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Please put any questions / issues about the tutorial, trailer, or game guide here.

Kawaii Bloodsucker

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After the Tutorial ended the Let's begin button didn't work properly so I had to use the skip button.

Ruthless Consumer

Ah i reported last time that every unit captures regions, i'm assuming since that wasn't fixed this time that that is a permanent change? The game guide should be updated to reflect that.

Benevolent Codger


Alright, I'm going back through the tutorial after having played the game a bit; let's see how it goes. Keep in mind, I'll be nitpicking whatever I see, and you're free to either take it or leave it. wink

--------

Your 'highlight' text is still too hard to discern from the regular text. I like that you named the tutorial character (and I hope that means she'll be around more), and that was a good use - the other bits I'd highlight are "three powerful factions" and "Cataclysms", but with over half of the second paragraph highlighted, it doesn't actually serve its purpose. sweatdrop

Also, describing the Flameborn and Hellspawn as "peaceful races" seems really strange - they're not that at all, are they? I think what it's trying to say is three races who were not previously warring each other, but 'peaceful' doesn't communicate that well.

----

I'd like to see "Commander" highlighted, personally - giving the player an identity is important, and I like that element of the tutorial quite a bit. There's nothing else in this paragraph that really deserves a highlight, anyway.

----

Playing the game, Victory Portal mechanics surprised me - primarily, you're trying to find 6 of the hidden Victory Portals, whereas I had assumed that there were simply 6 in every map. I thought this meant that players needed to capture their opponent's Home Region (which obviously contains one of the Portals), and accidentally won a game by discovering another while I was setting up to do that. Similarly, I lost a game in which my enemy simply contained me (which apparently wasn't too hard) while he explored for one last Portal. Personally I don't like this much to begin with - it avoids the climactic Home Region 'alpha strike' to end the game, which is potentially the single-most exciting moment - but if that's how the game plays, it should really be made clearer.

Also, the text says that VPs 'stabilise' the environment - does this actually happen? I can say I honestly didn't notice, because Cataclysms were pretty random and hard to follow, but if not it may be an interesting mechanic; specifically, that your Captured Regions adjacent to a VP you control are immune to Cataclysms. That would re-inforce the notion that your goal is to stabilise the area, and would allow a little more territory control, without eliminating the randomness in more contested areas.

----

It hadn't occurred to me from the tutorial that players could mutually attune VPs - I thought you needed to control a Portal at a given time, to get the points for it. Something as simple as adjusting the VP values in the tutorial to show 5 v. 3 (for instance) would serve to clarify something; either that there are more than 6 VPs, or that players can control them mutually. While both are true, this would certainly be worthwhile since it's almost impossible to misunderstand.

----

I kinda wish that things like exploring and Scouts had been covered at this point, because that's the only way you ever see an unattuned VP - you probably ought to dim the area to indicate as much, at least.

----

This bit makes Cataclysms seem pretty simple - once per round, one Region will disappear and reappear elsewhere at random. In the actual gameplay, however, Cataclysms seem to 'chain' by appearing on top of existing regions, which makes things considerably more complicated - when 3 or 4 Regions all move at once, it's really hard to follow the changes. I suppose this is 'fair' since it affects both players equally, but while the shifting battlefield is both interesting and fun, being confused by it all really isn't. It doesn't help that having several Cataclysm animations running at once kinda kills my framerate. razz

----

Here's a point that I brought up previously, but I think it really bears repeating because even after having played the game I don't fully understand Mana Mechanics: the way resources are presented is pretty complicated. Most specifically, I'd prefer the game (especially the tutorial) to present Mana Wells as a subset of Captured Regions, rather than two distinct things - explain Captured Regions (and the Mana they produce) first, then explain that some regions will contain Mana Wells and how to take advantage of those. Since you only get advantage from Mana Wells inside Captured Regions (I think?), one of those two is obviously more fundamental.

