitted this issue directly and privately to the Admin team as was suggested by another poster as making an issue about this in a public forum would be directly affecting the person in question - actual name and all. This person, however, was and still is anonymous and this thread addresses them, too, as an anonymous entity.
This person - whoever they are - felt obliged to publicly share how they personally felt about certain members of the userbase and how they personally felt about certain features on the site. As their response was aired in public, I responded publicly as well and with an 'if' clause directed at the possibility that the person might not be a real Staff member.
Though some people think that my motivations were born out of cruelty and malice, my actual intention was to simply express my personal opinion about the matters at hand and why I felt the way I did. Basically, if whatever was said had been said by an actual Staff member, then as a member of the general userbase and a paying customer of this website, I was not personally happy to read such a thing being aired in a public space. Period.
NEVER have I suggested firing the person responsible and NEVER have I appended a name to the person or dared to say that this person in question is definitely a Staff member.
When I say and have said 'inappropriate', 'inappropriate' literally means 'inappropriate' which means, 'you really shouldn't have done that'.
Asking for something to be done was and is asking for the mysterious posters' expressed opinions to be officially addressed - literally, does Staff really think we should be hating them for the Backwings project and why, for example, since the poster spoke for the Creative team involved in the project - but again, NOWHERE did I say that the person should be fired or have any specific action taken against them as it isn't my place or part to suggest or say any of those things.
I was disgruntled to read the things I did being expressed in a public place and I explained my reasons why and I asked if the issue could be addressed (again, look at my response to the Backwings and Alchemy comment the poster made for an example) and that's it.
If I had honestly intended to be malicious and vindictive in posting the things I did, I would have and could have chosen to use a mule to post with instead of my primary where I would be open to and have received plenty of direct criticism. By posting with this account, I am also accepting the accountability and responsibility for my actions and words.
Related to that, if the Admin team thinks I have stepped out of line in addressing this issue and asking questions in the way that I have, I welcome them to address me and this thread directly and hold me accountable and I sincerely apologize for stepping out of line.
That said, these are my final thoughts on this thread:
At the time that I am writing this edit, I STILL do not know who this person is and I STILL refuse to say for sure if this poster was, indeed, a Staff member or not. The thoughts expressed in my OP and in my other posts are MY own thoughts and opinions and reasons and not the thoughts of other posters/users here on Gaia.
IF the quoted comments were indeed expressed by a Staff member here at Gaia, then what was said was, in my honest opinion, inappropriate/said in poor taste (addressing the prevalence of crazy people on Gaia) for someone claiming to be a Staff member and lacked sensitivity in addressing an issue (Alchemy and Backwings) that was already known to be volatile.
Yes, Backwings was supposed to be a Quest and Quests can definitely be a challenge, but airing out in public that your userbase and customer base should be hating you and that this was the intention all along really makes me go gonk . If what the person said was true, then why make a feature that you want people to get involved with and encourage people to get involved with... but only if they're infuriated with you and infuriated with you for months on end? confused
Yes, everyone laughs at 'crazy' things and 'crazy' people from time to time including the 'crazy' people themselves, more than likely, but if those 'crazy' people are in a company's userbase and customer base no matter how small a minority and someone is outing themselves out to be a Staff member in a public manner who works with said userbase and customer base, then it is not cool to ridicule them. Even in jest, even in truth, even if someone thinks that people are going to agree with them, even if someone thinks that the place they're airing these thoughts out at will make these thoughts more acceptable, these people are still their customers and users nonetheless and speaking poorly of them does not - in my opinion - reflect well on the company they are representing.
That said, most everyone has already said their piece and vocalized their thoughts on this matter to the point that the same things are being recycled and so I have decided to request to have this thread locked.
=======================================
Dear Gaia Team (especially Lanzer),
Apparently, someone claiming to be a member of your Staff and a member of the Creative team decided to give their response as to what they think is 'appropriate' (and speaking for the majority of the Creative team besides) about the whole Alchemy shebang on the SomethingAwful website and posted this gem which was posted in THIS THREAD here.
