Gaia nerfed gold gen??

[WhipWhip]

Naturalist

Everything sort've nerfs after the first day. Pretty sure you get crappier items from item RIGs too after the first day. Or it could just be me

I was wary of bringing this point up myself, but Ive noticed the same thing.

First day, people always reporting huge amazing wins. After a few days, notsomuch. And as long as theyve been around, Ive noticed this sort of trend.

It could be that more are opened on the first day or two so the rares just have more opportunity to rear their rare heads...

[Gash Thrashum]

Six Mekhane

Gash Thrashum

Six Mekhane

So I guess the nerfed gold was a glitch?

That's the official explanation, but I doubt it was a glitch. It's only a "glitch" because enough people were making noise this time. They should really reconsider releasing gold gens that give out high average payouts in the first place since it's clear they won't do away with them permanently. Honestly though, they're going to appease those who give them cash. There are a significant number of people invested in their gold generators, though it's a quiet segment so it doesn't appear to be prevalent on the surface. These users demand higher and higher payouts as the hyperinflation gets worse, so in order to get sales, Gaia increases the average payouts. It's a vicious cycle once it gets going. If they would simply stabilize the market and sink a ton of gold using the methods I previously outlined, the payouts wouldn't need to be as high. They can slowly bring the market back down while sparingly selling gold generators if they repeat these steps.

If you buy into the "glitch" explanation, that should be worrying, too. If their gold generators can easily glitch to that extent, just imagine the reverse happening where it's a huge increase in gold payouts. What gold gen user is going to complain about that? It would go unchecked for much longer periods of time and you can say hello to hyper (hyper) hyperinflation x2 super ultimate edition like you've been transported back to the Weimar Republic.

I'm not much for conspiracy theories. With Gaia's track record, a glitch is completely plausible.

If the gold gens were ever to glitch bad enough where they're spitting out 10T every hit, I think there's enough anti-goldgen crusaders in the GCD and SF forums to make sure that Gaia (users and staff) doesn't get away with it.

People thought 133TGATE was a conspiracy theory, but it took me and a friend to really kick things into gear and uncover what was going on after staff openly lied about what was happening. They would have gotten away with that if not for what we started and ultimately, the backlash from our community. Even then, they didn't correct most of the problem (excess gold they poured into the economy). I see no reason why they would bother to do anything about a gold gen granting too much gold if it became widespread. They're not going to freeze hundreds of accounts or roll back the site.

There's really no reason for me to give them the befit of the doubt on the "glitch" explanation when previous gold generators have followed a similar trajectory. Again, if it was indeed a "glitch," then not only would this be one of a handful of times said "glitch" occurred, but it would show utter negligence and a potential for future economic catastrophes. If you're using Gaia's track record to determine plausibility, then you'd also have to be open to the idea that they're not being truthful.

[Six Mekhane]

Gash Thrashum

Six Mekhane

Gash Thrashum

Six Mekhane

So I guess the nerfed gold was a glitch?

That's the official explanation, but I doubt it was a glitch. It's only a "glitch" because enough people were making noise this time. They should really reconsider releasing gold gens that give out high average payouts in the first place since it's clear they won't do away with them permanently. Honestly though, they're going to appease those who give them cash. There are a significant number of people invested in their gold generators, though it's a quiet segment so it doesn't appear to be prevalent on the surface. These users demand higher and higher payouts as the hyperinflation gets worse, so in order to get sales, Gaia increases the average payouts. It's a vicious cycle once it gets going. If they would simply stabilize the market and sink a ton of gold using the methods I previously outlined, the payouts wouldn't need to be as high. They can slowly bring the market back down while sparingly selling gold generators if they repeat these steps.

If you buy into the "glitch" explanation, that should be worrying, too. If their gold generators can easily glitch to that extent, just imagine the reverse happening where it's a huge increase in gold payouts. What gold gen user is going to complain about that? It would go unchecked for much longer periods of time and you can say hello to hyper (hyper) hyperinflation x2 super ultimate edition like you've been transported back to the Weimar Republic.

I'm not much for conspiracy theories. With Gaia's track record, a glitch is completely plausible.

If the gold gens were ever to glitch bad enough where they're spitting out 10T every hit, I think there's enough anti-goldgen crusaders in the GCD and SF forums to make sure that Gaia (users and staff) doesn't get away with it.

People thought 133TGATE was a conspiracy theory, but it took me and a friend to really kick things into gear and uncover what was going on after staff openly lied about what was happening. They would have gotten away with that if not for what we started and ultimately, the backlash from our community. Even then, they didn't correct most of the problem (excess gold they poured into the economy). I see no reason why they would bother to do anything about a gold gen granting too much gold if it became widespread. They're not going to freeze hundreds of accounts or roll back the site.

There's really no reason for me to give them the befit of the doubt on the "glitch" explanation when previous gold generators have followed a similar trajectory. Again, if it was indeed a "glitch," then not only would this be one of a handful of times said "glitch" occurred, but it would show utter negligence and a potential for future economic catastrophes. If you're using Gaia's track record to determine plausibility, then you'd also have to be open to the idea that they're not being truthful.

I think 133TGate was different: there was a good reason for them to lie. The impression I get from staff is that they don't actually play the game of Gaia very much (if at all), so they dont know (or don't care to know) the mechanics of the marketplace. So after realizing they massively ******** up, lying about it seemed like a reasonable, fast solution. A bad decision and unprofessional in the long term, but only because they got caught.

This is outright dumb though.

"This is a thing we get a strong income from, let's nerf it without telling anyone and hope that nobody notices" I mean, really???

I'm not even trying to defend them, I just hope they would have the iota of business sense to keep racking up gold payout to maintain GC supremacy. Not a great plan long-term, but I don't think Gaia ever thought in the long term.

[Twerkathon]

I'm not sure why this thread being voted down so many time o.o

[sapphyredragon]

Morgue

Gash Thrashum

Morgue

Gash Thrashum

Licornia

while I understand the sentiment of WANTING the gold gens to be nerfed, it's still bad business practice to nerf it this much without mentioning.

I find it in bad taste to call other users entitled and spoiled just because they bought those gold gens. So what? It's their choice and they got screwed over bigtime with this.

