Living with our Feathered Friends: Support and Appreciation

[maddiekitsune15]

Ok, so I'm getting a senegal parrot in a few weeks. He isn't here yet because he's not out of the nest box and i'm not comfortable hand feeding him because of a previous experiance. The cage I have picked out is fairly large, i've seen people keep cokatoos in them before. It also has a play top on it where i intend to have the bird most of the time. I also have a large dog ( 95lbs) and 3 little sisters (7yrs,7yrs and 9yrs). My question is to clip or not to clip his wings?

[Moth Feathers]

haikou-kitsune

Ok, so I'm getting a senegal parrot in a few weeks. He isn't here yet because he's not out of the nest box and i'm not comfortable hand feeding him because of a previous experiance. The cage I have picked out is fairly large, i've seen people keep cokatoos in them before. It also has a play top on it where i intend to have the bird most of the time. I also have a large dog ( 95lbs) and 3 little sisters (7yrs,7yrs and 9yrs). My question is to clip or not to clip his wings?

No clip!
Clipping is detrimental to the health of the bird. For a lot of reasons, here's just a few-

1- Flight is the best form of exercise and is psychologically enriching.
Climbing and walking around on things compared to flight is like watching television all day versus running marathons. There is no comparison. Flight is a powerful, demanding thing- it's the reason why birds have such efficient respiratory and cardiovascular systems compared to us land-bound mammals. Flight strengthens the powerful 'flight muscles', the pectoralis major and minor. This muscle is one of the largest, if not THE largest, in the entire bird's body. When a bird never flies, these flight muscles atrophy and weaken. Birds that have been clipped for a long time, then allowed to fly, are actually pathetic, weak fliers until they build up their muscle again- this is the effect that the sedentary lifestyle of being flightless has on a bird.

You know how out-of-shape people get tired really easily? How they lack endurance? The same exact thing happens to a clipped bird. They lack the endurance their flighted counterparts will have because their cardiovascular system is never challenged, never exercised.
Considering how most of a bird is literally made of air (pneumatic bones connecting to the nine air sacs throughout the bird's body, connecting to the rigid lungs, forming the respiratory system), I would be concerned that the lack of exercise being clipped brings would cause problems later on.

2- Flight allows the bird greater independence. The relationship between you and your bird should be a symbiotic one, with you and your bird benefiting each other. It should NOT be some sort of captor-captive relationship.
When you clip a bird's wings, you take away their main form of locomotion and make them completely dependent on you for transportation. Sure, they can glide, but where is that going to get them? And they can walk too, but again- where is that going to get them? If a flighted bird is scared, or for any reason wants to fly away, it can. If I'm a dog and I'm trying to eat this flighted bird, I can't, it'll see me and it'll fly away A clipped bird must remain where they are. If I have a clipped bird sitting on my arm, and let's say I'm scaring this poor bird- rolling and moving my arm and making its perch unsteady, what can it do? It can't do anything- maybe try biting me, but that's no good. It could glide down, but what if the drop is too far or its clip is too severe?

Birds live in a 3D world. They can not only walk and climb but they can take advantage of the vertical plane and fly, so much more different than us.

3- Wing clipping is completely unnecessary.

Cats can eat poisonous plants. Dogs can chew on wires and electrocute themselves. Cats can step on hot stoves. Dogs can get into the antifreeze or the cleaning solutions. But do we ever cut their legs off? No! Of course not!
Your bird shouldn't have to sacrifice their gift of flight just to live in your house. Change your house to fit the bird, don't change the bird to fit your house.

With some diligence, you can /easily/ bird-proof your house. Keep the bird restricted to bird-safe areas of the house. Most 'toxins' are found in the kitchen and bathroom- the solution? Keep the bird out of the kitchen and bathrooms. Most supposed 'risks' come from falling in the toilet or stepping on a hot stove- the solution? Keep the bird out of the kitchen and bathrooms. Polly can get cut up on the ceiling fan? Don't use the ceiling fan. The bird can run into the window? Pull over the curtains or drapes until the bird knows it's a solid object (strange that people think running into windows is an issue, yet are not opposed to those clear acrylic cages). The bird can fly out the door or window? Keep the bird away from doors leading to outside, have screened windows or don't open them at all. Bird can eat toxic plants? Move the plants.
Of course, if you're particularly diligent, feel free to let your bird fly in the kitchen and bathroom and similar 'off limit' areas. Just be aware of the risks and always supervise.

And learn recall training. Very important, just in case anything were to happen (such as accidentally escaping outdoors). Grey has more information on that, and there's some internet resources available. But basically, when you call your bird to come, he should come. Some people also teach additional skills such as "stay there" or "fly off me", etc.

4- Birds fly.
They evolved for 150 million years to fly. I don't really see why someone would want to deprive an animal of what they went through millions of years to do. Fish swim, rabbits hop, dogs run, etc.

