The Abortion Debate

[Incendia Intus Fidelis]

Tsukasalink

hmmm without reading 6k pages of full debate posts....

But its such stimulating reading! xd

[Incendia Intus Fidelis]

PsuedoZaid

-whistles-

Man have I got quite the opposition. xD

I promise your life will not be boring if you post on the pro life side here. Just ask BlairVoyant rofl

[PsuedoZaid]

Oh I'm sure. This place is certainly interesting. xD

[pidgezero_one]

I wish I had classes with these sort of debates.

[PsuedoZaid]

You guys could write books with all this. xD

Books and books and books.

[_C r y s t a l_RB]

MipsyKitten

I don't enjoy dumbing down my answers, so listen up. First, I can't prove her right with all the statistics in the world, due to the fact that no one would know what the USA would be like with universal healthcare. You can make all the assupmtions you want, but no one can be 100% sure. I provided evidence as to why I thought her 'theory' was unlikely, because women said they often aborted due to not being able to afford to raise a child.

Raising a child isn't just having to deal with medical costs. What good is universal healthcare if you can't afford rent, food, or clothing? Cost of raising a child is the cost of everything for 18+ years, as well as having everything you as a parent needs to do the job. How the hell does the absence of the $3000 medical bill suddenly make someone more able to do that?

As I said, if the us had universal healthcare, there probably won't be a significant decrease in abortions, unless someone changed the welfare systems aswell.

Mipsy I respect you as a debator which is why I must point out that I never stated universal health care would for sure lower abortion rates in US. I was saying that perhaps it might. I think it's rather silly that you wasted all that time debating against my statement when you were merely going against a statement I never made. You seemed to have twisted my words around. Of course, I take less offense to a simple misunderstanding than someone blatantly putting words into my mouth, *cough*Kata*cough* but it still bothers me.

I'm going to repost my statement, highlighting some key words to help simplify the sentence for better understanding and comprehension, and allow you an Kata to rethink what you read and responded to.

Perhaps if universal health care where available in the U.S. we'd have less women feeling the need to abort, because they'll actually be able to afford the medical expenses of being pregnant, and giving birth.

Now. Did I state ANYWHERE that universal health care in the US would DEFINITELY reduce abortion rates? Did I EVER say it would DEFINITELY even remotely reduce the rates enough for the numbers to be significant? I didn't, because I don't know the answer. Such a situation would actually have to take place in order for me to make such claims. From now on I'm going to put my little theories and thoughts into actual thought bubbles to make things more clear.

Thank you Incendia for having my back, but let's just drop this argument now, because it's really silly to argue about a misunderstanding like this.

[Incendia Intus Fidelis]

Crystal E-B

Thank you Incendia for having my back, but let's just drop this argument now, because it's really silly to argue about a misunderstanding like this.

I'll leave it alone if they leave it alone. 3nodding

[Naid Sanders]

my mother had abortion. she had to do it because her beby died inside her because of measles. she was stubborn about it at first, it nearly killed her. on the other side, many pro abortionist fail to consider that many pregannt women feel anxiety (due to the changes taht heppen in their body) when they are pregnant, and that often make them want to have abortion. if abortion were to be available to ANYONE WHO WANTS IT, BEFORE THEY WERE BORN, there is a VERY BIG CHANCE they would not be alive today to push their ideals.

[Willypeet]

Naid Sanders

my mother had abortion. she had to do it because her beby died inside her because of measles. she was stubborn about it at first, it nearly killed her. on the other side, many pro abortionist fail to consider that many pregannt women feel anxiety (due to the changes taht heppen in their body) when they are pregnant, and that often make them want to have abortion. if abortion were to be available to ANYONE WHO WANTS IT, BEFORE THEY WERE BORN, there is a VERY BIG CHANCE they would not be alive today to push their ideals.

Removal of a fetus who died in-utero and was not fully miscarried is not abortion. please research these things before you spread misinformation.

Her anxiety and sadness over the situation is very normal for someone in her situation - it was a wanted pregnancy that sadly miscarried before birth. This is why pro-choice is such a very important stance to take - so each woman can make the choice that is right for her.

I'm not sure who you're talking to in regards to 'pro abortionists' - i havent seen anyone suggest in this thread that people should be forced to abort if they dont desire to.

I also find your insinuation that pregnant women who desire an abortion arent of sound mind to make such a choice to be EXTREMELY insulting. Do you have any sources for your claim, or are you just making assumptions? Because that is a VERY broad claim to be making without any proof.

I felt very relieved and sound in my decision to abort. If I ever found myself in the situation again in the near future, I would feel sound about it again. I dont regret it one bit. It was the right choice for me.