This is a bad business practice I might be able to support if it deters people from buying future gold generators. I have much more sympathy for the majority of Gaians who are dealt a shitty hand at the expense of gold generators being made available and ultimately purchased/opened. Look at this.



See that sudden, incredibly large spike towards the latter half of 2014? That was a result of Gaia staff making absurdly high purchases on the MP including a ticket for 133 trillion gold, hence "133TGATE" being coined (hah). That was a big deal when it happened and so large that it was difficult not to notice, especially with how it impacted market prices. Now, look at the last couple of months. What do you notice? Not only has the MP revenue surpassed that, but it's being surpassed on a regular basis! That is worrying. You know what else is worrying? I made a thread about this when I first noticed it back in December, and I had a staff member come into my thread (almost instantly) to express bewilderment over it. In fact, it seemed so bizarre to them, that they said they would investigate it. I'm not blaming staff of course since I have no proof of anything, but there was a gold generator (Walk in the Woods) released at the time that was handing out large amounts of gold regularly.

Actually, looking back at that thread I just linked, it's curious to see bluealaris deleted their post. Also, to bring it back on topic, I was notified by a user that this specific gold generator had been "nerfed" after I made the topic, just like this one seems to have been. You can come to your own conclusion here, since there are a few possibilities—the most benign possibility being that they've made mistakes with the average payouts and have had to go back and adjust them. It's clear however, that they're being mismanaged at the very least.

We had a relatively calm period after the 133TGATE fiasco where the market settled down a good deal and things stabilized, but what was working to help the economy recover is clearly no longer at play now.

We need better gold sinks, regular ones that are consistently updated. That's part of the problem. Aside from that, I have a huge problem with that sneaky behavior.

Gold shop gold gens (for those who can't resist the gamble, works as a sink), gold sink events that aren't coupled with a GC gold generator (the gold generator ironically puts in more gold than the sink removes, so it's rendered useless), gold shop limited items with a 50+ billion price tag in Dernier Cri and Flynn's Plunder as a means to remove gold from the economy with high priced items such as A. Halos and project tickets. They CANNOT be halos and tickets that already exist on the site, however, as that would be pointless and we saw what happened the last time. They can easily remove large chunks of gold from the rich by putting tickets up for bid. One issue with regular gold sinks is that they don't specifically target wealthy users, so the gap isn't closed between classes. With Flynn's Plunder, you can specifically target rich users.

I'm all for gold shop item gens. The problem is that they prioritize creating content that gives the site monetary income instead of removing virtual income. They need to find balance & create sinks that can be utilized by all Gaians with all different gold spending budgets. I have my doubts that they will go about doing that properly. Gaia has a tendency to put out features and then ignore them or get rid of them if they're not immediately convenient or successful for them to run. Alchemy could have been something great if they worked on it a little bit instead of just dropping it & leaving it for dead.

If the problem is that Gaia can't figure out how to get the formula right, then yes, they should not release gold generators until they get it straight.

But let me explain why I think Gold Generators are an excellent way to bring the economy back.

First of all, the market cap used to be too low. Period. Maybe that was good for some reasons, but overall it was a much better decision to raise the cap, especially with the flood of items that have been coming out. Gaia has been working its butt off (thank you, Gaia!) getting us tons and tons of new, gorgeous items. They've been putting in a LOT of effort. With the Project Tickets and Custom SDPlus Dolls, Gaia has done so much work lately. Also, no one would have ever been able to buy a Project Ticket because they SHOULD be worth more than any other item. Only the people sitting around with a couple of Halos would've even had a shot.

I've heard complaints from so many users that Gaia doesn't have enough items of X, Y, or Z color/style and over the last several months--None of that. Everyone is enjoying the gorgeous items they're creating. People have been able to complete avis that they never thought they'd have the right items for. There has been SOOOO much excitement over each of the releases. Just look at the marketplace! So many of the newer items are beating out items that were considered classics! Why? Because they are very well done and Gaia has put in a lot of effort.

In our economy right now, the poor can't really afford anything. Heck, if you aren't super rich, you probably can't afford much, anyway! Because of that people are only spending their money on things they really, truly want. (Or for profit...) Which means money does not go right back into the economy.

There has been too much inflation already. You can't just reverse that. You just have to adapt. The majority of gold on Gaia is spent on items. Items are what people want. Yet, despite the fact that the gold is VERY unevenly distrubuted, people still only want pure for trades. The inflation caused the value of EVERYTHING to go up. Sinking gold is NOT MAKING PRICES GO DOWN. I have no idea why anyone thought that would happen. People are used to the higher amounts of gold now, why settle for less? Someone, somewhere, will have the money for it. Which means, to stimulate the economy, gold generators are a great option.

For example, let's say you have GCash. You could get 10 Gold Generators or 10 of the current RIG.
The RIG item gives you a crappy payout about 40% of the time. The crappy payout is valued at approximately 1 bil AMP. Do you think you'll be lucky enough to even get 1 bil each out of the 3-5 that you got from your RIG? Uh, no. Not likely. Everyone else is in the same boat as you there. Another 40% of the time, you get items that are worth 3-17 bil. But you won't get that much for them, either, unless you hoard them and hope the price goes back up when the RIG is gone. Which makes it a long-term investment. Another 15% you get items valued between 20 and 99 bil. Those will make a profit, but only if you make sure you have the lowest market price ALWAYS. There will be more on the market than people actually want to buy. This means the value is constantly dropping. That last 5% (meaning you have probably not even a 50% chance of getting one of these since you only bought 10 RIGs) tend to be worth 100+ bil. You will only get the price you want if you are one of the very first posters and someone snagged the item quick. Otherwise, it'll probably drop to 2/3 value if not 1/2. Odds are, unless you did the RIG with the intention of keeping the items, you will be disappointed in your profits.
The Gold Gens piss you off and give you less than a billion occasionally, but when you average the 10 drops, it comes out to approximately 8-10 billion per drop. There's also a small chance that one of those payouts will be 30 bil, 50 bil, or several hundred bil!

Basically, what I'm saying is that the total values of the items from the RIG compared to the Gold Gen is VERY close. But one gives you pure gold that you can then turn around and put directly into the economy. The RIG leaves you with disappointment because the values of the items just keep dropping. Worth it if you get the super rare drop from the RIG, but otherwise, not so much.