Especially considering your situation- I would feel much more comfortable having a bird living with a large dog and kids if they were flighted, as they are able to escape danger if anything was to happen. As well as the fact that you are going to get a young bird- even though he'll be weaned when you get him, he will still be a juvenile all and all. His body is developing, you don't want to stop this development by eliminating THE best form of exercise there is.

[maddiekitsune15]

Moth Feathers

haikou-kitsune

Ok, so I'm getting a senegal parrot in a few weeks. He isn't here yet because he's not out of the nest box and i'm not comfortable hand feeding him because of a previous experiance. The cage I have picked out is fairly large, i've seen people keep cokatoos in them before. It also has a play top on it where i intend to have the bird most of the time. I also have a large dog ( 95lbs) and 3 little sisters (7yrs,7yrs and 9yrs). My question is to clip or not to clip his wings?

No clip!
Clipping is detrimental to the health of the bird. For a lot of reasons, here's just a few-

1- Flight is the best form of exercise and is psychologically enriching.
Climbing and walking around on things compared to flight is like watching television all day versus running marathons. There is no comparison. Flight is a powerful, demanding thing- it's the reason why birds have such efficient respiratory and cardiovascular systems compared to us land-bound mammals. Flight strengthens the powerful 'flight muscles', the pectoralis major and minor. This muscle is one of the largest, if not THE largest, in the entire bird's body. When a bird never flies, these flight muscles atrophy and weaken. Birds that have been clipped for a long time, then allowed to fly, are actually pathetic, weak fliers until they build up their muscle again- this is the effect that the sedentary lifestyle of being flightless has on a bird.

You know how out-of-shape people get tired really easily? How they lack endurance? The same exact thing happens to a clipped bird. They lack the endurance their flighted counterparts will have because their cardiovascular system is never challenged, never exercised.
Considering how most of a bird is literally made of air (pneumatic bones connecting to the nine air sacs throughout the bird's body, connecting to the rigid lungs, forming the respiratory system), I would be concerned that the lack of exercise being clipped brings would cause problems later on.

2- Flight allows the bird greater independence. The relationship between you and your bird should be a symbiotic one, with you and your bird benefiting each other. It should NOT be some sort of captor-captive relationship.
When you clip a bird's wings, you take away their main form of locomotion and make them completely dependent on you for transportation. Sure, they can glide, but where is that going to get them? And they can walk too, but again- where is that going to get them? If a flighted bird is scared, or for any reason wants to fly away, it can. If I'm a dog and I'm trying to eat this flighted bird, I can't, it'll see me and it'll fly away A clipped bird must remain where they are. If I have a clipped bird sitting on my arm, and let's say I'm scaring this poor bird- rolling and moving my arm and making its perch unsteady, what can it do? It can't do anything- maybe try biting me, but that's no good. It could glide down, but what if the drop is too far or its clip is too severe?

Birds live in a 3D world. They can not only walk and climb but they can take advantage of the vertical plane and fly, so much more different than us.

3- Wing clipping is completely unnecessary.

Cats can eat poisonous plants. Dogs can chew on wires and electrocute themselves. Cats can step on hot stoves. Dogs can get into the antifreeze or the cleaning solutions. But do we ever cut their legs off? No! Of course not!
Your bird shouldn't have to sacrifice their gift of flight just to live in your house. Change your house to fit the bird, don't change the bird to fit your house.

With some diligence, you can /easily/ bird-proof your house. Keep the bird restricted to bird-safe areas of the house. Most 'toxins' are found in the kitchen and bathroom- the solution? Keep the bird out of the kitchen and bathrooms. Most supposed 'risks' come from falling in the toilet or stepping on a hot stove- the solution? Keep the bird out of the kitchen and bathrooms. Polly can get cut up on the ceiling fan? Don't use the ceiling fan. The bird can run into the window? Pull over the curtains or drapes until the bird knows it's a solid object (strange that people think running into windows is an issue, yet are not opposed to those clear acrylic cages). The bird can fly out the door or window? Keep the bird away from doors leading to outside, have screened windows or don't open them at all. Bird can eat toxic plants? Move the plants.
Of course, if you're particularly diligent, feel free to let your bird fly in the kitchen and bathroom and similar 'off limit' areas. Just be aware of the risks and always supervise.

And learn recall training. Very important, just in case anything were to happen (such as accidentally escaping outdoors). Grey has more information on that, and there's some internet resources available. But basically, when you call your bird to come, he should come. Some people also teach additional skills such as "stay there" or "fly off me", etc.

4- Birds fly.
They evolved for 150 million years to fly. I don't really see why someone would want to deprive an animal of what they went through millions of years to do. Fish swim, rabbits hop, dogs run, etc.

Especially considering your situation- I would feel much more comfortable having a bird living with a large dog and kids if they were flighted, as they are able to escape danger if anything was to happen. As well as the fact that you are going to get a young bird- even though he'll be weaned when you get him, he will still be a juvenile all and all. His body is developing, you don't want to stop this development by eliminating THE best form of exercise there is.