----

Having played a bit (and been caught offguard by the Flameborn's "Attuner Scout" ), I think that Attuner (and probably Scout, as well) should just be a keyword, rather than specifying a whole Unit type. Since Heralds can also attune (and aren't Attuners) and Attuner isn't really an exclusive... Well, anything... I don't see the need to name them explicitly. Simply explain that some Units can generate Mana by tapping those Wells, and that can be covered by keywords on its own. Interestingly, this also grants the ability to vary the ability to 'tap' Mana - current Attuners would have 'Mana-miner 10' (with a better name, though razz ), but it would be possible to make lesser 'attuners' (I think the Flameborn has a Regular that does something similar), as well as 'super-attuners' that generate more Mana from the same resources.

Oh, and can two Attuners both tap one Mana Well at the same time? The tutorial doesn't specify, and I wasn't able to confirm one way or another through gameplay - when I tried, I went from 14 Mana to 27 and back to 14, without significantly changing my setup. I don't believe they're supposed to be able to though, which re-inforces the notion that a Well is just a type of Captured Region that generates more Mana if you keep Attuners there.

Also, this bears repeating: mind your vocabulary. "Attune" has two different meanings in the game, and their mechanics are distinct enough that this is genuinely confusing. I still don't know for certain whether I need to 'attune' Wells just once (like VPs) or whether I need to keep an Attuner there to tap them continually. It doesn't help that the Home Region claims to have a Mana Well that doesn't seem to require an Attuner present to tap, and that sometimes I seem to generate Mana with Scouts or Regulars (or no-one at all) instead. Please, please pick a new term for one of the two, so I can actually link the term and definition properly. whee

----

This part seems altogether inaccurate - you get 2 Mana automatically for every Captured Region you happen to have, don't you? As far as I can tell, Attuners have nothing to do with capturing regions or which producing Mana from them, so I don't know why this is here. I could just be really confused, though, since I'll admit I couldn't figure out (even by actively calculating) why I was generating the Mana I did most of the time. redface

----

I still don't like referring to your army as a 'deck of cards' - as far as I can tell, they're not actually cards, they're real people. If the fact that they're cards is relevant in a way that hasn't been explained yet, that's fine - I just hope it's good. Since these aren't physical cards, there's no sense in calling them that without a good reason - call it a 'spellbook', treat them as summon spells, but calling them 'cards' when there's no obvious reason for them to be called that just seems a little... Well, lame. redface

Also, your deck is composed of 30 Units-and-Spells, not 30 Units - it would make more sense to consider Units a subset of Spells, since the mechanics are mostly similar (requires Mana, etc.). The only major difference is that Units can't be cast in combat, which seems like it would be pretty easy to grasp after about one fight. razz

----

I hadn't realised that detecting Cataclysms was a Herald-exclusive ability - but again, Cataclysms were hard enough to follow that I pretty much gave up on that. Perhaps the game should draw attention to your Herald actually detecting impending Cataclysms when it happens (at the start of the turn, for instance) so it's obvious where the effect is coming from, and how it works. It would also help with tracking the Cataclysms themselves, and would serve as a regular reminder that your Herald is awesome. wink

----

As said before, I think that current "Attuners" should just be Units with an attuning keyword - same goes for Scouts, I think. I'd rather see this section going in depth about the 'generic' keywords that every faction has access to (Cataclysm-detection, Attuning, Scouting, Defender?) and not really bother distinguishing Unit types explicitly. You might keep them as a guide (something like "Unit -- Scout Attuner" ) just to hint at players how to use them, but I honestly think the distinctions don't need to be made as prevalent as they are.

----

Why do Spells show up in the middle of the Units section? Whose idea wa this? whee

Worth noting, the only spell I saw in the Flameborn deck could be used both in- and out-of-battle - the text presents this as mutually exclusive. It should probably be along the lines of "Casting spells on the map costs Mana, while casting them in battle requires Action Points" - this also eases players into 'Action Points', since they already know what Mana does and this just presents it as an alternative, situational cost, rather than a whole new resource.

----

I've played the game, and I don't know what "better" means - do they find them from farther away, or have a higher chance of locating them randomly, or what? I get that they're better at it and my experience reflects that, but without knowing the mechanics for doing it normally, I don't know what it means to do it "better".

