The Abortion Debate

[JANUX 99]

Natas Ferret

DiGital Lucifer

This is how fetii have gained legal personhood.

Personhood or just adding crimes to the books? Reading over the UBVOVA says nothing about granting personhood, only that punishment is being better dealt to those who cause a pregnant woman to lose her pregnancy, without her consent. (i.e. abortion does not fit within the UBVOVA)

I have yet to see anything, along the wording of the UBVOVA that mentions "personhood."

[EDIT]

I don't know what UBVOVA is, but I don't see how personhood isn't granted through criminalization on the murder level; especially when specifically refered to as such.
Also.. It's not an issue of consent; it's an issue of violence against a mother that causes the death of the fetus.
Consent or not.

[divineseraph]

caela_rue

divineseraph

it's not a random malignancy, the causes are known and consentual.

Unless conception happens as a byproduct of rape. Then it's anything but consentual.

And once more, consenting to sex does not mean consent to pregnancy. When I have sex with my boyfriend, I have it with him as a pair-bonding ritual to strengthen our relationship, not for reproduction.

Quote:

furthermore, even then she wouldn't be killing the child of neccesity, but for convenience.

Prove how ending a pregnancy for reasons of physical/mental health or financial trouble is for "convenience".

1-transitive property of congruence?
2-because, it's not going to kill her.

[Reinna Astarel]

divineseraph

is an STD a child? will it ever be a child? wrong.

And that has...wow, absolutely nothing to do with my post at hand.

I was talking about how a child isn't any more a choice than a STD was. If you didn't understand that I was not saying a STD was a child, or vice versa, you truly have a poor grasp of the english language.

[Emiri Insane]

divineseraph

caela_rue

divineseraph

it's not a random malignancy, the causes are known and consentual.

Unless conception happens as a byproduct of rape. Then it's anything but consentual.

And once more, consenting to sex does not mean consent to pregnancy. When I have sex with my boyfriend, I have it with him as a pair-bonding ritual to strengthen our relationship, not for reproduction.

Quote:

furthermore, even then she wouldn't be killing the child of neccesity, but for convenience.

Prove how ending a pregnancy for reasons of physical/mental health or financial trouble is for "convenience".

1-transitive property of congruence?
2-because, it's not going to kill her.

So, being completely broke and not being able to feed your fresh new bundle of joy is an "inconvenience"? Having to drop out of school and work at McDonald's is an "inconvenience"? Having your boyfriend leave to raise the child you never wanted is an "inconvenience"?

I see little logic in that. =/

[Munkers]

The bulk of this debate has been over personhood, the right to a choice, moral implications of said choice and some related topics. But what I keep wondering is this:

We know that abortion is going to happen no matter what we do. Abortion was illegal in the United States until the 70's, but women still found ways to obtain them. And we know how those turned out. Women did awful, horrible things to themselves because they had no other choice. They couldn't carry on with the pregnancy and they didn't have a safe alternative.

And that brings me to my question:

Since we know that we can't stop abortion, then shouldn't we try to make it as safe as possible? Shouldn't we keep the trained doctors and sterile enviroment? Because honestly, if you're willing to turn a woman away knowing full well that she'll resort to bodily harm in an attempt to force a miscarriage, how can you call yourself pro-life when you haven't done everything in your power to keep her safe?

[divineseraph]

i leave now. contemplate.... life, or convenience.

[Beatrix the catgirl]

divineseraph

i leave now. contemplate.... life, or convenience.

You fail at trying to impose guilt on us my dear.

[divineseraph]

Munkers

The bulk of this debate has been over personhood, the right to a choice, moral implications of said choice and some related topics. But what I keep wondering is this:

We know that abortion is going to happen no matter what we do. Abortion was illegal in the United States until the 70's, but women still found ways to obtain them. And we know how those turned out. Women did awful, horrible things to themselves because they had no other choice. They couldn't carry on with the pregnancy and they didn't have a safe alternative.