You want as much profit as you can so that you can have enough gold to put back into the economy, right? The logical conclusion, then, is that Gold Generators are the quickest way to stimulate the economy. No one has to lose out on profits, Gaia earns real money to pay for the maintenance of the site we all love, and now you've got some gold to buy from the marketplace or maybe even to donate to someone's quest.

[Gash Thrashum]

Six Mekhane

Gash Thrashum

Six Mekhane

Gash Thrashum

Six Mekhane

So I guess the nerfed gold was a glitch?

That's the official explanation, but I doubt it was a glitch. It's only a "glitch" because enough people were making noise this time. They should really reconsider releasing gold gens that give out high average payouts in the first place since it's clear they won't do away with them permanently. Honestly though, they're going to appease those who give them cash. There are a significant number of people invested in their gold generators, though it's a quiet segment so it doesn't appear to be prevalent on the surface. These users demand higher and higher payouts as the hyperinflation gets worse, so in order to get sales, Gaia increases the average payouts. It's a vicious cycle once it gets going. If they would simply stabilize the market and sink a ton of gold using the methods I previously outlined, the payouts wouldn't need to be as high. They can slowly bring the market back down while sparingly selling gold generators if they repeat these steps.

If you buy into the "glitch" explanation, that should be worrying, too. If their gold generators can easily glitch to that extent, just imagine the reverse happening where it's a huge increase in gold payouts. What gold gen user is going to complain about that? It would go unchecked for much longer periods of time and you can say hello to hyper (hyper) hyperinflation x2 super ultimate edition like you've been transported back to the Weimar Republic.

I'm not much for conspiracy theories. With Gaia's track record, a glitch is completely plausible.

If the gold gens were ever to glitch bad enough where they're spitting out 10T every hit, I think there's enough anti-goldgen crusaders in the GCD and SF forums to make sure that Gaia (users and staff) doesn't get away with it.

People thought 133TGATE was a conspiracy theory, but it took me and a friend to really kick things into gear and uncover what was going on after staff openly lied about what was happening. They would have gotten away with that if not for what we started and ultimately, the backlash from our community. Even then, they didn't correct most of the problem (excess gold they poured into the economy). I see no reason why they would bother to do anything about a gold gen granting too much gold if it became widespread. They're not going to freeze hundreds of accounts or roll back the site.

There's really no reason for me to give them the befit of the doubt on the "glitch" explanation when previous gold generators have followed a similar trajectory. Again, if it was indeed a "glitch," then not only would this be one of a handful of times said "glitch" occurred, but it would show utter negligence and a potential for future economic catastrophes. If you're using Gaia's track record to determine plausibility, then you'd also have to be open to the idea that they're not being truthful.

I think 133TGate was different: there was a good reason for them to lie. The impression I get from staff is that they don't actually play the game of Gaia very much (if at all), so they dont know (or don't care to know) the mechanics of the marketplace. So after realizing they massively ******** up, lying about it seemed like a reasonable, fast solution. A bad decision and unprofessional in the long term, but only because they got caught.

This is outright dumb though.

"This is a thing we get a strong income from, let's nerf it without telling anyone and hope that nobody notices" I mean, really???

I'm not even trying to defend them, I just hope they would have the iota of business sense to keep racking up gold payout to maintain GC supremacy. Not a great plan long-term, but I don't think Gaia ever thought in the long term.

It's just not very plausible to me that they would have the same "glitch" occurring in multiple gold generators that were paying out very high averages. That Gaia staff appeared to be alarmed by the payouts in December from "Walk in the Woods" (which was also nerfed) and even took the time to look into it before deleting posts related to it, should raise some eyebrows. I don't buy into the idea that this "glitch" keeps occurring with the same types of gold generators; I believe the increases/decreases are intentional. I also don't think it'll ultimately hurt their bottom line as it hasn't in the past. People who purchase these gold gens will simply open them sooner now or purchase when they're first released if they think the payout is good. It seems like they chose to address it this time because of how vocal some of the users have been. Not surprised since this generator appears to have been popular given the stupidly high amounts of gold it was spewing.

I think there are staff members that know the dynamics of the market very well. I mean, they've only had to read through thousands of complaints over the last year and a half and deal with plenty of MP-related issues. It doesn't take much of a genius to figure out, so I'm not going to assume they're that incompetent.

[koolknight]

better late than never right? gonk

[Gash Thrashum]

sapphyredragon

Morgue

Gash Thrashum

Morgue

Gash Thrashum

Licornia

while I understand the sentiment of WANTING the gold gens to be nerfed, it's still bad business practice to nerf it this much without mentioning.

I find it in bad taste to call other users entitled and spoiled just because they bought those gold gens. So what? It's their choice and they got screwed over bigtime with this.

This is a bad business practice I might be able to support if it deters people from buying future gold generators. I have much more sympathy for the majority of Gaians who are dealt a shitty hand at the expense of gold generators being made available and ultimately purchased/opened. Look at this.



See that sudden, incredibly large spike towards the latter half of 2014? That was a result of Gaia staff making absurdly high purchases on the MP including a ticket for 133 trillion gold, hence "133TGATE" being coined (hah). That was a big deal when it happened and so large that it was difficult not to notice, especially with how it impacted market prices. Now, look at the last couple of months. What do you notice? Not only has the MP revenue surpassed that, but it's being surpassed on a regular basis! That is worrying. You know what else is worrying? I made a thread about this when I first noticed it back in December, and I had a staff member come into my thread (almost instantly) to express bewilderment over it. In fact, it seemed so bizarre to them, that they said they would investigate it. I'm not blaming staff of course since I have no proof of anything, but there was a gold generator (Walk in the Woods) released at the time that was handing out large amounts of gold regularly.

Actually, looking back at that thread I just linked, it's curious to see bluealaris deleted their post. Also, to bring it back on topic, I was notified by a user that this specific gold generator had been "nerfed" after I made the topic, just like this one seems to have been. You can come to your own conclusion here, since there are a few possibilities—the most benign possibility being that they've made mistakes with the average payouts and have had to go back and adjust them. It's clear however, that they're being mismanaged at the very least.

