The Abortion Debate

[princess_colex]

Darkwolf618

princess_colex

NO!R MAN

Draco Dio Lestat

miyo_esparanza

Draco Dio Lestat

fetus=/= alive
fetus=/= harmful painful virus on human body
abortion= helpful operation to remove cancerous growth

nuff said

Uh, the fetus IS alive. Sorry, try again though.

can it exist on its own???
no
so its not alive

besides
abortions are good for families

Retards cant live on their own.
Are they alive? I think so.

"Retards" if that's your preferred word choice have bodily integrity. Their bodies can survive in the environment outside of the mother's womb. A fetus does not have bodily integrity. It cannot survive outside the mother's womb even if it were given food and water. It has not developed the bodily processes to survive.

Fetus = / = "retard"

He is only saying that bodily integrity does not mean something is alive or not alive. Many of your body cells cannot survive outside of your body, but they are still alive.

You're right fetii are alive. My bad

[WitheringRoseOfDecay]

NO!R MAN

Draco Dio Lestat

miyo_esparanza

Draco Dio Lestat

fetus=/= alive
fetus=/= harmful painful virus on human body
abortion= helpful operation to remove cancerous growth

nuff said

Uh, the fetus IS alive. Sorry, try again though.

can it exist on its own???
no
so its not alive

besides
abortions are good for families

Retards cant live on their own.
Are they alive? I think so.

how dare you use that word! some mentally handicapped people CAN live on their own. they can be taught to be self sufficiant. a*****e.

[RedRoseSpiral]

I just realized this thread needed a rise so I found this. The link takes you to an article about a bill in Florida that will make it so a woman seeking an abortion must get an ultrasound before the abortion could take place. Below is an excerpt.

Quote:

Under the bill, a woman would be required to pay for the ultrasound and view the results unless she signs a written waiver, Miami Herald reports (Klas, Miami Herald, 4/9). The measure provides exceptions to the ultrasound requirement in cases of rape, incest, domestic violence, human trafficking or if the doctor diagnoses the woman with a "condition that, on the basis of a physician's good faith clinical judgment, would create a serious risk of substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function if the woman delayed terminating her pregnancy" (SB 2400 bill text, 4/9).

The bolded is what pisses me off. Not only would the ultrasound be mandatory if this bill goes into affect, but the woman would have to pay for it out of her pocket. This could really hurt the wallets of some women who are seeking abortions. Not only are they paying for the abortion but they have to pay for a useless ultrasound. There is no medical reason to make a woman have an ultrasound before having an abortion. All it is is a guilt tactic Pro-Lifers are using to try to stop woman from aborting a pregnancy.

[Debonair Silver Dragonair]

RedRoseSpiral

I just realized this thread needed a rise so I found this. The link takes you to an article about a bill in Florida that will make it so a woman seeking an abortion must get an ultrasound before the abortion could take place. Below is an excerpt.

Quote:

Under the bill, a woman would be required to pay for the ultrasound and view the results unless she signs a written waiver, Miami Herald reports (Klas, Miami Herald, 4/9). The measure provides exceptions to the ultrasound requirement in cases of rape, incest, domestic violence, human trafficking or if the doctor diagnoses the woman with a "condition that, on the basis of a physician's good faith clinical judgment, would create a serious risk of substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function if the woman delayed terminating her pregnancy" (SB 2400 bill text, 4/9).

The bolded is what pisses me off. Not only would the ultrasound be mandatory if this bill goes into affect, but the woman would have to pay for it out of her pocket. This could really hurt the wallets of some women who are seeking abortions. Not only are they paying for the abortion but they have to pay for a useless ultrasound. There is no medical reason to make a woman have an ultrasound before having an abortion. All it is is a guilt tactic Pro-Lifers are using to try to stop woman from aborting a pregnancy.

Hmm. What would this written waiver say?

I can't find any information about it.

[RedRoseSpiral]

Debonair Silver Dragonair

Hmm. What would this written waiver say?

I can't find any information about it.

I'm not sure I haven't found anything on it either. My guess would be that it would only waive seeing the results, but would make the woman still go through with the ultrasound.

[Debonair Silver Dragonair]

RedRoseSpiral

Debonair Silver Dragonair

Hmm. What would this written waiver say?

I can't find any information about it.

I'm not sure I haven't found anything on it either. My guess would be that it would only waive seeing the results, but would make the woman still go through with the ultrasound.

Well, they should perform an ultrasound as a part of the procedure, anyway, surely? It would be irresponsible for them not to check what stage of gestation it's at, and that's there's only one, etc. Well, that's what I thought, anyway. And that the cost of an ultrasound would be included in the cost of the abortion.

[RedRoseSpiral]

Debonair Silver Dragonair

RedRoseSpiral

Debonair Silver Dragonair

Hmm. What would this written waiver say?

I can't find any information about it.

I'm not sure I haven't found anything on it either. My guess would be that it would only waive seeing the results, but would make the woman still go through with the ultrasound.

Well, they should perform an ultrasound as a part of the procedure, anyway, surely? It would be irresponsible for them not to check what stage of gestation it's at, and that's there's only one, etc. Well, that's what I thought, anyway. And that the cost of an ultrasound would be included in the cost of the abortion.

Nope, one does not need an ultrasound for a first trimester abortion since most of those are not surgical but done by taking a pill or series of pills. I don't even think an ultrasound needs to be done for an abortion taking place at any other time either. This bill is pretty much emotional black mail. They're doing the whole "luk at ur baybayiezzz don' aboshuns dem!!1" type thing.

[Debonair Silver Dragonair]

RedRoseSpiral

Debonair Silver Dragonair

RedRoseSpiral

Debonair Silver Dragonair

Hmm. What would this written waiver say?

