The Abortion Debate

[Raina Luxe]

read this please

and this thank you

[Lapinporokoira]

Barely_evil

read this please

and this thank you

All those links prove is that women can suffer depression after an abortion it does not state all will suffer. The option SHOULD remain open for abortion and more effort and money put into the after-care.
I do not wish to be denied just because a percentage have trouble dealing.

[The Blue Blue]

Barely_evil

read this please

and this thank you

O rly?

Read this

This

and anything else on the subject of depression and adoption, which is actually both sides of the fence thanks to PAD (post-adoption depression) which afflicts the adoptive parents.


Now that we know that adoption is psychologically harmful to, what alternatives do you offer?

[CB_Young]

Barely_evil

read this please

and this thank you

First off, I suppose it should be pointed out that those studies show that there is correlation, and we all know that correlation does not equal causation. They very well might have shown that there is a relationship (although I would like to see the actual studies to be sure, Im really skeptical about any research methods) They have not shown that it is non spurious.

Secondly, do you know what else can cause depression? Moving. Childbirth. Breaking up with a significant other. Unwanted pregnancy that does not end in abortion. Genetics. Not enough Sunlight.
Should all of these things be made illegal?

[Veolin]

Diamonti Fairy

abortions to me is like murder, just imagine the life a baby could of had if it wouldn't of been aborted

Just to point out something I thought about, If you were going to say "just imagine the life this baby would have had" couldnt you also argue "just imagine what life that unfertalized egg could have had"? And yet no one cries when I flush an unfertalized egg down the toilet once a month..

[Veolin]

Barely_evil

read this please

and this thank you

No one (at least from what Ive read) has argued the fact that some women have mintal issues after aborting. Where as I have noticed people simply stating that women who actually give birth may expecrience mintal issues as well. (Post partum depression being a common one).

So suppose for a second you actually stop thinking you have to prove a point that no one is disputing and actually consider both sides of the spectrum before posting something pointless. Wouldnt that be so much more bennificial to the discussion?

[The Great Lina Inverse]

Veolin

Diamonti Fairy

abortions to me is like murder, just imagine the life a baby could of had if it wouldn't of been aborted

Just to point out something I thought about, If you were going to say "just imagine the life this baby would have had" couldnt you also argue "just imagine what life that unfertalized egg could have had"? And yet no one cries when I flush an unfertalized egg down the toilet once a month..

Worse yet is the blatant disregard of the actual legal definition of the term 'murder', not to mention the failure to understand that a baby is a born individual, and that abortions do not occur to already born 'babies'.

Furthermore, the debate of potential is one of epic failure. The Pro-Life preach on and on about how the potential of the fetus should grant it immediate rights and special rights to override the natural rights given to women.

Now, turn that table 'round there. I'm only 24. But, I'm a potential senior citizen. Why don't we have people fighting for my right to have access to social security? Well, damn, its because I'm NOT a senior citizen. Since I'm not, I don't get the rights. Now, turn the table back 'round again. A fetus is not a person, therefore it does not get right nor special rights to override the rights of the woman, just because it has potential.

[Rose_Keno]

I am mother of a 2 year old. I believe in pro-choice all the way but only before a fetus is 24 weeks.

[The Great Lina Inverse]

Rose_Keno

I am mother of a 2 year old. I believe in pro-choice all the way but only before a fetus is 24 weeks.

What about women whose fetus dies after 24 weeks?

What about the women who don't realize they're pregnant until after 24 weeks? (It does happen, but is a rarity)

What about women who have multiples and the only way to save some of the fetii is to abort one?

You are not Pro-Choice "all the way". You are Pro-Choice to a point. If you were Pro-Choice "all the way", you'd say women can get abortions at any time for any circumstance and situation. That nobody can put stipulations on her access to abortions.

[Veolin]

The Great Lina Inverse

Veolin

Diamonti Fairy

abortions to me is like murder, just imagine the life a baby could of had if it wouldn't of been aborted

Just to point out something I thought about, If you were going to say "just imagine the life this baby would have had" couldnt you also argue "just imagine what life that unfertalized egg could have had"? And yet no one cries when I flush an unfertalized egg down the toilet once a month..