Thank you for actually giving me information, most people i've asked just state their opinion and thats it. I've had smaller birds before and I love birds and i'm working my way up to some larger ones

[Moth Feathers]

haikou-kitsune

Moth Feathers

haikou-kitsune

Ok, so I'm getting a senegal parrot in a few weeks. He isn't here yet because he's not out of the nest box and i'm not comfortable hand feeding him because of a previous experiance. The cage I have picked out is fairly large, i've seen people keep cokatoos in them before. It also has a play top on it where i intend to have the bird most of the time. I also have a large dog ( 95lbs) and 3 little sisters (7yrs,7yrs and 9yrs). My question is to clip or not to clip his wings?

No clip!
Clipping is detrimental to the health of the bird. For a lot of reasons, here's just a few-

1- Flight is the best form of exercise and is psychologically enriching.
Climbing and walking around on things compared to flight is like watching television all day versus running marathons. There is no comparison. Flight is a powerful, demanding thing- it's the reason why birds have such efficient respiratory and cardiovascular systems compared to us land-bound mammals. Flight strengthens the powerful 'flight muscles', the pectoralis major and minor. This muscle is one of the largest, if not THE largest, in the entire bird's body. When a bird never flies, these flight muscles atrophy and weaken. Birds that have been clipped for a long time, then allowed to fly, are actually pathetic, weak fliers until they build up their muscle again- this is the effect that the sedentary lifestyle of being flightless has on a bird.

You know how out-of-shape people get tired really easily? How they lack endurance? The same exact thing happens to a clipped bird. They lack the endurance their flighted counterparts will have because their cardiovascular system is never challenged, never exercised.
Considering how most of a bird is literally made of air (pneumatic bones connecting to the nine air sacs throughout the bird's body, connecting to the rigid lungs, forming the respiratory system), I would be concerned that the lack of exercise being clipped brings would cause problems later on.

2- Flight allows the bird greater independence. The relationship between you and your bird should be a symbiotic one, with you and your bird benefiting each other. It should NOT be some sort of captor-captive relationship.
When you clip a bird's wings, you take away their main form of locomotion and make them completely dependent on you for transportation. Sure, they can glide, but where is that going to get them? And they can walk too, but again- where is that going to get them? If a flighted bird is scared, or for any reason wants to fly away, it can. If I'm a dog and I'm trying to eat this flighted bird, I can't, it'll see me and it'll fly away A clipped bird must remain where they are. If I have a clipped bird sitting on my arm, and let's say I'm scaring this poor bird- rolling and moving my arm and making its perch unsteady, what can it do? It can't do anything- maybe try biting me, but that's no good. It could glide down, but what if the drop is too far or its clip is too severe?

Birds live in a 3D world. They can not only walk and climb but they can take advantage of the vertical plane and fly, so much more different than us.

3- Wing clipping is completely unnecessary.

Cats can eat poisonous plants. Dogs can chew on wires and electrocute themselves. Cats can step on hot stoves. Dogs can get into the antifreeze or the cleaning solutions. But do we ever cut their legs off? No! Of course not!
Your bird shouldn't have to sacrifice their gift of flight just to live in your house. Change your house to fit the bird, don't change the bird to fit your house.

With some diligence, you can /easily/ bird-proof your house. Keep the bird restricted to bird-safe areas of the house. Most 'toxins' are found in the kitchen and bathroom- the solution? Keep the bird out of the kitchen and bathrooms. Most supposed 'risks' come from falling in the toilet or stepping on a hot stove- the solution? Keep the bird out of the kitchen and bathrooms. Polly can get cut up on the ceiling fan? Don't use the ceiling fan. The bird can run into the window? Pull over the curtains or drapes until the bird knows it's a solid object (strange that people think running into windows is an issue, yet are not opposed to those clear acrylic cages). The bird can fly out the door or window? Keep the bird away from doors leading to outside, have screened windows or don't open them at all. Bird can eat toxic plants? Move the plants.
Of course, if you're particularly diligent, feel free to let your bird fly in the kitchen and bathroom and similar 'off limit' areas. Just be aware of the risks and always supervise.

And learn recall training. Very important, just in case anything were to happen (such as accidentally escaping outdoors). Grey has more information on that, and there's some internet resources available. But basically, when you call your bird to come, he should come. Some people also teach additional skills such as "stay there" or "fly off me", etc.

4- Birds fly.
They evolved for 150 million years to fly. I don't really see why someone would want to deprive an animal of what they went through millions of years to do. Fish swim, rabbits hop, dogs run, etc.

Especially considering your situation- I would feel much more comfortable having a bird living with a large dog and kids if they were flighted, as they are able to escape danger if anything was to happen. As well as the fact that you are going to get a young bird- even though he'll be weaned when you get him, he will still be a juvenile all and all. His body is developing, you don't want to stop this development by eliminating THE best form of exercise there is.