Worth noting, this would be really easy if this slide were for the Scout keyword - it would be obvious that it simply explains the bonus. wink

----

Another benefit of the keywording method - you needn't designate a whole slide for characters with no interesting properties. Units in general would be explained first, then how the keywords affect their function would all build on that. The current way makes Regulars seem really boring, but once you get in-game you find they often have keywords of their own to make them more exciting.

At this point, I'm concluding pretty strongly that the class distinction isn't helping anyone. sweatdrop

----

This version does a way better job of communicating what a Home Region is - really, that's one prior confusion that simply disappeared this time around. Thanks for that.

In fact, I can't come up with any nitpicks for this section at all. Not bad. razz

----

The direct walkthrough parts were always pretty solid, and that hasn't changed. The one thing I'll mention is that the 'use it or lose it' bit is pretty important, and might be worth mentioning back when Mana was explained initially - here it seems like an afterthought, when it's not. That said, it's something that's easy enough to figure out in-game, so it's not a huge issue.

----

I mentioned that "You have now moved your first Unit!" is pretty weird when he hasn't moved yet, and that's still true; but having played the game, I see why that is. They should clarify that you're not actually moving Units, but assigning movements to Units - and once you've completed it, it should still probably go ahead and move your guy.

----

This was confusing last time, but clears up quickly once you play - I'm not too worried about it anymore. That said, its interaction with Flight is still a little confusing, so that could do with some clearing-up - I don't think Flight is universal (though Angels of Avalon would make it so; I'm waiting for that, as well as the eastern glow wink ), so perhaps the various factions need a mini-tutorial for their own keywords, mechanics, and strategies? That said, this slide is probably fine as it is.

---

I complained about the 'Go Fight' button once before - I want to click it so bad. It should really be dimmed-out at first, so that player know to look for the tutorial buttons instead.

----

One thing I'm curious about is how it determines which fights play out automatically and which don't - it seemed a little strange to me. I initially assumed you'd be able to pick one fight to play through, while the others auto-played, but when I was playing that didn't appear to be the case - indeed, I often felt that it was depriving me of actively playing the battles I could influence, while having me play out battles that were already foregone conclusions. Is there a reason for that? Regardless, mentioning whether the battle is selected actively or preselected is important, because I still have the feeling that I'm just too dumb to figure out how it works (and to be fair, I may just be). redface

----

Now's the time for the 'Go Fight' button to be highlighted. Again, it should really be dimmed until this point. whee

----

Why doesn't it go ahead and play an attack animation, when you select the attack and the target? I know it's not perfectly accurate to combat, but when you have players act something out it feels better to have it actually resolve as well. Besides, the animations in the game are very visually impressive, and running through them is a good way to keep an otherwise 'boring, educational' tutorial exciting.

Ah, almost forgot! Also, the 'Done' button is rather boring, and doesn't communicate the fact that it automatically attacks for all your characters very well ("Done? No, I haven't even attacked yet..." ). Something more active, like 'Fight!' or 'Attack!', would be better suited, and would make it much more obvious that that's what it's there to do.

----

Have you considered calling Activity Points 'Combat Mana', or something? The functions are pretty similar, and since we already know that territories naturally generate a bit of Mana, it wouldn't be a stretch. Perhaps if we multiplied out-of-combat Mana values a bit, to indicate the larger scale? It just seems that presenting them as unique concepts is a little unncecessary, since their functions are so similar.

----

It wasn't until I played a bit that I realised that "Row" is a pre-determined stat for Units - the tutorial says that some will be in the front and some will be in the back, but doesn't really specify how that's determined. While I was playing it took me a while to figure out why sometimes the Units would be really close together, while other times they'd be spread out - on that note, when one side has only one Row (whether it's technically front or back), it really should just center them since it's irrelevant.

--------

Overall, there are a handful of elements the tutorial could stand to cover a little better - most are unfortunate 'surprises' a little gameplay sorts out naturally (like Victory Points and Cataclysms) while some are just generally convoluted (Mana production, and Combat 'focus'). I realise there are a few suggestions mixed in here that are more appropriate for the Design thread (and I'll keep them in mind when I do go to post there), but I did what I could to weed out the bits that weren't directly relevant to the tutorial itself...