We had a relatively calm period after the 133TGATE fiasco where the market settled down a good deal and things stabilized, but what was working to help the economy recover is clearly no longer at play now.

We need better gold sinks, regular ones that are consistently updated. That's part of the problem. Aside from that, I have a huge problem with that sneaky behavior.

Gold shop gold gens (for those who can't resist the gamble, works as a sink), gold sink events that aren't coupled with a GC gold generator (the gold generator ironically puts in more gold than the sink removes, so it's rendered useless), gold shop limited items with a 50+ billion price tag in Dernier Cri and Flynn's Plunder as a means to remove gold from the economy with high priced items such as A. Halos and project tickets. They CANNOT be halos and tickets that already exist on the site, however, as that would be pointless and we saw what happened the last time. They can easily remove large chunks of gold from the rich by putting tickets up for bid. One issue with regular gold sinks is that they don't specifically target wealthy users, so the gap isn't closed between classes. With Flynn's Plunder, you can specifically target rich users.

I'm all for gold shop item gens. The problem is that they prioritize creating content that gives the site monetary income instead of removing virtual income. They need to find balance & create sinks that can be utilized by all Gaians with all different gold spending budgets. I have my doubts that they will go about doing that properly. Gaia has a tendency to put out features and then ignore them or get rid of them if they're not immediately convenient or successful for them to run. Alchemy could have been something great if they worked on it a little bit instead of just dropping it & leaving it for dead.

If the problem is that Gaia can't figure out how to get the formula right, then yes, they should not release gold generators until they get it straight.

But let me explain why I think Gold Generators are an excellent way to bring the economy back.

First of all, the market cap used to be too low. Period. Maybe that was good for some reasons, but overall it was a much better decision to raise the cap, especially with the flood of items that have been coming out. Gaia has been working its butt off (thank you, Gaia!) getting us tons and tons of new, gorgeous items. They've been putting in a LOT of effort. With the Project Tickets and Custom SDPlus Dolls, Gaia has done so much work lately. Also, no one would have ever been able to buy a Project Ticket because they SHOULD be worth more than any other item. Only the people sitting around with a couple of Halos would've even had a shot.

I've heard complaints from so many users that Gaia doesn't have enough items of X, Y, or Z color/style and over the last several months--None of that. Everyone is enjoying the gorgeous items they're creating. People have been able to complete avis that they never thought they'd have the right items for. There has been SOOOO much excitement over each of the releases. Just look at the marketplace! So many of the newer items are beating out items that were considered classics! Why? Because they are very well done and Gaia has put in a lot of effort.

In our economy right now, the poor can't really afford anything. Heck, if you aren't super rich, you probably can't afford much, anyway! Because of that people are only spending their money on things they really, truly want. (Or for profit...) Which means money does not go right back into the economy.

There has been too much inflation already. You can't just reverse that. You just have to adapt. The majority of gold on Gaia is spent on items. Items are what people want. Yet, despite the fact that the gold is VERY unevenly distrubuted, people still only want pure for trades. The inflation caused the value of EVERYTHING to go up. Sinking gold is NOT MAKING PRICES GO DOWN. I have no idea why anyone thought that would happen. People are used to the higher amounts of gold now, why settle for less? Someone, somewhere, will have the money for it. Which means, to stimulate the economy, gold generators are a great option.

For example, let's say you have GCash. You could get 10 Gold Generators or 10 of the current RIG.
The RIG item gives you a crappy payout about 40% of the time. The crappy payout is valued at approximately 1 bil AMP. Do you think you'll be lucky enough to even get 1 bil each out of the 3-5 that you got from your RIG? Uh, no. Not likely. Everyone else is in the same boat as you there. Another 40% of the time, you get items that are worth 3-17 bil. But you won't get that much for them, either, unless you hoard them and hope the price goes back up when the RIG is gone. Which makes it a long-term investment. Another 15% you get items valued between 20 and 99 bil. Those will make a profit, but only if you make sure you have the lowest market price ALWAYS. There will be more on the market than people actually want to buy. This means the value is constantly dropping. That last 5% (meaning you have probably not even a 50% chance of getting one of these since you only bought 10 RIGs) tend to be worth 100+ bil. You will only get the price you want if you are one of the very first posters and someone snagged the item quick. Otherwise, it'll probably drop to 2/3 value if not 1/2. Odds are, unless you did the RIG with the intention of keeping the items, you will be disappointed in your profits.
The Gold Gens piss you off and give you less than a billion occasionally, but when you average the 10 drops, it comes out to approximately 8-10 billion per drop. There's also a small chance that one of those payouts will be 30 bil, 50 bil, or several hundred bil!

Basically, what I'm saying is that the total values of the items from the RIG compared to the Gold Gen is VERY close. But one gives you pure gold that you can then turn around and put directly into the economy. The RIG leaves you with disappointment because the values of the items just keep dropping. Worth it if you get the super rare drop from the RIG, but otherwise, not so much.

You want as much profit as you can so that you can have enough gold to put back into the economy, right? The logical conclusion, then, is that Gold Generators are the quickest way to stimulate the economy. No one has to lose out on profits, Gaia earns real money to pay for the maintenance of the site we all love, and now you've got some gold to buy from the marketplace or maybe even to donate to someone's quest.

No disrespect, but I don't think you quite grasp how an economy works. I'm not going to reply to the entirety of your post since it feels redundant to do so, but I will address the section I highlighted.

Yes, I agree that we're too far-gone to ever return back to Gaia's economy circa 2012. However, ceasing the sale of gold generators coupled with steady gold sinks has absolutely, 100% been proven to not only show a sizable decrease in the price of items, but also stability. Hyperinflation is NEVER a good thing, so it's a bit baffling that you would suggest further inflation as a solution to the inflation. The economy doesn't work that way. The instances where gold sinks don't work is when they decide to sell gold generators alongside them, which defeats the purpose.

Even just taking a rudimentary look at the situation, it's easy to see the positive effects of real gold sinks coupled with fewer gold generators/lower payouts/periods of time without them. Here's the MP revenue graph, yet again. I bet you can tell where Gaia decided to get a little serious about the economy after the 133TGATE fiasco.