I can't find any information about it.

I'm not sure I haven't found anything on it either. My guess would be that it would only waive seeing the results, but would make the woman still go through with the ultrasound.

Well, they should perform an ultrasound as a part of the procedure, anyway, surely? It would be irresponsible for them not to check what stage of gestation it's at, and that's there's only one, etc. Well, that's what I thought, anyway. And that the cost of an ultrasound would be included in the cost of the abortion.

Nope, one does not need an ultrasound for a first trimester abortion since most of those are not surgical but done by taking a pill or series of pills. I don't even think an ultrasound needs to be done for an abortion taking place at any other time either. This bill is pretty much emotional black mail. They're doing the whole "luk at ur baybayiezzz don' aboshuns dem!!1" type thing.

How will they be sure what stage of pregnancy she's in, without performing an ultrasound?

[RedRoseSpiral]

Debonair Silver Dragonair

RedRoseSpiral

Debonair Silver Dragonair

RedRoseSpiral

Debonair Silver Dragonair

Hmm. What would this written waiver say?

I can't find any information about it.

I'm not sure I haven't found anything on it either. My guess would be that it would only waive seeing the results, but would make the woman still go through with the ultrasound.

Well, they should perform an ultrasound as a part of the procedure, anyway, surely? It would be irresponsible for them not to check what stage of gestation it's at, and that's there's only one, etc. Well, that's what I thought, anyway. And that the cost of an ultrasound would be included in the cost of the abortion.

Nope, one does not need an ultrasound for a first trimester abortion since most of those are not surgical but done by taking a pill or series of pills. I don't even think an ultrasound needs to be done for an abortion taking place at any other time either. This bill is pretty much emotional black mail. They're doing the whole "luk at ur baybayiezzz don' aboshuns dem!!1" type thing.

How will they be sure what stage of pregnancy she's in, without performing an ultrasound?

Not really sure. I'd go do some research on it, but I'm in the middle of homework. I'll do it later. I gotta figure out why my formula isn't turning out right.

[Debonair Silver Dragonair]

RedRoseSpiral

Debonair Silver Dragonair

RedRoseSpiral

Debonair Silver Dragonair

RedRoseSpiral

Debonair Silver Dragonair

Hmm. What would this written waiver say?

I can't find any information about it.

I'm not sure I haven't found anything on it either. My guess would be that it would only waive seeing the results, but would make the woman still go through with the ultrasound.

Well, they should perform an ultrasound as a part of the procedure, anyway, surely? It would be irresponsible for them not to check what stage of gestation it's at, and that's there's only one, etc. Well, that's what I thought, anyway. And that the cost of an ultrasound would be included in the cost of the abortion.

Nope, one does not need an ultrasound for a first trimester abortion since most of those are not surgical but done by taking a pill or series of pills. I don't even think an ultrasound needs to be done for an abortion taking place at any other time either. This bill is pretty much emotional black mail. They're doing the whole "luk at ur baybayiezzz don' aboshuns dem!!1" type thing.

How will they be sure what stage of pregnancy she's in, without performing an ultrasound?

Not really sure. I'd go do some research on it, but I'm in the middle of homework. I'll do it later. I gotta figure out why my formula isn't turning out right.

Good luck with that. sweatdrop

[Aino Ailill]

According to this site, Mifepristone and Mifeprex abortions (medical abortions) would require an ultrasound as one of the things they chack for to ensure that you are eligible for the abortion is ectopic pregnancies.

It seems to me that for the surgical procedures, this would be a concern as well and they would surely check thus making an ultra-sound necessary?

[Lady-of-Slaughter]

Aino Ailill

According to this site, Mifepristone and Mifeprex abortions (medical abortions) would require an ultrasound as one of the things they chack for to ensure that you are eligible for the abortion is ectopic pregnancies.

It seems to me that for the surgical procedures, this would be a concern as well and they would surely check thus making an ultra-sound necessary?

This would be true, but as stated above in the document quoted by RedRoseSpiral the woman would also be required to VIEW the ultrasound, which as far as I know is not required at this time. If I am wrong, please do correct me. However, in requiring that a woman view the ultrasound this document clearly intends to indirectly persuade the woman to cancel her abortion in the hopes that by seeing the fetus she will be emotionally swayed. I, as you may have gathered thus far, believe this to be quite stupid, wasteful, and damn near cruel. We aren't forced to watch the cows go to slaughter before we eat them, and we should not be forced to confront the fetus before we abort it. It has much less mental capacity than a cow, and yet we are supposed to feel sorry for it on a scale we never would for many of the animals we consume. I could go on and draw out this comparison further, but I believe my point is made.

[jewel of darkness]

I am kinda both ways, depending on the situtaion. If the person was willing to have se*, then it is her fault and she should have the baby. If the person was, like, raped, they have the right to abortion. neutral

[Jazzberry]

Aino Ailill

According to this site, Mifepristone and Mifeprex abortions (medical abortions) would require an ultrasound as one of the things they chack for to ensure that you are eligible for the abortion is ectopic pregnancies.

It seems to me that for the surgical procedures, this would be a concern as well and they would surely check thus making an ultra-sound necessary?

Ultrasounds are already used for probably every abortion.
It's like Lady-of-Slaughter said--these laws are aimed at convincing women to change their minds. I'm largely against it, because I don't see why a woman should have to see it if she doesn't want to. But part of me also thinks that even if this were passed, it would do little to nothing except make women more aware of what practically indiscernable ultrasound images look like. ;D This would likely only make a real, tangible difference in later-term abortions, where ultrasound images actually fit the "OMG BABY" view of a developing embryo or fetus.
Providing this isn't 3-D imaging, which just looks creepy.