Romantic Lover

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Celebriel
After the Tutorial ended the Let's begin button didn't work properly so I had to use the skip button.

This

Shameless Sage

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The starting tutorial needs to be much more in-depth with the mechanics. It needs to properly explain more about tactics for playing the game, especially about the strengths and weaknesses of each type of unit. To aid this, I would really like to be able to look at my 'deck', and examine the 'cards', so I can get a feel for them while I'm not in the middle of combat. In a TCG, there's a certain premeditation as to what cards are in your deck. Here, I'm handed something and am playing it blind. I don't have the ability to see what units might complement eachother, or even how many Attuners I have so I know I can't let one die. I know this aspect of the game is being worked on, but I felt I'd mention it early, and again, as the TCG aspect is one of the things that made me curious about the game in the first place.

In addition, the tutorial does not really explain how you win, at least not in a way that's spelled out. Are there multiple win conditions? Say, can I capture all the portals as one, or prevent my opponent from summoning as two? It may be in the tutorial, but if I missed it, others are sure to. You need to make it super obvious to the player.

I think a more interactive tutorial more like the one in zOMG! might be nice. Actually tell us what to do and what we can do as we move around an actual game in the beginning.

Sweet Glitch

GID=211665932

Tutorial did began from how battle instead of showing characters "Lets begin" didn't work.
Pressed "Skip" as recommended.

More in Client bug
Lost In The Red
Celebriel
After the Tutorial ended the Let's begin button didn't work properly so I had to use the skip button.

This

+1

Time-traveling Marshmallow

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since the map play area is different now, with your stats in the upper left corner and the enemy's in the upper right corner, will that need to be changed within the tutorial as well?

i am going through the tutorial and it has the old setting still appearing.

this.

it also appears that way for the mana well section, summoning from a portal, activity points, combat.

personally, i think keeping the tutorial pages this way is fine. don't change it since it would take too much space to point out what is the jist of learning and playing this game. and well, surely players will understand what is happening when they jump into their first game.


the "let's begin" button still doesn't work.

also adding here too, after skipping the end of the tutorial, when you are to choose your faction, under "kingdom" the last word is still blocked by the "more/less info" button.

screenie

Jaybody's Husbando

Spiritual Bro

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Just checked out the reshuffling of the forum into subforums for organization's sake.
But I noticed that the info text under the Bug Reports subforum link says Soul Crash instead of Heralds of Chaos.

Newbie Warlord

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Not sure which this goes in, but if I view my own posts, only the ones in stickies show up. sweatdrop

The my topics page works fine. 3nodding

Familiar Lunatic

Really need to clear up the many ways a fight can actually end, at least in the guide.
I was seriously confused a number of time. Latest update helps by telling you why you won, that's good :3

By my current understanding:

- Get 6 VPs first
- Eliminate all enemy units [currently on the field? Or empty their whole deck [what about spells]?]
- Win the tie breaking Final Batle [all units on field VS all theirs] which occurs when:

    - the field has colapsed to the point where it can't no more
    - both side gained 6 VPs at the same time [you get 1 more turn to summon, then al out battle >: D]


I think that's it and it's a lot more than "get 6 VPs" xD

Benevolent Codger

gataka
- Eliminate all enemy units [currently on the field? Or empty their whole deck [what about spells]?]