I watch the MP like a hawk, so I'm always well aware of the trends. I watched the MP throughout that entire period of time, and witnessed how drastically prices were dropping on items that were going for absurd amounts of gold.

If you want to shorten the gap between the rich and the poor, I described one way to do it in a previous post. It sounds like you're missing the forest for the trees. If you're not a Gaia Cash user, you WILL be left in the dust by sudden economic shifts trending toward hyperinflation. The non-cash user who once had a comfortable amount to get by in a stable economy, suddenly loses much of the value they had in gold and can no longer purchase any of the newer items. And while the items in their inventory may increase in value, so does everything else barring re-releases. Chances are they're items the user doesn't want to sell, as well.

Maybe you're trying to justify the existence and use of gold generators, maybe you genuinely don't understand. In either case, I hope you ultimately see why hyperinflation is terrible.

[The Iron Magus]

Aradia Dracaena

The Iron Magus

Squirrelette

i spent 650bil on an 100pk, assuming they were the same so i would make back everything plus profit as i did in the past with them.... no

im ********
i was over a tril
and now im at 687bil
and honestly if im not over 1tril i dont even feel like being on here... its depressing
if i would have had a warning i wouldnt have got them


******** you again Gaia.

rofl AHAHAHAHAHA
Hashtag first world problems
Holy CRAP you sound like a spoiled little rich girl. lol

I've never even had a trillion in pure... I consider myself lucky if I'm in the tens of billions.
But by all means, if you "don't even feel like being on here"... I will gladly take that meager 687 bil off your hands. emotion_awesome

...you sound nice.

Look, losing a third of your gold isn't fun for anyone, although I must that I don't get buying and selling gold gens for GOLD. Why would you do that? but that's what happened here. Lesson learned, if you buy them, don't buy or open them when they are on sale. No need to be rude, this person didn't buy it from the cash shop so the inflation was already gonna happen no matter who opened it.

You sound like one of those people who thinks being critical of someone's prices and begging for ABP when they're already the lowest in the market is a good way to get someone to do you a favour and lower it.

Yeah, laughing at the misfortunes of others is never exactly a nice move. I couldn't help it... it was like listening to someone whine about how they crashed their Lamborghini, and were "stuck" driving the Lexus...

Though, all the projection about the MP begging strikes me as a bit odd. lol

Vend a lot?

[sapphyredragon]

Gash Thrashum

sapphyredragon

Morgue

Gash Thrashum

Morgue

We need better gold sinks, regular ones that are consistently updated. That's part of the problem. Aside from that, I have a huge problem with that sneaky behavior.

Gold shop gold gens (for those who can't resist the gamble, works as a sink), gold sink events that aren't coupled with a GC gold generator (the gold generator ironically puts in more gold than the sink removes, so it's rendered useless), gold shop limited items with a 50+ billion price tag in Dernier Cri and Flynn's Plunder as a means to remove gold from the economy with high priced items such as A. Halos and project tickets. They CANNOT be halos and tickets that already exist on the site, however, as that would be pointless and we saw what happened the last time. They can easily remove large chunks of gold from the rich by putting tickets up for bid. One issue with regular gold sinks is that they don't specifically target wealthy users, so the gap isn't closed between classes. With Flynn's Plunder, you can specifically target rich users.

I'm all for gold shop item gens. The problem is that they prioritize creating content that gives the site monetary income instead of removing virtual income. They need to find balance & create sinks that can be utilized by all Gaians with all different gold spending budgets. I have my doubts that they will go about doing that properly. Gaia has a tendency to put out features and then ignore them or get rid of them if they're not immediately convenient or successful for them to run. Alchemy could have been something great if they worked on it a little bit instead of just dropping it & leaving it for dead.

If the problem is that Gaia can't figure out how to get the formula right, then yes, they should not release gold generators until they get it straight.

But let me explain why I think Gold Generators are an excellent way to bring the economy back.

First of all, the market cap used to be too low. Period. Maybe that was good for some reasons, but overall it was a much better decision to raise the cap, especially with the flood of items that have been coming out. Gaia has been working its butt off (thank you, Gaia!) getting us tons and tons of new, gorgeous items. They've been putting in a LOT of effort. With the Project Tickets and Custom SDPlus Dolls, Gaia has done so much work lately. Also, no one would have ever been able to buy a Project Ticket because they SHOULD be worth more than any other item. Only the people sitting around with a couple of Halos would've even had a shot.

I've heard complaints from so many users that Gaia doesn't have enough items of X, Y, or Z color/style and over the last several months--None of that. Everyone is enjoying the gorgeous items they're creating. People have been able to complete avis that they never thought they'd have the right items for. There has been SOOOO much excitement over each of the releases. Just look at the marketplace! So many of the newer items are beating out items that were considered classics! Why? Because they are very well done and Gaia has put in a lot of effort.

In our economy right now, the poor can't really afford anything. Heck, if you aren't super rich, you probably can't afford much, anyway! Because of that people are only spending their money on things they really, truly want. (Or for profit...) Which means money does not go right back into the economy.

There has been too much inflation already. You can't just reverse that. You just have to adapt. The majority of gold on Gaia is spent on items. Items are what people want. Yet, despite the fact that the gold is VERY unevenly distrubuted, people still only want pure for trades. The inflation caused the value of EVERYTHING to go up. Sinking gold is NOT MAKING PRICES GO DOWN. I have no idea why anyone thought that would happen. People are used to the higher amounts of gold now, why settle for less? Someone, somewhere, will have the money for it. Which means, to stimulate the economy, gold generators are a great option.