And to be quite frank, had it been the right choice for my mother when she became pregnant with me, then I hope she would have made the choice that was best for her. I never would have existed to know or care, and I love my mother enough to be comfortable with the concept of my own nonexistance so that she could become a mother when she was *ready*, not when she was forced.

And abortion is currently available to anyone who wants it electively up to 16 weeks or so, and has been since the early 70s. And turns out, there are still MILLIONS of people who support the pro choice ideals.

I was born in 1984, 11 years after abortion became legal, and despite your lofty claims, I am here, and I am pro choice..oh, and my mom? She's pro-choice too. And so are millions of others. There is a large difference between a wanted pregnancy and an unwanted one. Just because someone supports the CHOICE to abort doesnt mean they think every pregnancy should be aborted, nor does it even mean they would ever abort themselves. rolleyes

[Aino Ailill]

pidgezero_one

I wish I had classes with these sort of debates.

It would make class interesting would it not? Unfortunately, I am not nearly so eloquent when expected to speak orally and so I'd likely just be the equivalent of a 'lurker'. It would still be interesting none-the-less.

[DemonessOfSorrow]

Naid Sanders

my mother had abortion. she had to do it because her beby died inside her because of measles. she was stubborn about it at first, it nearly killed her. on the other side, many pro abortionist fail to consider that many pregannt women feel anxiety (due to the changes taht heppen in their body) when they are pregnant, and that often make them want to have abortion. if abortion were to be available to ANYONE WHO WANTS IT, BEFORE THEY WERE BORN, there is a VERY BIG CHANCE they would not be alive today to push their ideals.

i was born in 85. LONG after abortion was legalized. my mom CHOSE to have me. my aunt became sterile from a botched procedure in the 70's. had she gotten a safe and legal abortion, i think she would have went on to have kids, and she wouldn't be the junkie she is today. therefore your theory is bullshit. my good friend got pregnant three times, miscarried twice and has a son who's over a year old. NONE of those times pregnant did she EVER consider an abortion. my other friend had an abortion in high school. she's perfectly fine and she did it because she didn't want to throw away her future. get your facts straight before you spew such dumb-assery

[Fran Salaska]

Naid Sanders

My mother had an abortion. She had to do it because her baby died inside her because of measles. She was stubborn about it at first, it nearly killed her. On the other side, many pro-abortionists fail to consider that many pregnant women feel anxiety (due to the changes that happen in their body) when they are pregnant, and that often make them wants to have an abortion. If abortion were to be available to ANYONE WHO WANTS IT, BEFORE THEY WERE BORN, there is a VERY BIG CHANCE they would not be alive today to push their ideals.

(Has tried to make it readable.)

I think your main problem is the mistaken belief that everyone who is pro-choice must have had an abortion, or will have an abortion at some point in their lives. Whilst this is actually true or most women, regardless of their feelings about abortion (this does take into account medically necessary abortions too, I think) will have one at some point. Some pro-life women get pregnant accidentally and their personal experience changes their minds. Some pro-choice women change their minds upon becoming pregnant, and others regret their abortions and try to stop everyone from doing it. Some pro-life women abort and remain pro-life (the most hypocritical group IMO).

Also, isn't the belief that abortion should be outlawed pushing ideals? Abortion hurts very, very few born people - less than illegal abortion. I'm pro-choice. I don't think I'd get an abortion unless it was medically necessary or I had way too many kids already and felt unable to care for another. That's me. Some women would abort any pregnancy and some women would keep every pregnancy. And guess what? They can all be pro-choice.

[The Blue Blue]

Naid Sanders

my mother had abortion. she had to do it because her beby died inside her because of measles. she was stubborn about it at first, it nearly killed her. on the other side, many pro abortionist fail to consider that many pregannt women feel anxiety (due to the changes taht heppen in their body) when they are pregnant, and that often make them want to have abortion. if abortion were to be available to ANYONE WHO WANTS IT, BEFORE THEY WERE BORN, there is a VERY BIG CHANCE they would not be alive today to push their ideals.

lawl. You are using slippery slope logic. Let me counter your work of dystopia fiction with some actual facts.

Fact 1) Abortion was an option when my mother was pregnant with me.
Fact 2) I was born.
Fact 3) My mother had actually planned to have more than just one child.
Fact 4) My mother is pro-choice.

See what I did there? I pointed out that pro-choicers aren't all baby hating people who plan to never ever have children. Not only that, I proved that in a world where abortion remains an option not everyone will take it.

Because of this I submit to you that Abortion will in fact not be the end of our species. Your argument is rebuked.