Thank you for actually giving me information, most people i've asked just state their opinion and thats it. I've had smaller birds before and I love birds and i'm working my way up to some larger ones

No problem. I always want to inform people on wing-clipping; it's done way too routinely and all too unnecessarily. I find it sad how our birds always get the short of the stick on things- people do so many things to their birds that they wouldn't dream of to their mammalian pets.

What smaller birds have you had before? Since you've been working your way up, do you notice a lot of difference between the behavior and abilities of smaller birds vs larger?
Also, why did you choose to get a Senegal? They seem such like good natured birds, earthy colors.

[maddiekitsune15]

Moth Feathers

haikou-kitsune

Moth Feathers

haikou-kitsune

Ok, so I'm getting a senegal parrot in a few weeks. He isn't here yet because he's not out of the nest box and i'm not comfortable hand feeding him because of a previous experiance. The cage I have picked out is fairly large, i've seen people keep cokatoos in them before. It also has a play top on it where i intend to have the bird most of the time. I also have a large dog ( 95lbs) and 3 little sisters (7yrs,7yrs and 9yrs). My question is to clip or not to clip his wings?

No clip!
Clipping is detrimental to the health of the bird. For a lot of reasons, here's just a few-

1- Flight is the best form of exercise and is psychologically enriching.
Climbing and walking around on things compared to flight is like watching television all day versus running marathons. There is no comparison. Flight is a powerful, demanding thing- it's the reason why birds have such efficient respiratory and cardiovascular systems compared to us land-bound mammals. Flight strengthens the powerful 'flight muscles', the pectoralis major and minor. This muscle is one of the largest, if not THE largest, in the entire bird's body. When a bird never flies, these flight muscles atrophy and weaken. Birds that have been clipped for a long time, then allowed to fly, are actually pathetic, weak fliers until they build up their muscle again- this is the effect that the sedentary lifestyle of being flightless has on a bird.

You know how out-of-shape people get tired really easily? How they lack endurance? The same exact thing happens to a clipped bird. They lack the endurance their flighted counterparts will have because their cardiovascular system is never challenged, never exercised.
Considering how most of a bird is literally made of air (pneumatic bones connecting to the nine air sacs throughout the bird's body, connecting to the rigid lungs, forming the respiratory system), I would be concerned that the lack of exercise being clipped brings would cause problems later on.

2- Flight allows the bird greater independence. The relationship between you and your bird should be a symbiotic one, with you and your bird benefiting each other. It should NOT be some sort of captor-captive relationship.
When you clip a bird's wings, you take away their main form of locomotion and make them completely dependent on you for transportation. Sure, they can glide, but where is that going to get them? And they can walk too, but again- where is that going to get them? If a flighted bird is scared, or for any reason wants to fly away, it can. If I'm a dog and I'm trying to eat this flighted bird, I can't, it'll see me and it'll fly away A clipped bird must remain where they are. If I have a clipped bird sitting on my arm, and let's say I'm scaring this poor bird- rolling and moving my arm and making its perch unsteady, what can it do? It can't do anything- maybe try biting me, but that's no good. It could glide down, but what if the drop is too far or its clip is too severe?

Birds live in a 3D world. They can not only walk and climb but they can take advantage of the vertical plane and fly, so much more different than us.

3- Wing clipping is completely unnecessary.

Cats can eat poisonous plants. Dogs can chew on wires and electrocute themselves. Cats can step on hot stoves. Dogs can get into the antifreeze or the cleaning solutions. But do we ever cut their legs off? No! Of course not!
Your bird shouldn't have to sacrifice their gift of flight just to live in your house. Change your house to fit the bird, don't change the bird to fit your house.

With some diligence, you can /easily/ bird-proof your house. Keep the bird restricted to bird-safe areas of the house. Most 'toxins' are found in the kitchen and bathroom- the solution? Keep the bird out of the kitchen and bathrooms. Most supposed 'risks' come from falling in the toilet or stepping on a hot stove- the solution? Keep the bird out of the kitchen and bathrooms. Polly can get cut up on the ceiling fan? Don't use the ceiling fan. The bird can run into the window? Pull over the curtains or drapes until the bird knows it's a solid object (strange that people think running into windows is an issue, yet are not opposed to those clear acrylic cages). The bird can fly out the door or window? Keep the bird away from doors leading to outside, have screened windows or don't open them at all. Bird can eat toxic plants? Move the plants.
Of course, if you're particularly diligent, feel free to let your bird fly in the kitchen and bathroom and similar 'off limit' areas. Just be aware of the risks and always supervise.

And learn recall training. Very important, just in case anything were to happen (such as accidentally escaping outdoors). Grey has more information on that, and there's some internet resources available. But basically, when you call your bird to come, he should come. Some people also teach additional skills such as "stay there" or "fly off me", etc.

4- Birds fly.
They evolved for 150 million years to fly. I don't really see why someone would want to deprive an animal of what they went through millions of years to do. Fish swim, rabbits hop, dogs run, etc.

