Homosexuality Is NOT A Sin: What Christ Said And More

[linaloki]

Berii_Love

linaloki

First off, we need to define a few terms. These are terms that will help guide the path of this thread, as well as understand the differences between things.

Christianity – Christianity is, typically, a belief in the teachings of Jesus the Christ. It is a belief that He is the Son of God and the Son of Man, Alpha and Omega, and the Messiah prophesied in the Holy Texts of the prophets. Belief in the resurrection of Christ, endowment of the Holy Spirit, and the Bible are also normally beliefs included in Christianity.

Gnosticism – Gnosticism is a form of Christianity that, to be honest, I don’t have much of a clue about. However, it is to be noted that Gnostic Christianity is distinctly different from Established Christianity, that of the Church founded by the Apostle Paul. I merely want it to be known that we will not be discussing Gnosticism in this thread. For more on Gnosticism, look for the threads mentioned in the last post.

Popular Christianity – We’ll note now that, yes, this one is a tad different from Christianity. Unfortunately, it’s also what nearly everyone claims or thinks is Christianity, and it’s been giving Christians a bad name for a while. Another name for this might be embellished Christianity. Basically, it is a faith in the Church or the Clergy, a faith that whatever they say on matters pertaining to the Bible and the Spirit. People that ascribe to this version of Christianity almost never have actually read the Bible, are unable to list the Ten Commandments, and are laden with other woes and ignorance that is found easily in the Scripture. It’s this type of Christianity that spawns so many problems and misconceptions, especially thanks to the Catholic Church and the Papacy being able to say whatever they wanted about the Bible and be infallible. Misconceptions that sprout from this PC include Hell, homosexuality is a sin, the Deadly Sins, etcetera. Those misconceptions spawned from this form of Christianity are what we’ll be covering.

Sin – Here’s a word some people use a tad liberally. A sin is simply a transgression against God and His Laws. Cursing is not sinful, but cursing God is. Lashing out in anger is ALSO not sinful. Jesus Christ Himself did it on at least two occasions. Once in the Temple, and once on a road, striking a fig tree with withering plague. Also, just because it is sinful does not mean it is horrendously wrong. Imagining someone in a sexually pleasing to you manner is lust, a sin. However, it is not a “great evil”. There is no sin that cannot be forgiven, except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. And that’s a Biblical fact.

These next posts will deal with common MAJOR misconceptions Christians have.

cursing and swearing is a sin, in the bible a man cussed and someone heard him he was taken to the front of the camp of the hebrews and stoned to death.

Cursing. As in saying, "Stupid thing." That is, through technical definition, cursing. Swearing is, yes, a sin, but not stonable anymore. And in the ancient Jewish days, they didn't have words like "********" and "s**t". They had people cursing other people or God.

[Half Baked SF]

IT LIVES! heart

[Rookherst[KOS]]

linaloki

Cursing. As in saying, "Stupid thing." That is, through technical definition, cursing. Swearing is, yes, a sin, but not stonable anymore. And in the ancient Jewish days, they didn't have words like "********" and "s**t". They had people cursing other people or God.

I think any laws against Cursing are from the Literal means. To take Magical Means to Cause ill will against another.

In this ********, s**t" Don't count, but "May Devils Swallow what little soul you have".....probably would count.

[Half Baked SF]

Hayabashi 2

Blah blah blah, God said have kids.

Ho noes! Jesus was a sinner!

God didn't mean for everyone to procreate. If He did Earth wouldn't have a carrying capacity and Jesus would have been a father (or, in the event that he actually was, the church would welcome the idea).

[Half Baked SF]

Hayabashi 2

I still don't think that homosexual sex is right with God, because in those same verses it says, "Men gave up their natural desires to court with woman and lusted after each other". That seems very much like the fact that they gave up their natural desires to court with men was incorrect.

Sounds more like a straight guy having sex with other dudes. Completely irrelevant to genuine attractions to the same sex.

[linaloki]

Scare Tactic Propaganda

Hayabashi 2

I still don't think that homosexual sex is right with God, because in those same verses it says, "Men gave up their natural desires to court with woman and lusted after each other". That seems very much like the fact that they gave up their natural desires to court with men was incorrect.

Sounds more like a straight guy having sex with other dudes. Completely irrelevant to genuine attractions to the same sex.

Can't forget the lust. The lust that is plainly stated in the verse. That is stated repeatedly in that segment of verses. That is condemned over and over again, including by Jesus.

[Half Baked SF]

linaloki

Scare Tactic Propaganda

Hayabashi 2

I still don't think that homosexual sex is right with God, because in those same verses it says, "Men gave up their natural desires to court with woman and lusted after each other". That seems very much like the fact that they gave up their natural desires to court with men was incorrect.