For example, let's say you have GCash. You could get 10 Gold Generators or 10 of the current RIG.
The RIG item gives you a crappy payout about 40% of the time. The crappy payout is valued at approximately 1 bil AMP. Do you think you'll be lucky enough to even get 1 bil each out of the 3-5 that you got from your RIG? Uh, no. Not likely. Everyone else is in the same boat as you there. Another 40% of the time, you get items that are worth 3-17 bil. But you won't get that much for them, either, unless you hoard them and hope the price goes back up when the RIG is gone. Which makes it a long-term investment. Another 15% you get items valued between 20 and 99 bil. Those will make a profit, but only if you make sure you have the lowest market price ALWAYS. There will be more on the market than people actually want to buy. This means the value is constantly dropping. That last 5% (meaning you have probably not even a 50% chance of getting one of these since you only bought 10 RIGs) tend to be worth 100+ bil. You will only get the price you want if you are one of the very first posters and someone snagged the item quick. Otherwise, it'll probably drop to 2/3 value if not 1/2. Odds are, unless you did the RIG with the intention of keeping the items, you will be disappointed in your profits.
The Gold Gens piss you off and give you less than a billion occasionally, but when you average the 10 drops, it comes out to approximately 8-10 billion per drop. There's also a small chance that one of those payouts will be 30 bil, 50 bil, or several hundred bil!

Basically, what I'm saying is that the total values of the items from the RIG compared to the Gold Gen is VERY close. But one gives you pure gold that you can then turn around and put directly into the economy. The RIG leaves you with disappointment because the values of the items just keep dropping. Worth it if you get the super rare drop from the RIG, but otherwise, not so much.

You want as much profit as you can so that you can have enough gold to put back into the economy, right? The logical conclusion, then, is that Gold Generators are the quickest way to stimulate the economy. No one has to lose out on profits, Gaia earns real money to pay for the maintenance of the site we all love, and now you've got some gold to buy from the marketplace or maybe even to donate to someone's quest.

No disrespect, but I don't think you quite grasp how an economy works. I'm not going to reply to the entirety of your post since it feels redundant to do so, but I will address the section I highlighted.

Yes, I agree that we're too far-gone to ever return back to Gaia's economy circa 2012. However, ceasing the sale of gold generators coupled with steady gold sinks has absolutely, 100% been proven to not only show a sizable decrease in the price of items, but also stability. Hyperinflation is NEVER a good thing, so it's a bit baffling that you would suggest further inflation as a solution to the inflation. The economy doesn't work that way.

Even just taking a rudimentary look at the situation, it's easy to see the positive effects of real gold sinks coupled with fewer gold generators/lower payouts/periods of time without them. Here's the MP revenue graph, yet again. I bet you can tell where Gaia decided to get a little serious about the economy after the 133TGATE fiasco.



I watch the MP like a hawk, so I'm always well aware of the trends. I watched the MP throughout that entire period of time, and witnessed how drastically prices were dropping on items that were going for absurd amounts of gold.

If you want to shorten the gap between the rich and the poor, I described one way to do it in a previous post. It sounds like you're missing the forest for the trees. If you're not a Gaia Cash user, you WILL be left in the dust by sudden economic shifts trending toward hyperinflation. The non-cash user who once had a comfortable amount to get by in a stable economy, suddenly loses much of the value they had in gold and can no longer purchase any of the newer items. And while the items in their inventory may increase in value, so does everything else barring re-releases. Chances are they're items the user doesn't want to sell, as well.

Maybe you're trying to justify the existence and use of gold generators, maybe you genuinely don't understand. In either case, I hope you ultimately see why hyperinflation is terrible.

I'm gonna have to take the time to respond to this tomorrow, but I do want to point something out.
You keep equating the GCash to money in a reality situation. Gold Generators are NOT the equivalent to printing money. What I am saying is that deflation will take literally years. Gaia would die before then if we don't come up with another solution.

Unless you are saying that buying ANYTHING AT ALL in the cash shop causes inflation and ruins the economy, I have no idea why you think the gold generators do. The only thing wrong with them is if they are giving to big of a payout. What I am telling you is that the Gold Generators are on-par with RIGs. They do not pop out more valuable stuff than the RIGs do. You just feel like it is worse because it is pure gold. Pure gold is what the economy needs. Unless you're gonna create jobs or something for us?

[Gash Thrashum]

sapphyredragon

Gash Thrashum

sapphyredragon

Morgue

Gash Thrashum

Morgue

We need better gold sinks, regular ones that are consistently updated. That's part of the problem. Aside from that, I have a huge problem with that sneaky behavior.

Gold shop gold gens (for those who can't resist the gamble, works as a sink), gold sink events that aren't coupled with a GC gold generator (the gold generator ironically puts in more gold than the sink removes, so it's rendered useless), gold shop limited items with a 50+ billion price tag in Dernier Cri and Flynn's Plunder as a means to remove gold from the economy with high priced items such as A. Halos and project tickets. They CANNOT be halos and tickets that already exist on the site, however, as that would be pointless and we saw what happened the last time. They can easily remove large chunks of gold from the rich by putting tickets up for bid. One issue with regular gold sinks is that they don't specifically target wealthy users, so the gap isn't closed between classes. With Flynn's Plunder, you can specifically target rich users.

I'm all for gold shop item gens. The problem is that they prioritize creating content that gives the site monetary income instead of removing virtual income. They need to find balance & create sinks that can be utilized by all Gaians with all different gold spending budgets. I have my doubts that they will go about doing that properly. Gaia has a tendency to put out features and then ignore them or get rid of them if they're not immediately convenient or successful for them to run. Alchemy could have been something great if they worked on it a little bit instead of just dropping it & leaving it for dead.

If the problem is that Gaia can't figure out how to get the formula right, then yes, they should not release gold generators until they get it straight.

But let me explain why I think Gold Generators are an excellent way to bring the economy back.

First of all, the market cap used to be too low. Period. Maybe that was good for some reasons, but overall it was a much better decision to raise the cap, especially with the flood of items that have been coming out. Gaia has been working its butt off (thank you, Gaia!) getting us tons and tons of new, gorgeous items. They've been putting in a LOT of effort. With the Project Tickets and Custom SDPlus Dolls, Gaia has done so much work lately. Also, no one would have ever been able to buy a Project Ticket because they SHOULD be worth more than any other item. Only the people sitting around with a couple of Halos would've even had a shot.

I've heard complaints from so many users that Gaia doesn't have enough items of X, Y, or Z color/style and over the last several months--None of that. Everyone is enjoying the gorgeous items they're creating. People have been able to complete avis that they never thought they'd have the right items for. There has been SOOOO much excitement over each of the releases. Just look at the marketplace! So many of the newer items are beating out items that were considered classics! Why? Because they are very well done and Gaia has put in a lot of effort.