Furthermore, they posted quite a few other posts that... well... sound rather bad if they really came from someone working at Gaia. sweatdrop
Starting from the Alchemy-related post:
Hi From Gaia
I don't know, actually. All of us? I think there's general agreement among the creative team that you should have to work your a** off and probably get really goddamn angry at us for months and months to get them. I'm not directly involved in alchemy, but my personal opinion is that wings should be a reward for the most grueling effort you could possibly make. I couldn't tell you what others think (unless I walk over and ask them).
A few questions and thoughts:
1) WHO is that person?
Please tell us they don't work for Gaia! gonk
1) WHAT kind of an attitude is that?
If they DO work for Gaia, that's... a really bad attitude to have and if they DON'T work for Gaia and are simply being imposters, I'm concerned about what kind of image this gives to Gaia and its Staff members. sweatdrop
That said, it makes me wonder:
2) WOULD you WANT us to be blisteringly furious at you? Really? THAT would be what you consider to be 'REASONABLE'?
I'd like to say no, but given, some previous communication we have been given from Staff members in the past... sweatdrop
Related to that...
3) Grueling work is one thing, but the way the statement was said it makes it sound like THEY (or you, if the person is a member of Staff like they claim they are) are the only ones who understand what it means to be 'slaving away at work'.
This isn't the first time something similar in sentiment has been aired and discussed and with a similar attitude and quite frankly, it rather bothers me (and also worries me that this really was posted by an employee of Gaia).
If they're actually Staff, they're not the only people on Gaia who WORK. The difference is, Gaians are working in places other than Gaia.
For EMPLOYEES of Gaia, Gaia is the 'grueling' work and employees get paid to do what they do.
For US, Gaia has always been 'fun' away from Real Life work and obligations and whatevers and was always supposed to be 'fun'.
Implementing a system that forces even the richest and supposedly most able-bodied Gaian to slave away at this 'grueling' work at a place which is supposed to be 'fun' is not even 'grueling' anymore or about working hard. Rather, it's about ego and personal opinions getting in the way of what a project was MEANT to be since its first inception years and years ago.
Like a grocery store refusing to suck up the cost of accepting credit cards and grudgingly accepting them but with a FEE that shouldn't have been charged in the first place, the tone of the post suggests that the 'cost' of the Alchemy project and Backwings project is being passed on to the userbase in the form of, "WE suffered SOOO much to get this done, so YOU SHOULD, TOO!"
To which I would say, screw it.
Also, I don't get it.
Seeing as we asked for the Backwings since the beginning of Gaia and we asked for them as a collective - as a community on a whole, not as a handful of elite extremist Gaians.... Why, then, is there so much insistence on making Backwings a project so exclusionary to the point where even those who ARE able ARE the elite and the very few and who also are absolutely furious at you and are demanding compensation?
Gaia moved towards pay-to-play here at Gaia and wanted us - the userbase - to pay to play and a lot of us did, including me. Hell, I donated back when donations were still called donations.
And honestly? Now that Gaia took my money and took their money, Gaia needs to deliver.
Know what?
It really feels like Gaia HASN'T delivered in some crucial matters and with that post up there, it sure sounds like the customer service and customer support is non-existant and don't go hand-in-hand with Gaia despite the fact that Gaia keeps on taking our money.
Basically, TLDR, that imposter - if that is who they are - right there isn't exactly doing Gaia any favors in its PR department and it's really giving off the impression that truly, there is no discussion and will never be any discussion in regards to making much-needed changes to the Alchemy system as it stands because your own Staff think that - for whatever unknown reason - every Gaian needs to be angrier than a hive of bees, forking over $500+ of Real Life money, bleeding their multiwhateveraire gold accounts dry, and spending insane amounts of time before the Staff thinks that they're worthy of Backwings.