Especially considering your situation- I would feel much more comfortable having a bird living with a large dog and kids if they were flighted, as they are able to escape danger if anything was to happen. As well as the fact that you are going to get a young bird- even though he'll be weaned when you get him, he will still be a juvenile all and all. His body is developing, you don't want to stop this development by eliminating THE best form of exercise there is.

Thank you for actually giving me information, most people i've asked just state their opinion and thats it. I've had smaller birds before and I love birds and i'm working my way up to some larger ones

No problem. I always want to inform people on wing-clipping; it's done way too routinely and all too unnecessarily. I find it sad how our birds always get the short of the stick on things- people do so many things to their birds that they wouldn't dream of to their mammalian pets.

What smaller birds have you had before? Since you've been working your way up, do you notice a lot of difference between the behavior and abilities of smaller birds vs larger?
Also, why did you choose to get a Senegal? They seem such like good natured birds, earthy colors.

I've had some canaries, budgies, a cockatiel,and a pair of sun conures. Definatly noticed personality changes, the bigger birds seem more content just having me around or hanging out on a perch outside their cage where as the little ones seem to get bored and fly around everwhere making the dog go nuts lol I chose a senegal because they are quiet, calm, nice tempered birds. i was stuck between a meyers and a senegal but honestly i like the sengals colors more and i know you shouldnt pick an animal because of color but they seemed close in temperment and are about the same size.

[Shearaha]

Don't know why I haven't posted in this thread yet, I've sent a few people this way already though.

I'm Shearaha or Shea. I am owned by a Ring Neck Dove, Louie, and a Cockatiel, Peaches. I'm also owned by 3 cats and live with another 2 cats and 2 dogs.
Louie was intentionally bred and hand raised for my husband and I by a friend of Hubby's family. Louie's father, according to my husband, is the coolest bird ever. A dove is not my first choice, but when someone puts that much effort into a gift it's rude to say no. That said, he's been an interesting departure from the 'tiels and 'keets I've had before him. For one he's fixated on one of our cats and will chase her all over the room performing a courtship song and dance.
Peaches was rescued before I met my husband, before I moved out of my parents house even. She was kept in a closet with a bare bulb and fed finch seed. They had also kept her wings clipped from the time she fleged. She has early stage renal disease, which I'm maintaing with diet (somehow) and a few behaviorial problems that we've worked on over the years. She used to have night terrors and feather pluck, has and OCD with mirriors (still working on that one, she's gotten better though) and hates males (has begun to accept my husband after 4 years). I'm always looking for ideas on how to help Peach with her issues, though I love her with them as well.

[grey eyed girly]

Shearaha

Don't know why I haven't posted in this thread yet, I've sent a few people this way already though.

I'm Shearaha or Shea. I am owned by a Ring Neck Dove, Louie, and a Cockatiel, Peaches. I'm also owned by 3 cats and live with another 2 cats and 2 dogs.
Louie was intentionally bred and hand raised for my husband and I by a friend of Hubby's family. Louie's father, according to my husband, is the coolest bird ever. A dove is not my first choice, but when someone puts that much effort into a gift it's rude to say no. That said, he's been an interesting departure from the 'tiels and 'keets I've had before him. For one he's fixated on one of our cats and will chase her all over the room performing a courtship song and dance.
Peaches was rescued before I met my husband, before I moved out of my parents house even. She was kept in a closet with a bare bulb and fed finch seed. They had also kept her wings clipped from the time she fleged. She has early stage renal disease, which I'm maintaing with diet (somehow) and a few behaviorial problems that we've worked on over the years. She used to have night terrors and feather pluck, has and OCD with mirriors (still working on that one, she's gotten better though) and hates males (has begun to accept my husband after 4 years). I'm always looking for ideas on how to help Peach with her issues, though I love her with them as well.

Hey there, welcome to the thread! Wow, a Ring Neck Dove. I'm not sure what they are like as pets though I have seen them around. People tell me they are a lot like puppies, but I'm not sure if I believe them.

Peaches is more what I know though. She is very lucky that you found her, but I'm sure you've been told that. It also seems like she's come a long way with is just wonderful for you both. The best advice I can give is to be sure an introduce her to one knew thing a day, and approximately one new person a week (I know that's almost impossible). This will help with her socialization and begin getting her more confident that she can take on the world, which is exactly how a bird should feel. Is she clipped or fully flighted now? It is possible to teach a bird how to fly, since you mentioned she's been clipped since fledging, and in her case, if its at all possible, the more things that involve flight that you can manage, the better. Again, its all about confidence.

The next thing I suggest is trick training. Most of the birds I've met enjoy figuring out a challenge and its fun binding with the two of you and with your husband if he'll take part in it. You can "train" hating genders out of them. With the help of socialization and introducing one knew thing a day, and trick training, once they get into a tizzy over a male simply give them a command for a trick they know. It stops the emotions in their tracks and gives them something healthier to focus on. Keep doing that, soon they won't associate men with badness, because you will have broken the emotional cycle it triggers. It doesn't work for every bird, but I feel its worth a shot.