In our economy right now, the poor can't really afford anything. Heck, if you aren't super rich, you probably can't afford much, anyway! Because of that people are only spending their money on things they really, truly want. (Or for profit...) Which means money does not go right back into the economy.

There has been too much inflation already. You can't just reverse that. You just have to adapt. The majority of gold on Gaia is spent on items. Items are what people want. Yet, despite the fact that the gold is VERY unevenly distrubuted, people still only want pure for trades. The inflation caused the value of EVERYTHING to go up. Sinking gold is NOT MAKING PRICES GO DOWN. I have no idea why anyone thought that would happen. People are used to the higher amounts of gold now, why settle for less? Someone, somewhere, will have the money for it. Which means, to stimulate the economy, gold generators are a great option.

For example, let's say you have GCash. You could get 10 Gold Generators or 10 of the current RIG.
The RIG item gives you a crappy payout about 40% of the time. The crappy payout is valued at approximately 1 bil AMP. Do you think you'll be lucky enough to even get 1 bil each out of the 3-5 that you got from your RIG? Uh, no. Not likely. Everyone else is in the same boat as you there. Another 40% of the time, you get items that are worth 3-17 bil. But you won't get that much for them, either, unless you hoard them and hope the price goes back up when the RIG is gone. Which makes it a long-term investment. Another 15% you get items valued between 20 and 99 bil. Those will make a profit, but only if you make sure you have the lowest market price ALWAYS. There will be more on the market than people actually want to buy. This means the value is constantly dropping. That last 5% (meaning you have probably not even a 50% chance of getting one of these since you only bought 10 RIGs) tend to be worth 100+ bil. You will only get the price you want if you are one of the very first posters and someone snagged the item quick. Otherwise, it'll probably drop to 2/3 value if not 1/2. Odds are, unless you did the RIG with the intention of keeping the items, you will be disappointed in your profits.
The Gold Gens piss you off and give you less than a billion occasionally, but when you average the 10 drops, it comes out to approximately 8-10 billion per drop. There's also a small chance that one of those payouts will be 30 bil, 50 bil, or several hundred bil!

Basically, what I'm saying is that the total values of the items from the RIG compared to the Gold Gen is VERY close. But one gives you pure gold that you can then turn around and put directly into the economy. The RIG leaves you with disappointment because the values of the items just keep dropping. Worth it if you get the super rare drop from the RIG, but otherwise, not so much.

You want as much profit as you can so that you can have enough gold to put back into the economy, right? The logical conclusion, then, is that Gold Generators are the quickest way to stimulate the economy. No one has to lose out on profits, Gaia earns real money to pay for the maintenance of the site we all love, and now you've got some gold to buy from the marketplace or maybe even to donate to someone's quest.

No disrespect, but I don't think you quite grasp how an economy works. I'm not going to reply to the entirety of your post since it feels redundant to do so, but I will address the section I highlighted.

Yes, I agree that we're too far-gone to ever return back to Gaia's economy circa 2012. However, ceasing the sale of gold generators coupled with steady gold sinks has absolutely, 100% been proven to not only show a sizable decrease in the price of items, but also stability. Hyperinflation is NEVER a good thing, so it's a bit baffling that you would suggest further inflation as a solution to the inflation. The economy doesn't work that way.

Even just taking a rudimentary look at the situation, it's easy to see the positive effects of real gold sinks coupled with fewer gold generators/lower payouts/periods of time without them. Here's the MP revenue graph, yet again. I bet you can tell where Gaia decided to get a little serious about the economy after the 133TGATE fiasco.



I watch the MP like a hawk, so I'm always well aware of the trends. I watched the MP throughout that entire period of time, and witnessed how drastically prices were dropping on items that were going for absurd amounts of gold.

If you want to shorten the gap between the rich and the poor, I described one way to do it in a previous post. It sounds like you're missing the forest for the trees. If you're not a Gaia Cash user, you WILL be left in the dust by sudden economic shifts trending toward hyperinflation. The non-cash user who once had a comfortable amount to get by in a stable economy, suddenly loses much of the value they had in gold and can no longer purchase any of the newer items. And while the items in their inventory may increase in value, so does everything else barring re-releases. Chances are they're items the user doesn't want to sell, as well.

Maybe you're trying to justify the existence and use of gold generators, maybe you genuinely don't understand. In either case, I hope you ultimately see why hyperinflation is terrible.

I'm gonna have to take the time to respond to this tomorrow, but I do want to point something out.
You keep equating the GCash to money in a reality situation. Gold Generators are NOT the equivalent to printing money. What I am saying is that deflation will take literally years. Gaia would die before then if we don't come up with another solution.

Unless you are saying that buying ANYTHING AT ALL in the cash shop causes inflation and ruins the economy, I have no idea why you think the gold generators do. The only thing wrong with them is if they are giving to big of a payout. What I am telling you is that the Gold Generators are on-par with RIGs. They do not pop out more valuable stuff than the RIGs do. You just feel like it is worse because it is pure gold. Pure gold is what the economy needs. Unless you're gonna create jobs or something for us?

In Gaia's virtual economy, it's exactly the same thing as printing money out of thin air. The value of gold is reduced and what once would, say, allow you to purchase a Dragonslayer, will no longer be sufficient. Those LQIs that were going for 80-100b are then going for 200b or some other higher amount. The user with no means to purchase GC is left with devalued gold.

I'm saying introducing more gold into the economy causes inflation, yes. That's pretty standard economics. Purchasing items or pure item RIGs from the cash shop is helpful to the economy because it introduces more supply. If more gold is being created and introduced into the economy, you get the opposite where prices rise and supply dries up because those who are quick to the punch buy up the supply knowing that their value is going to increase due to the devaluation of gold. Users will pull listings in fear that they're going to end up selling their items at a low price point because of the aforementioned devalued gold. That's what will happen every time.

[nobirdie]

sapphyredragon

I'm gonna have to take the time to respond to this tomorrow, but I do want to point something out.
You keep equating the GCash to money in a reality situation. Gold Generators are NOT the equivalent to printing money. What I am saying is that deflation will take literally years. Gaia would die before then if we don't come up with another solution.