And that brings me to my question:

Since we know that we can't stop abortion, then shouldn't we try to make it as safe as possible? Shouldn't we keep the trained doctors and sterile enviroment? Because honestly, if you're willing to turn a woman away knowing full well that she'll resort to bodily harm in an attempt to force a miscarriage, how can you call yourself pro-life when you haven't done everything in your power to keep her safe?

if she is willing to die in order to spite life, let her.

[Mistress DragonFlame]

[Talon-chan]

Munkers

The bulk of this debate has been over personhood, the right to a choice, moral implications of said choice and some related topics. But what I keep wondering is this:

We know that abortion is going to happen no matter what we do. Abortion was illegal in the United States until the 70's, but women still found ways to obtain them. And we know how those turned out. Women did awful, horrible things to themselves because they had no other choice. They couldn't carry on with the pregnancy and they didn't have a safe alternative.

And that brings me to my question:

Since we know that we can't stop abortion, then shouldn't we try to make it as safe as possible? Shouldn't we keep the trained doctors and sterile enviroment? Because honestly, if you're willing to turn a woman away knowing full well that she'll resort to bodily harm in an attempt to force a miscarriage, how can you call yourself pro-life when you haven't done everything in your power to keep her safe?

But don't you understand? If the dirty whore wants to kill the poor innocent thinking feeling clump of fetus she deserves to die in return!

She knew the consequences of trying to obtain an illegal abortion so let her suffer and die... because she took a risk she should be denied medical attention.

Better to have them both die, then let women actively enjoy sex... wait... that's not very pro-life of me.

[Munkers]

divineseraph

oh, munkers- should the fetus be dead or have a 0-1% chance of survival, i'd agree with abortion. i mean, otherwise it would just suffer. that i s not life, that is a cruel parody.

But if there's a 1% chance of survival, that's still a chance. How can you just draw a line at some arbitrary number and say that "below x% chance, you can abort the child," but at any other percentage an abortion is unacceptable?

[paper_phoenix]

divineseraph

1-transitive property of congruence?

Are you saying that-in instances of rape-a woman is consenting to pregnancy because she had sex?

Quote:

2-because, it's not going to kill her.

You honestly think that a woman wouldn't commit suicide if she was given no other alternative regarding her pregnancy and her body?

[[ I Break For Beavers ]]

Beatrix the catgirl

divineseraph

i leave now. contemplate.... life, or convenience.

You fail at trying to impose guilt on us my dear.

Yes he most definitly does! mrgreen

[Reinna Astarel]

divineseraph

i leave now. contemplate.... life, or convenience.

You mean, bodily integrity, dearest.

In that case, Rei chooses convenience, because it'd be damn inconvenient if my lil future forced baby starved to death because I couldn't afford to feed it. Or if both it and I died during its birth because I couldn't afford to give birth at a hospital. Or if both it and I live a shitty shitty life because I gave birth during a time that forced me to quite my job, and lose my income. whee

[Talon-chan]

divineseraph

Munkers

The bulk of this debate has been over personhood, the right to a choice, moral implications of said choice and some related topics. But what I keep wondering is this:

We know that abortion is going to happen no matter what we do. Abortion was illegal in the United States until the 70's, but women still found ways to obtain them. And we know how those turned out. Women did awful, horrible things to themselves because they had no other choice. They couldn't carry on with the pregnancy and they didn't have a safe alternative.

And that brings me to my question:

Since we know that we can't stop abortion, then shouldn't we try to make it as safe as possible? Shouldn't we keep the trained doctors and sterile enviroment? Because honestly, if you're willing to turn a woman away knowing full well that she'll resort to bodily harm in an attempt to force a miscarriage, how can you call yourself pro-life when you haven't done everything in your power to keep her safe?

if she is willing to die in order to spite life, let her.

Case in point!

How pro-life of you. Better to have women and feti die to punish her for daring to have sex than to simply let women who think, feel, have friends and family dare live their lives.