Birds are both very fragile and very hardy, as I'm sure you know. They can be so easily damaged and easily hurt by people, but when being given the right care, when families like yours take them in, they can make amazing recoveries.

Again welcome, we're glad you're here

[grey eyed girly]

Moth Feathers

haikou-kitsune

Moth Feathers

haikou-kitsune

Ok, so I'm getting a senegal parrot in a few weeks. He isn't here yet because he's not out of the nest box and i'm not comfortable hand feeding him because of a previous experiance. The cage I have picked out is fairly large, i've seen people keep cokatoos in them before. It also has a play top on it where i intend to have the bird most of the time. I also have a large dog ( 95lbs) and 3 little sisters (7yrs,7yrs and 9yrs). My question is to clip or not to clip his wings?

No clip!
Clipping is detrimental to the health of the bird. For a lot of reasons, here's just a few-

1- Flight is the best form of exercise and is psychologically enriching.
Climbing and walking around on things compared to flight is like watching television all day versus running marathons. There is no comparison. Flight is a powerful, demanding thing- it's the reason why birds have such efficient respiratory and cardiovascular systems compared to us land-bound mammals. Flight strengthens the powerful 'flight muscles', the pectoralis major and minor. This muscle is one of the largest, if not THE largest, in the entire bird's body. When a bird never flies, these flight muscles atrophy and weaken. Birds that have been clipped for a long time, then allowed to fly, are actually pathetic, weak fliers until they build up their muscle again- this is the effect that the sedentary lifestyle of being flightless has on a bird.

You know how out-of-shape people get tired really easily? How they lack endurance? The same exact thing happens to a clipped bird. They lack the endurance their flighted counterparts will have because their cardiovascular system is never challenged, never exercised.
Considering how most of a bird is literally made of air (pneumatic bones connecting to the nine air sacs throughout the bird's body, connecting to the rigid lungs, forming the respiratory system), I would be concerned that the lack of exercise being clipped brings would cause problems later on.

2- Flight allows the bird greater independence. The relationship between you and your bird should be a symbiotic one, with you and your bird benefiting each other. It should NOT be some sort of captor-captive relationship.
When you clip a bird's wings, you take away their main form of locomotion and make them completely dependent on you for transportation. Sure, they can glide, but where is that going to get them? And they can walk too, but again- where is that going to get them? If a flighted bird is scared, or for any reason wants to fly away, it can. If I'm a dog and I'm trying to eat this flighted bird, I can't, it'll see me and it'll fly away A clipped bird must remain where they are. If I have a clipped bird sitting on my arm, and let's say I'm scaring this poor bird- rolling and moving my arm and making its perch unsteady, what can it do? It can't do anything- maybe try biting me, but that's no good. It could glide down, but what if the drop is too far or its clip is too severe?

Birds live in a 3D world. They can not only walk and climb but they can take advantage of the vertical plane and fly, so much more different than us.

3- Wing clipping is completely unnecessary.

Cats can eat poisonous plants. Dogs can chew on wires and electrocute themselves. Cats can step on hot stoves. Dogs can get into the antifreeze or the cleaning solutions. But do we ever cut their legs off? No! Of course not!
Your bird shouldn't have to sacrifice their gift of flight just to live in your house. Change your house to fit the bird, don't change the bird to fit your house.

With some diligence, you can /easily/ bird-proof your house. Keep the bird restricted to bird-safe areas of the house. Most 'toxins' are found in the kitchen and bathroom- the solution? Keep the bird out of the kitchen and bathrooms. Most supposed 'risks' come from falling in the toilet or stepping on a hot stove- the solution? Keep the bird out of the kitchen and bathrooms. Polly can get cut up on the ceiling fan? Don't use the ceiling fan. The bird can run into the window? Pull over the curtains or drapes until the bird knows it's a solid object (strange that people think running into windows is an issue, yet are not opposed to those clear acrylic cages). The bird can fly out the door or window? Keep the bird away from doors leading to outside, have screened windows or don't open them at all. Bird can eat toxic plants? Move the plants.
Of course, if you're particularly diligent, feel free to let your bird fly in the kitchen and bathroom and similar 'off limit' areas. Just be aware of the risks and always supervise.

And learn recall training. Very important, just in case anything were to happen (such as accidentally escaping outdoors). Grey has more information on that, and there's some internet resources available. But basically, when you call your bird to come, he should come. Some people also teach additional skills such as "stay there" or "fly off me", etc.

4- Birds fly.
They evolved for 150 million years to fly. I don't really see why someone would want to deprive an animal of what they went through millions of years to do. Fish swim, rabbits hop, dogs run, etc.