Yeah. Definitely awesome and a bit worrisome. sweatdrop
To backtrack and give some additional background, this user also posted THIS at the same forum:
Hi From Gaia
Hey guys,
I work at Gaia Online. A friend of mine just sent me this thread and I've been enjoying it.
This is a phony account, but I've been on Something Awful for about ten years. This fake account isn't so much out of embarrassment or anything, it's just because I want to keep my work life and my SA life separate. I'm sure plenty of people will know who I am based on this and I'll probably get "outed" pretty quickly, but oh well!
A few random things first, but people can ask me questions about pretty much whatever:
- I got this job pretty randomly. I wanted to move to the Bay Area, and a recruiter talked to me about getting in on sort of an entry-level role here. When I interviewed, they noticed that my resume was pretty heavy on an unrelated skill, so I quickly got bumped up into real-job status and have been happily doing it ever since.
- Gaia is a pretty cool place to work. There are lots of very talented people in this building. Many of my former coworkers have gone on to be superstars at much bigger companies. Other former coworkers were complete nutcases, but they're in the vast minority.
- It's just a day job to me, but it's often a really fun day job. I get to be creative and hang out with a lot of cool people. Lately we're working just as much on Facebook/mobile games as we work on the Gaia Online website, and we've had lots of success there. Some very cool new mobile games should be coming out soon from us.
- If you're wondering: no, I don't use the Gaia Online site myself. It's not the kind of thing I'm particularly interested in, since I don't like anime or forum roleplaying or any of that stuff, but that doesn't mean I don't have fun working here and entertaining a bunch of kids. I guess it's like working for some goofy Nickelodeon show or something.
- It's sort of an open secret that there's a significant overlap between Gaia Online and Something Awful. Lots of cool Something Awful dudes have come and gone in the past. I'm sitting across from one now. Hi, Something Awful guy.
You guys can ask stuff if you want.
I work at Gaia Online. A friend of mine just sent me this thread and I've been enjoying it.
This is a phony account, but I've been on Something Awful for about ten years. This fake account isn't so much out of embarrassment or anything, it's just because I want to keep my work life and my SA life separate. I'm sure plenty of people will know who I am based on this and I'll probably get "outed" pretty quickly, but oh well!
A few random things first, but people can ask me questions about pretty much whatever:
- I got this job pretty randomly. I wanted to move to the Bay Area, and a recruiter talked to me about getting in on sort of an entry-level role here. When I interviewed, they noticed that my resume was pretty heavy on an unrelated skill, so I quickly got bumped up into real-job status and have been happily doing it ever since.
- Gaia is a pretty cool place to work. There are lots of very talented people in this building. Many of my former coworkers have gone on to be superstars at much bigger companies. Other former coworkers were complete nutcases, but they're in the vast minority.
- It's just a day job to me, but it's often a really fun day job. I get to be creative and hang out with a lot of cool people. Lately we're working just as much on Facebook/mobile games as we work on the Gaia Online website, and we've had lots of success there. Some very cool new mobile games should be coming out soon from us.
- If you're wondering: no, I don't use the Gaia Online site myself. It's not the kind of thing I'm particularly interested in, since I don't like anime or forum roleplaying or any of that stuff, but that doesn't mean I don't have fun working here and entertaining a bunch of kids. I guess it's like working for some goofy Nickelodeon show or something.
- It's sort of an open secret that there's a significant overlap between Gaia Online and Something Awful. Lots of cool Something Awful dudes have come and gone in the past. I'm sitting across from one now. Hi, Something Awful guy.
You guys can ask stuff if you want.
And I can't help but respond to the bolded:
Hi.
Firstly: So I guess they/you don't care that people have come across what they/you have posted and decided to stick it up here in the Site Feedback forum for everyone else to see, right? Okay, then. Glad to see that there won't be any hurt feelings on account of this.