Unless you are saying that buying ANYTHING AT ALL in the cash shop causes inflation and ruins the economy, I have no idea why you think the gold generators do. The only thing wrong with them is if they are giving to big of a payout. What I am telling you is that the Gold Generators are on-par with RIGs. They do not pop out more valuable stuff than the RIGs do. You just feel like it is worse because it is pure gold. Pure gold is what the economy needs. Unless you're gonna create jobs or something for us?

Forgive me for interjecting, but I felt the need to comment on this.

Gold Generators are the exact equivalent to printing money. If you simply "create" more currency, then the worth, the value of that currency goes down. This then means that you need more of that currency in order to buy things because their prices have gone up in response to the devaluation of the currency needed in order to purchase them in the first place.

Items from the Cash Shop that do not generate gold do not cause inflation because they do not add an influx of generated gold into the economy. They add items, items that can be traded for gold or sold in the MP, the latter being where their overall prices are taxed by 5% which is helpful because it removes excess gold from the economy.

Gold generators are a completely different thing - you cannot compare items to them because their purposes and the potential -- if any -- ramifications of their existence are polar opposites of one another.

The economy needs pure gold but it doesn't need to be saturated with it to the point where it has very little value. What it currently needs most of all are consistent gold sinks.

[Valiska Pines]

The Iron Magus

Aradia Dracaena

The Iron Magus

Squirrelette

i spent 650bil on an 100pk, assuming they were the same so i would make back everything plus profit as i did in the past with them.... no

im ********
i was over a tril
and now im at 687bil
and honestly if im not over 1tril i dont even feel like being on here... its depressing
if i would have had a warning i wouldnt have got them


******** you again Gaia.

rofl AHAHAHAHAHA
Hashtag first world problems
Holy CRAP you sound like a spoiled little rich girl. lol

I've never even had a trillion in pure... I consider myself lucky if I'm in the tens of billions.
But by all means, if you "don't even feel like being on here"... I will gladly take that meager 687 bil off your hands. emotion_awesome

...you sound nice.

Look, losing a third of your gold isn't fun for anyone, although I must that I don't get buying and selling gold gens for GOLD. Why would you do that? but that's what happened here. Lesson learned, if you buy them, don't buy or open them when they are on sale. No need to be rude, this person didn't buy it from the cash shop so the inflation was already gonna happen no matter who opened it.

You sound like one of those people who thinks being critical of someone's prices and begging for ABP when they're already the lowest in the market is a good way to get someone to do you a favour and lower it.

Yeah, laughing at the misfortunes of others is never exactly a nice move. I couldn't help it... it was like listening to someone whine about how they crashed their Lamborghini, and were "stuck" driving the Lexus...

Though, all the projection about the MP begging strikes me as a bit odd. lol

Vend a lot?

Yup. I'm really over people complaining about how much stuff costs because I joined last summer and I never got to experience this paradisiacal era when everything was cheap. I believe it happened and everything, but I was never part of it.

Anyhow, yeah, that tone of bitter may well be projection, but people who do that crap often have that exact tone of bitter themselves. Good on you if you're not That Person though!

When people buy those things with Gaia Cash it is kind of funny when they're nerfed (except when it's you lol) but I don't understand laughing at someone who bought them with GOLD. When you buy them with cash you're essentially (I hope) spending money you don't really need, but when you buy them with gold...you've gotta be desperate for more gold to buy goldgens with gold.

[sonata of sorrow]

sapphyredragon

I'm gonna have to take the time to respond to this tomorrow, but I do want to point something out.
You keep equating the GCash to money in a reality situation. Gold Generators are NOT the equivalent to printing money. What I am saying is that deflation will take literally years. Gaia would die before then if we don't come up with another solution.

Unless you are saying that buying ANYTHING AT ALL in the cash shop causes inflation and ruins the economy, I have no idea why you think the gold generators do. The only thing wrong with them is if they are giving to big of a payout. What I am telling you is that the Gold Generators are on-par with RIGs. They do not pop out more valuable stuff than the RIGs do. You just feel like it is worse because it is pure gold. Pure gold is what the economy needs. Unless you're gonna create jobs or something for us?

From your posts it's apparent you have minimal understanding how economies actually work. Yes gold generators are the equivalent of a country printing money. Pure gold is exactly what the economy needs to get rid of. Every time a gold generator is opened it indirectly increases the cost of everything. Every time someone that isn't you opens a gold generator, your gold is suddenly worth less.

Let's say there's a market where the group of users have $100 between them, and they sell wares to each other for $1. Suddenly the government gives $100 dollars to five users, and it gets distributed among the group as they trade wares and suddenly everyone's selling their wares for $6. More gold in a system, just raises the price of everything (ignoring items that have infinite supply and set values [such as gold shop items]).

[sapphyredragon]

I'm not even sure I want to address individuals anymore. Apparently, it doesn't matter what I say, people are unhappy and they want to complain.

Most of you assume Gaia is an economy that runs off of gold. That is way too much of a simplification. Money is the lifeblood of Gaia. Yes, real money. When you get Gaia gold without having to spend any real money, that's only because someone else was willing to pay real money. The more money that goes into Gaia, the more the economy is stimulated and it trickles down to the rest of the Gaians. Those who spend $$ have ALWAYS been on top. Really, this inflation was inevitable, just like in most economies. The population has increased, the average age of Gaians has increased, it only makes sense that more $$ is going into Gaia. This, of course, leaves a disparity between people who buy cash and those who don't.

What you guys want is for Gaia to eliminate Gold Generators, but keep putting out items. You seem to think that will fix everything. What you don't understand is that it can't. As long as long as the marketplace is in the hands of the people, it will not easily deflate. What you'll end up with is less on the market at comparable prices to where they are now. When prices drop it is simply because someone is trying to sell something for cheaper than someone else. That is literally the only reason people lower their prices. The people with the gold will have the most power if you try to deflate the economy this way. That is dangerous and will quickly make people very unhappy. You will have a lot of unhappy Gaians leaving. And do you think they're gonna share their halos and gold before they drop out? Probably not. Hey, they might decide to come back, after all.

Honestly, the best way to increase the value of the gold is to decrease the value of the items. I mean, come on! That is SO obvious. If they would release a certain percentage more of the rare items, they would deflate. Duh.