Especially considering your situation- I would feel much more comfortable having a bird living with a large dog and kids if they were flighted, as they are able to escape danger if anything was to happen. As well as the fact that you are going to get a young bird- even though he'll be weaned when you get him, he will still be a juvenile all and all. His body is developing, you don't want to stop this development by eliminating THE best form of exercise there is.

Thank you for actually giving me information, most people i've asked just state their opinion and thats it. I've had smaller birds before and I love birds and i'm working my way up to some larger ones

No problem. I always want to inform people on wing-clipping; it's done way too routinely and all too unnecessarily. I find it sad how our birds always get the short of the stick on things- people do so many things to their birds that they wouldn't dream of to their mammalian pets.

What smaller birds have you had before? Since you've been working your way up, do you notice a lot of difference between the behavior and abilities of smaller birds vs larger?
Also, why did you choose to get a Senegal? They seem such like good natured birds, earthy colors.

I second this!

I'll gladly help you through any step of recall or trick training. Senegals are wonderful little girls, very loyal but socialization is key in these birds, introduce them to things and people as often as you can. One new thing a day, pen caps, bottle caps, pencils, anything as long as they haven't seen it before. Also, Segelas have a reputation as "bitey" birds, they use their beaks to explore quite a lot, section on biting in this thread, if your bird bites, know how to handle it and please don't assume that the bird hates you, they are very smart and very sweet birds, mine is sitting with me right now and he's always and absolute doll. Please send us pictures when you get him

[maddiekitsune15]

grey eyed gypsy

Moth Feathers

haikou-kitsune

Moth Feathers

haikou-kitsune

Ok, so I'm getting a senegal parrot in a few weeks. He isn't here yet because he's not out of the nest box and i'm not comfortable hand feeding him because of a previous experiance. The cage I have picked out is fairly large, i've seen people keep cokatoos in them before. It also has a play top on it where i intend to have the bird most of the time. I also have a large dog ( 95lbs) and 3 little sisters (7yrs,7yrs and 9yrs). My question is to clip or not to clip his wings?

No clip!
Clipping is detrimental to the health of the bird. For a lot of reasons, here's just a few-

1- Flight is the best form of exercise and is psychologically enriching.
Climbing and walking around on things compared to flight is like watching television all day versus running marathons. There is no comparison. Flight is a powerful, demanding thing- it's the reason why birds have such efficient respiratory and cardiovascular systems compared to us land-bound mammals. Flight strengthens the powerful 'flight muscles', the pectoralis major and minor. This muscle is one of the largest, if not THE largest, in the entire bird's body. When a bird never flies, these flight muscles atrophy and weaken. Birds that have been clipped for a long time, then allowed to fly, are actually pathetic, weak fliers until they build up their muscle again- this is the effect that the sedentary lifestyle of being flightless has on a bird.

You know how out-of-shape people get tired really easily? How they lack endurance? The same exact thing happens to a clipped bird. They lack the endurance their flighted counterparts will have because their cardiovascular system is never challenged, never exercised.
Considering how most of a bird is literally made of air (pneumatic bones connecting to the nine air sacs throughout the bird's body, connecting to the rigid lungs, forming the respiratory system), I would be concerned that the lack of exercise being clipped brings would cause problems later on.

2- Flight allows the bird greater independence. The relationship between you and your bird should be a symbiotic one, with you and your bird benefiting each other. It should NOT be some sort of captor-captive relationship.
When you clip a bird's wings, you take away their main form of locomotion and make them completely dependent on you for transportation. Sure, they can glide, but where is that going to get them? And they can walk too, but again- where is that going to get them? If a flighted bird is scared, or for any reason wants to fly away, it can. If I'm a dog and I'm trying to eat this flighted bird, I can't, it'll see me and it'll fly away A clipped bird must remain where they are. If I have a clipped bird sitting on my arm, and let's say I'm scaring this poor bird- rolling and moving my arm and making its perch unsteady, what can it do? It can't do anything- maybe try biting me, but that's no good. It could glide down, but what if the drop is too far or its clip is too severe?

Birds live in a 3D world. They can not only walk and climb but they can take advantage of the vertical plane and fly, so much more different than us.

3- Wing clipping is completely unnecessary.

Cats can eat poisonous plants. Dogs can chew on wires and electrocute themselves. Cats can step on hot stoves. Dogs can get into the antifreeze or the cleaning solutions. But do we ever cut their legs off? No! Of course not!
Your bird shouldn't have to sacrifice their gift of flight just to live in your house. Change your house to fit the bird, don't change the bird to fit your house.