Worse yet is the blatant disregard of the actual legal definition of the term 'murder', not to mention the failure to understand that a baby is a born individual, and that abortions do not occur to already born 'babies'.

Furthermore, the debate of potential is one of epic failure. The Pro-Life preach on and on about how the potential of the fetus should grant it immediate rights and special rights to override the natural rights given to women.

Now, turn that table 'round there. I'm only 24. But, I'm a potential senior citizen. Why don't we have people fighting for my right to have access to social security? Well, damn, its because I'm NOT a senior citizen. Since I'm not, I don't get the rights. Now, turn the table back 'round again. A fetus is not a person, therefore it does not get right nor special rights to override the rights of the woman, just because it has potential.

Great point. And I have to completely agree on the argument of potential. Just as there is enough potential for someone to become something great, there is also the potention to become a mass murder or something worse.

And you make an interesting point on the subject in terms of social security. If we can argue that potential alone is enough of a reason to argue in the sake of the fetus, why are we not useing that same argument of potential to fight for things that we are more then likely going to be denied? (Since social security isnt going to be around much longer and all that jazz)

[Heart of the Fallen Angel]

Barely_evil

read this please

and this thank you

Your point? Both links you provided are known for almost fundamental conservative views, including a strong bias towards Pro-Life. If you want to provide a source in a debate, either provide one from an unbiased source, or provide a source from a biased source that is in direct conflict with your stance, but proves your point anyways. Posting a source that is biased towards your stance is about as good in a debate as posting propaganda.

[The Great Lina Inverse]

Veolin

The Great Lina Inverse

Veolin

Diamonti Fairy

abortions to me is like murder, just imagine the life a baby could of had if it wouldn't of been aborted

Just to point out something I thought about, If you were going to say "just imagine the life this baby would have had" couldnt you also argue "just imagine what life that unfertalized egg could have had"? And yet no one cries when I flush an unfertalized egg down the toilet once a month..

Worse yet is the blatant disregard of the actual legal definition of the term 'murder', not to mention the failure to understand that a baby is a born individual, and that abortions do not occur to already born 'babies'.

Furthermore, the debate of potential is one of epic failure. The Pro-Life preach on and on about how the potential of the fetus should grant it immediate rights and special rights to override the natural rights given to women.

Now, turn that table 'round there. I'm only 24. But, I'm a potential senior citizen. Why don't we have people fighting for my right to have access to social security? Well, damn, its because I'm NOT a senior citizen. Since I'm not, I don't get the rights. Now, turn the table back 'round again. A fetus is not a person, therefore it does not get right nor special rights to override the rights of the woman, just because it has potential.

Great point. And I have to completely agree on the argument of potential. Just as there is enough potential for someone to become something great, there is also the potention to become a mass murder or something worse.

And you make an interesting point on the subject in terms of social security. If we can argue that potential alone is enough of a reason to argue in the sake of the fetus, why are we not useing that same argument of potential to fight for things that we are more then likely going to be denied? (Since social security isnt going to be around much longer and all that jazz)

Exactly!
I have the potential to be an actress, I want my million-dollar movie script!
I have the potential to be a lawer, gimme the OJ case!
I have the potential to be a serial killer, gimme my MO.

What I think the issue with potentiality is that it doesn't hold any weight anywhere. Its obvious in everyday life, its obvious in economics, its obvious in law. Just because you can be something doesn't mean you will be or should be. But it a popular tool by the Pro-Life camp because they don't have much else to go on except the emotional rollercoasters. And pulling the "It has the potential to cure cancer!" is an emotional ploy that acts as a red herring to the actual topic. A topic that doesn't have any consideration for the potential of the fetii, but relies soley on the consideration of the woman and her rights over her reproductive system.

[Veolin]

The Great Lina Inverse

Rose_Keno

I am mother of a 2 year old. I believe in pro-choice all the way but only before a fetus is 24 weeks.

What about women whose fetus dies after 24 weeks?

What about the women who don't realize they're pregnant until after 24 weeks? (It does happen, but is a rarity)

What about women who have multiples and the only way to save some of the fetii is to abort one?