Sounds more like a straight guy having sex with other dudes. Completely irrelevant to genuine attractions to the same sex.

Can't forget the lust. The lust that is plainly stated in the verse. That is stated repeatedly in that segment of verses. That is condemned over and over again, including by Jesus.

3nodding What I described is lust, correct?

[linaloki]

Scare Tactic Propaganda

linaloki

Scare Tactic Propaganda

Hayabashi 2

I still don't think that homosexual sex is right with God, because in those same verses it says, "Men gave up their natural desires to court with woman and lusted after each other". That seems very much like the fact that they gave up their natural desires to court with men was incorrect.

Sounds more like a straight guy having sex with other dudes. Completely irrelevant to genuine attractions to the same sex.

Can't forget the lust. The lust that is plainly stated in the verse. That is stated repeatedly in that segment of verses. That is condemned over and over again, including by Jesus.

3nodding What I described is lust, correct?

Could be. I'm just frustrated that people ignore the overly repeated word in the verses. AND the fact that I covered that verse in the OP. crying People could at least acknowledge it before they go on a silly rant. (Not you, BTW. The ones that disagree with everything I say.)

[] .The. [ Dark ] .One. []

Scare Tactic Propaganda

linaloki

Scare Tactic Propaganda

Hayabashi 2

I still don't think that homosexual sex is right with God, because in those same verses it says, "Men gave up their natural desires to court with woman and lusted after each other". That seems very much like the fact that they gave up their natural desires to court with men was incorrect.

Sounds more like a straight guy having sex with other dudes. Completely irrelevant to genuine attractions to the same sex.

Can't forget the lust. The lust that is plainly stated in the verse. That is stated repeatedly in that segment of verses. That is condemned over and over again, including by Jesus.

3nodding What I described is lust, correct?

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The strict desire to have sex with another is lust, yes.

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[Zoreta]

What needs to be separated is god condemning homosexuality and god condemning homosexual activity. He speakes against homosexual sex- but there is nothing against homosexuality itself.

The main thing here is the loop hole. The bible condemns sex outside marriage. However, homosexuals aren't allowed to marry- therefore, they can not have sex. The latter is based on the former- a classic loophole.

[TrunkstheSlayer]

Zoreta

What needs to be separated is god condemning homosexuality and god condemning homosexual activity. He speakes against homosexual sex- but there is nothing against homosexuality itself.

Proof?

Quote:

The main thing here is the loop hole. The bible condemns sex outside marriage. However, homosexuals aren't allowed to marry- therefore, they can not have sex. The latter is based on the former- a classic loophole.

To bad God never set any such restriction on marriage

[] .The. [ Dark ] .One. []

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If you speak from the Bible, I don't recall ever reading that homosexual marriage was a sin. I do know that lust is a sin.
Bit it's a sin for all, not just homosexuals.

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[linaloki]

Zoreta

What needs to be separated is god condemning homosexuality and god condemning homosexual activity. He speakes against homosexual sex- but there is nothing against homosexuality itself.

God only spoke against homosexual male sexual activity. And that no longer applies, either.

Zoreta

The main thing here is the loop hole. The bible condemns sex outside marriage. However, homosexuals aren't allowed to marry- therefore, they can not have sex. The latter is based on the former- a classic loophole.

They cannot have sex without sinning, yes. The answer to this is to let them marry.

[ZIMG]

Just read that whole big long post. You make some awesome points. Since I am of no religious standing or background I can't really debate with any of it. I've never read more then Genesis and pieces of the New Testament from the Bible but I have read Dante's Divine Comedy. I did research afterwards and found that most modern perceptions of Hell are all based on that.

Interesting tidbit. Hel was the Underworld in Norse mythology(realm of the dead) as well as the ruler of that realm.

From Wikipedia:
Hel(realm)-
In Norse mythology, the realm Hel shares a name with its ruler, Hel. As described in Snorri Sturluson's Prose Edda it is a place thronged with the shivering and shadowy spectres of those who have died ingloriously of disease or in old age. Hel is also home to dishonourable people who have broken oaths. Hel is cold and low in the overall order of the universe. It lies beneath Yggdrasil's third root, near Hvergelmir and Náströnd. It is uncertain if Hel and Niflheim are completely different places, if one is part of the other, or if both are names for the same place.

Hel is said to be a hall with a roof woven from the spines of serpents which drip poison down onto those who wade in the rivers of blood below. The people who dwell in the halls are given nothing but goat's urine to quench their thirst. The doors of the hall are said to be set in the south, away from Asgard which lies to the north. The Poetic Edda describes doors as facing north.