With some diligence, you can /easily/ bird-proof your house. Keep the bird restricted to bird-safe areas of the house. Most 'toxins' are found in the kitchen and bathroom- the solution? Keep the bird out of the kitchen and bathrooms. Most supposed 'risks' come from falling in the toilet or stepping on a hot stove- the solution? Keep the bird out of the kitchen and bathrooms. Polly can get cut up on the ceiling fan? Don't use the ceiling fan. The bird can run into the window? Pull over the curtains or drapes until the bird knows it's a solid object (strange that people think running into windows is an issue, yet are not opposed to those clear acrylic cages). The bird can fly out the door or window? Keep the bird away from doors leading to outside, have screened windows or don't open them at all. Bird can eat toxic plants? Move the plants.
Of course, if you're particularly diligent, feel free to let your bird fly in the kitchen and bathroom and similar 'off limit' areas. Just be aware of the risks and always supervise.

And learn recall training. Very important, just in case anything were to happen (such as accidentally escaping outdoors). Grey has more information on that, and there's some internet resources available. But basically, when you call your bird to come, he should come. Some people also teach additional skills such as "stay there" or "fly off me", etc.

4- Birds fly.
They evolved for 150 million years to fly. I don't really see why someone would want to deprive an animal of what they went through millions of years to do. Fish swim, rabbits hop, dogs run, etc.

Especially considering your situation- I would feel much more comfortable having a bird living with a large dog and kids if they were flighted, as they are able to escape danger if anything was to happen. As well as the fact that you are going to get a young bird- even though he'll be weaned when you get him, he will still be a juvenile all and all. His body is developing, you don't want to stop this development by eliminating THE best form of exercise there is.

Thank you for actually giving me information, most people i've asked just state their opinion and thats it. I've had smaller birds before and I love birds and i'm working my way up to some larger ones

No problem. I always want to inform people on wing-clipping; it's done way too routinely and all too unnecessarily. I find it sad how our birds always get the short of the stick on things- people do so many things to their birds that they wouldn't dream of to their mammalian pets.

What smaller birds have you had before? Since you've been working your way up, do you notice a lot of difference between the behavior and abilities of smaller birds vs larger?
Also, why did you choose to get a Senegal? They seem such like good natured birds, earthy colors.

I second this!

I'll gladly help you through any step of recall or trick training. Senegals are wonderful little girls, very loyal but socialization is key in these birds, introduce them to things and people as often as you can. One new thing a day, pen caps, bottle caps, pencils, anything as long as they haven't seen it before. Also, Segelas have a reputation as "bitey" birds, they use their beaks to explore quite a lot, section on biting in this thread, if your bird bites, know how to handle it and please don't assume that the bird hates you, they are very smart and very sweet birds, mine is sitting with me right now and he's always and absolute doll. Please send us pictures when you get him

I've got some pictures of him and his brother/sister in the nest box right now and I'll try to get them up her soon! His names going to be Gryphon. Hes not even here yet and i'm spoiling him with a HUGE cage! lol

[maddiekitsune15]

Here are pics of Gryphon! He's coming home in a few weeks!



Sorry about the quality, it's not easy to get pics of them lol If you can see the difference, Gryphon is the one with the darker head.

[Moth Feathers]

haikou-kitsune

Here are pics of Gryphon! He's coming home in a few weeks!
Sorry about the quality, it's not easy to get pics of them lol If you can see the difference, Gryphon is the one with the darker head.

Aww, he's so cute! I think he will fit his name well when he grows up.
Fledglings are adorable. So innocent. And fluffy.

[maddiekitsune15]

Moth Feathers

haikou-kitsune

Here are pics of Gryphon! He's coming home in a few weeks!
Sorry about the quality, it's not easy to get pics of them lol If you can see the difference, Gryphon is the one with the darker head.

Aww, he's so cute! I think he will fit his name well when he grows up.
Fledglings are adorable. So innocent. And fluffy.

lol definatly! thanks for tipping my post in the other thread by the way. I got super pissed at that chick and had to restrain myself from using some other choice words lol

[grey eyed girly]

haikou-kitsune

Sorry about the quality, it's not easy to get pics of them lol If you can see the difference, Gryphon is the one with the darker head.

Awww baby senegal! Sorry its soo cute! You are lucky indeed

[maddiekitsune15]

grey eyed gypsy

haikou-kitsune

Sorry about the quality, it's not easy to get pics of them lol If you can see the difference, Gryphon is the one with the darker head.

Awww baby senegal! Sorry its soo cute! You are lucky indeed

lol Thankyou! I can't wait for him to be ready to come home-I have this huge cage ready and more than once i've walked over too it expecting to talk to him lolXD

[Moth Feathers]

haikou-kitsune

Moth Feathers

haikou-kitsune

Here are pics of Gryphon! He's coming home in a few weeks!
Sorry about the quality, it's not easy to get pics of them lol If you can see the difference, Gryphon is the one with the darker head.

Aww, he's so cute! I think he will fit his name well when he grows up.
Fledglings are adorable. So innocent. And fluffy.

lol definatly! thanks for tipping my post in the other thread by the way. I got super pissed at that chick and had to restrain myself from using some other choice words lol

Who, the Aurora whichever person?
Yeah, I found it rather offensive that she had such a narrow minded view on what a 'pet' could be.
But oh well.