Secondly, and more of as a reminder than anything else: Someone who is NOT a kid who first came to Gaia as an adult? That's me. That's also a lot of other Gaians out there. That's also your bigger paying userbase and potentially bigger paying userbase, too, in case you did not stop to think about this as adults = have spare money and kids = do not have spare money.
If nobody donated to Gaia in the beginning, if nobody decided to keep donating later, and if nobody decided that Gaia was/is still worth it to keep dropping money into, Gaia would be gone.
Just saying for posterity.
Also, if I had never found anything to love or enjoy about Gaia, I never would have kept donating and then opted in for AutoCash before I ended up opting out. I honestly do still love Gaia, but... ouch. sweatdrop
And another post HERE, TOO, too, which is another gem:
Hi From Gaia
I laugh at them in exactly the same way I'd laugh at them if I didn't work at Gaia, I just get more opportunities to laugh at them on a day to day basis.
Actually, to tell you the truth, the Gaia forums/community isn't something I really interact with on a day to day basis. I'm constantly checking out the "Site Feedback" and "Gaia Community Discussion" forums just to check on how people are responding to the stuff we do, but simply working here doesn't automatically mean dipping into the otaku otherkin underbelly very much. I can't remember the last time I actually took a voluntary jaunt through the Gaia forums. It's not like dudes dressed as My Little Ponies are always traipsing up into the office and getting up in our grills.
Actually, to tell you the truth, the Gaia forums/community isn't something I really interact with on a day to day basis. I'm constantly checking out the "Site Feedback" and "Gaia Community Discussion" forums just to check on how people are responding to the stuff we do, but simply working here doesn't automatically mean dipping into the otaku otherkin underbelly very much. I can't remember the last time I actually took a voluntary jaunt through the Gaia forums. It's not like dudes dressed as My Little Ponies are always traipsing up into the office and getting up in our grills.
I think everyone can laugh at themselves at some point or another and make fun of themselves, even, but really, now?
This whole, "I'm better than those Gaians are," crap and "I'm not pathetic like those Gaians are," crap is not only unprofessional but also offensive.
I really REALLY hope someone from Gaia didn't post that, but if they did... sweatdrop
Ironically, there is another post HERE, which says:
Hi From Gaia
Not sure what the plans are for zOMG, and I suppose I'm probably not at much liberty to tell everyone what we're working on in general.
I work on the creative side of Gaia.
I work on the creative side of Gaia.
ORLY?
And yet they're/you're at the liberty to say all the other things they've/you've said?
SOMEHOW, they/you can't talk about actual work-work and progress made in work-work, but they/you can blast away by airing their/your personal opinions without affecting their/your contract and NDA?
Awesome.
Last I looked - and yes, I AM part of the working force - off-color remarks and commentary and opinions aired while claiming representation of a company = equally bad thing to do, especially for PR. Being an imposter and claiming they're Staff and badmouthing while they're at it = libel.
But, hey, what do I know, right?
According to the person who's claiming to be Staff, I'm just some kind of otaku otherkin lowlife who has nothing better to do than dress up as My Little Ponies and give you oh-so-awesome Staff members a headache.
So... yeah.
Just... can someone please address this? Honestly address this?
If all of it sounded like complete and utter BS, I never would have posted any of this to begin with. The problem is, with all of the concerns and struggles that Gaia as a whole has been experiencing from both the userbase end and the Staff end, these posts really do sound rather legit which is what makes it worrisome regardless of their authenticity or not.
Also, the thread that the posts came from have since disappeared from public viewing. If the person were not in any way, shape, or form related to official Gaia and the posts were done simply for the LULZ or whatever, then why would there be any need to edit posts (referencing the question someone in the SA thread asked about the number of halos available which was answered but then edited out before the thread went poof) or make threads disappear? This just doesn't bode well.
Anyhow, thanks for listening!
sweatdrop , gonk , and some whee because of zOMG