The hall is surrounded by a river called Gjoll, which is freezing cold and has knives flowing in it.

The only way across the river is over a bridge guarded by the giantess Móðguð (Modgud). If a living person steps on the bridge, it rings out as if a thousand men walk across it, yet the dead pass without a sound.

It is similar to Hades and the River Styx from Greek mythology, and inspired (and lends its name to the English word for) the Christian concept of Hell.

In fiction, the Norse Hel inspired the Halls of Mandos in J. R. R. Tolkien's legendarium.

Hel(being)-
In Norse mythology, Hel (sometimes Anglicized or Latinized as Hela) is the queen of Hel, the Norse underworld, and she lives in Eliudnir.

In the Gylfaginning, she is described as the daughter of Loki and Angrboða – a giantess (gýgr, see jotun) – and thus sister of the Fenrisulfr and the sea serpent Jörmungandr. Since her father is often described as a god, although both his parents were giants, the same might be said of Hel.

When Odin became aware of the existence of Loki's children, he banished them to remote places. Hel he cast down to her realm in the underworld and gave her authority over all those in the nine worlds who do not die gloriously in battle but of sickness or of old age.

She builds Naglfar, to be used against the Æsir at Ragnarök.

Hel's possessions are described thus:

Hon á þar mikla bólstaði ok eru garðar hennar forkunnar hávir ok grindr stórar. Éljúðnir heitir salr hennar, Hungr diskr hennar, Sultr knífr hennar, Ganglati þrællinn, Ganglöt ambátt, Fallandaforað þresköldr hennar er inn gengr, Kör sæing, Blíkjandaböl ársali hennar. Hon er blá hálf en hálf með hörundarlit, því er hon auðkend ok heldr gnúpleit ok grimmlig.
[1]
She has great possessions there; her walls are exceeding high and her gates great. Her hall is called Sleet-Cold; her dish, Hunger; Famine is her knife; Idler, her slave; Sloven, her maidservant; Pit of Stumbling, her threshold, by which one enters; Disease, her bed; Gleaming Bale, her bed-hangings. She is half blue-black and half flesh-color (by which she is easily recognized), and very lowering and fierce.
—Brodeur translation

Later in the same source is described how Hermóðr tries to retrieve the dead Baldr's soul from Hel.

En þat er at segja frá Hermóði at hann reið níu nætr døkkva dala ok djúpa svá at hann sá ekki fyrr en hann kom til árinnar Gjallar ok reið á Gjallarbrúna. Hon er þökt lýsigulli. Móðguðr er nefnd mær sú er gætir brúarinnar.
[2]


Now this is to be told concerning Hermóðr, that he rode nine nights through dark dales and deep, so that he saw not before he was come to the river Gjöll (or Gjallar-river) and rode onto the Gjöll-Bridge (or Gjallar-bridge); which bridge is thatched with glittering gold. Móðguðr is the maiden called who guards the bridge.

The path to Hel is known as the Helvegr and the gates Helgrindr or Nágrind ("Corpse Gate" wink . Here Garmr is fastened, Hel's watchdog, who is bloody both on chest and neck.

Heimskringla relates that she procured herself a spouse by having the Swedish king Dyggvi die a natural death.

Her name is the source of the English word hell.

Mikchail Bulgakov named the devil's witch Hela, in his masterpiece "The Master and Margarita".

[edit] Theories

It has been suggested that this description of Hel is of later date, and that she originally was a much more neutral goddess over the realm of shadows, where all, both good and evil, courageous and cowardly, gather after death. This can be seen as being supported by the etymology of Hel (Lat. Celāre, Ger. hehlen), meaning the "hider". It is important to note that also the noble Baldr and the brave Sigurd are sent to Hel after their deaths. Bishop Wulfila uses the Gothic word Halja to translate the Greek "Hades."

Viktor Rydberg, in particular, advocated this view. In the book "Our Fathers' Godsaga" he theorizes that the correct name for Loki's daughter is in fact "Leikn" and that, in Christian times, she was confused with Urðr, one of the three Norns and the dís of fate and death. Rydberg's theories are not generally accepted.

Thought that was interesting and might interest you since you do have the name of a Norse deity in your name. That and I can see parallels with what little I know of Christianity which came after the Norse time. Norse was also part of the 'pagan' religions wiped out by the Roman Empire when it became Christian.

[] .The. [ Dark ] .One. []

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Dante's Hell is a frozen realm as well.
But then.
I've never heard of Dante's Divine Comedy that I can recall.
Sooo.
I have no idea what you mean.
-Shrug.-

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