You are not Pro-Choice "all the way". You are Pro-Choice to a point. If you were Pro-Choice "all the way", you'd say women can get abortions at any time for any circumstance and situation. That nobody can put stipulations on her access to abortions.

Unfortunitely, in cases outside of medical situations, it is illegal to abort in the US after 14 weeks. So many pro-choice people dont argue points beyond the first trimester or even try to consider it an issue. (Which is funny as we can accept that in some circumstances abortion is illegal, but most pro-lifers refuse to understand why in some circumstances, abortion should be legal. Kind of ironic.)

Not realizing your pregnent after five months? Thats over half way thorough the pregnency. I seriously hope that isnt common. o.o

I have to agree that its not pro-choice "all the way" Being pro-choice and going as far to say one is completely pro choice are two different things. Primarily because being completely pro-choice would insist that for any reason and at any time what so ever you stand beside someone's right to have an abortion. By discluding abortion after 24 weeks, you're not exactly doing that.

[Veolin]

The Great Lina Inverse

Veolin

The Great Lina Inverse

Veolin

Diamonti Fairy

abortions to me is like murder, just imagine the life a baby could of had if it wouldn't of been aborted

Just to point out something I thought about, If you were going to say "just imagine the life this baby would have had" couldnt you also argue "just imagine what life that unfertalized egg could have had"? And yet no one cries when I flush an unfertalized egg down the toilet once a month..

Worse yet is the blatant disregard of the actual legal definition of the term 'murder', not to mention the failure to understand that a baby is a born individual, and that abortions do not occur to already born 'babies'.

Furthermore, the debate of potential is one of epic failure. The Pro-Life preach on and on about how the potential of the fetus should grant it immediate rights and special rights to override the natural rights given to women.

Now, turn that table 'round there. I'm only 24. But, I'm a potential senior citizen. Why don't we have people fighting for my right to have access to social security? Well, damn, its because I'm NOT a senior citizen. Since I'm not, I don't get the rights. Now, turn the table back 'round again. A fetus is not a person, therefore it does not get right nor special rights to override the rights of the woman, just because it has potential.

Great point. And I have to completely agree on the argument of potential. Just as there is enough potential for someone to become something great, there is also the potention to become a mass murder or something worse.

And you make an interesting point on the subject in terms of social security. If we can argue that potential alone is enough of a reason to argue in the sake of the fetus, why are we not useing that same argument of potential to fight for things that we are more then likely going to be denied? (Since social security isnt going to be around much longer and all that jazz)

Exactly!
I have the potential to be an actress, I want my million-dollar movie script!
I have the potential to be a lawer, gimme the OJ case!
I have the potential to be a serial killer, gimme my MO.

What I think the issue with potentiality is that it doesn't hold any weight anywhere. Its obvious in everyday life, its obvious in economics, its obvious in law. Just because you can be something doesn't mean you will be or should be. But it a popular tool by the Pro-Life camp because they don't have much else to go on except the emotional rollercoasters. And pulling the "It has the potential to cure cancer!" is an emotional ploy that acts as a red herring to the actual topic. A topic that doesn't have any consideration for the potential of the fetii, but relies soley on the consideration of the woman and her rights over her reproductive system.

As you said it's all an emotional ploy and a play on guilt to tug at peoples heart strings so that they say "Oh woe is me! My fetus could have become a famous scientist and saved lives despite the fact that my curent and future financial situation will more then likely guarentee that such will never happen! Oh woe!"

[The Great Lina Inverse]

Hear hear, Veolin!

Better, I love to remind them that such greatness happens far and inbetween horrible, horrible things. In fact, depending on your view of man, there are more bad people than good, and even more average, everyday people than both good and bad. The point is, which they tend to forget, is that odds are that fetus they worked so hard to save and protect will just be an everyday Joe, paying the bills and not really give back to soceity like they think it will.

Then I like to whip out my "Y'know, Pro-Lifers are why Adolf Hitler was born. His momma wanted an abortion, but she was forced to carry." card. They LOVE that one.