Go to the deckbuilder, and build a deck with only a Herald. Play. Obviously Empty decks aren't much of an issue. wink

The game only seems to end by capturing Units whenever you leave your opponent with no way to capture VPs or summon Units - I'm not sure if it checks his deck for summonable Units with access to his current Mana or what, but I seem to recall seeing the game continue even without Units currently on the field, until I was able to Capture their remaining VP; similarly, I've seen games continue without a VP, so long as they had a Unit left with the potential to capture one.
Quote:
- Win the tie breaking Final Batle [all units on field VS all theirs] which occurs when:

    - the field has colapsed to the point where it can't no more
    - both side gained 6 VPs at the same time [you get 1 more turn to summon, then al out battle >: D]

I'm not sure either of those are accurate. The first I've only seen as a glitch, and the battle never actually processed; it announced a battle between all of my Units and all of theirs, but ended the game before the battle could be resolved. Unless that was a glitch, itself, and has been resolved since I tried it. sweatdrop

I've seen the latter happen, but it doesn't appear to have any bearing on the outcome of the game - indeed, for me, that also resulted in a glitch where the game seemed to be 'stuck' on the preceding turn (where I expected the game to end in a tie). While I could announce Unit movements and summons normally, the step refused to actually resolve when I pressed 'Done'.

Either way - even if those were working properly - I think victory is determined by who has more VPs when the game finishes, so even if one wins the 'epic final battle', they can still lose handily if their opponent happens to have gained more VPs. The extra essence mitigates the effect of the loss, I suppose, but doesn't make it a 'win'. sweatdrop

That said, I have requested a bit more information on all of the game-end conditions, simply for ease of testing - it's hard to tell the severity of a glitch or how it's occurring if we don't know whether or how the game is supposed to end in different scenarios. Additionally, that would give a chance to offer feedback on whether or not all of those are necessary and important, and on how to consolidate into a simpler list of conditions for the sake of the understanding...

Familiar Lunatic

Red Kutai
gataka
- Eliminate all enemy units [currently on the field? Or empty their whole deck [what about spells]?]

Go to the deckbuilder, and build a deck with only a Herald. Play. Obviously Empty decks aren't much of an issue. wink

The game only seems to end by capturing Units whenever you leave your opponent with no way to capture VPs or summon Units - I'm not sure if it checks his deck for summonable Units with access to his current Mana or what, but I seem to recall seeing the game continue even without Units currently on the field, until I was able to Capture their remaining VP; similarly, I've seen games continue without a VP, so long as they had a Unit left with the potential to capture one.
Quote:
- Win the tie breaking Final Batle [all units on field VS all theirs] which occurs when:

    - the field has colapsed to the point where it can't no more
    - both side gained 6 VPs at the same time [you get 1 more turn to summon, then al out battle >: D]

I'm not sure either of those are accurate. The first I've only seen as a glitch, and the battle never actually processed; it announced a battle between all of my Units and all of theirs, but ended the game before the battle could be resolved. Unless that was a glitch, itself, and has been resolved since I tried it. sweatdrop

I've seen the latter happen, but it doesn't appear to have any bearing on the outcome of the game - indeed, for me, that also resulted in a glitch where the game seemed to be 'stuck' on the preceding turn (where I expected the game to end in a tie). While I could announce Unit movements and summons normally, the step refused to actually resolve when I pressed 'Done'.

Either way - even if those were working properly - I think victory is determined by who has more VPs when the game finishes, so even if one wins the 'epic final battle', they can still lose handily if their opponent happens to have gained more VPs. The extra essence mitigates the effect of the loss, I suppose, but doesn't make it a 'win'. sweatdrop

That said, I have requested a bit more information on all of the game-end conditions, simply for ease of testing - it's hard to tell the severity of a glitch or how it's occurring if we don't know whether or how the game is supposed to end in different scenarios. Additionally, that would give a chance to offer feedback on whether or not all of those are necessary and important, and on how to consolidate into a simpler list of conditions for the sake of the understanding...

Why didn't I think of that emotion_awesome

I'm pretty I've won matchs over Final Battles since the last update but yes, this all needs clearing up.

Benevolent Codger

gataka
Why didn't I think of that emotion_awesome

Because the tutorial and guide both lie and tell you you need 30 cards to build a deck. emotion_awesome
Quote:
I'm pretty I've won matchs over Final Battles since the last update but yes, this all needs clearing up.

Ah, well you're playing in territory I'm not wholely familiar with. It'd be nice if they could inform us of what they were fixing, so we could know when it's worthwhile to go back and re-test things... sweatdrop

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