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I had to write a paper on leadership, and I choose to use Hitler as an example. That man had so much influence, and was a very smart man. He might have been one of the greatest leaders of all time (or at least top 10).
Hitler had millions of people killed, but people have forgotten that Stalin had many more millions killed than Hitler did.

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Hedgehog Mommy
Hitler had millions of people killed, but people have forgotten that Stalin had many more millions killed than Hitler did.

Like hell they did. Russian Television pops out at least one documentary a year about what a psycho the man was.
And my grandpa watches all of them XD

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O.o...

interesting discussion...
Hedgehog Mommy
Hitler had millions of people killed, but people have forgotten that Stalin had many more millions killed than Hitler did.


So what? Why play this numbers game? In both instances, thousands of people died.
Silent Quale
Hell, because of this he was time's man of the year, which is something most people think is just a photoshopped picture.

In 30 to 50 years all of the holocaust survivors will die out and it is my idea that Hitler will take his place alongside other equally radical leaders like Napoleon and Alexander the Great for his actions in helping Germany. Does this make me a bigot that I'm suggesting people will forget about one of the most publicized genocides in human history? Maybe. Then again, there are a hell of a lot of people turning a blind eye to modern slavery and genocide etc...


To my understanding, Hitler wasn't chosen because of his good works for Germany. Time chooses people who "for better or for worse, ...has done the most to influence the events of the year." Certainly Hitler would be recognized more for his bad works in 1938 than for any good he may have done. Look up 1938 and see Hitler's actions in it to decide for yourself.

And the difference between Adolf Hitler and leaders like Alexander the Great or Napoleon is that Alexander and Napoleon had to kill enemy soldiers to take over various countries (not condoning war); Hitler brutally killed, experimented on, and mentally/physically damaged 6,000,000++ people because they were Jewish, Polish, Soviet, Romanian, gypsies, disabled, deformed, a/o disagreed with his opinions.

The fact is, whatever good works Hitler may have done for Germany are vastly overshadowed by his authorization of the torture and murder of 6,000,000+ people throughout Europe. While Hitler may receive a nod in history books (as the Holocaust becomes an older event) for his good works for Germany, I think that his life and political career will always be defined by the Holocaust.

As the winner usually writes the history books, it's probably fair to say, "Well, if Hitler had won, then we'd all be singing praises of how good he was for Germany." But I still think, even if the majority of us thought he was great, that most of us would see his greatest action as the murder of all his opponents and those of "non-Aryan" race. We'd see his "strengthening" (and no, I don't actually think that's what he was doing) of our race as his greatest acheviement, so he'd still be defined by the Holocaust.


Quote:
Oh, and people tend to remember slaughter - see Christopher Columbus.

This is true, but only recently so, I think. Columbus, at least in the U.S., was long acknowledged as the man who discovered America. I don't remember really learning anything about his slaughter of Native American Indians, even though I learned about the Holocaust and Stalin's persecution in the Soviet Union.

Yet just a few weeks ago in my European History class we were discussing Columbus and his impact on the world, and many of us were amazed at the extent of his cruelties. I've noticed that this also seems to come up more than it had before; I think this shows how we're becoming more aware that Columbus did a lot more, and most of it very bad, then finding the Americas. I think it's sad that this is only becoming deemed as important now, and therefore worthy of knowing. It just kinda shows how the winner writes the history book.
He wouldn't have been in the wrong if he had won, and written the history books.
The Jews would have become something like the Native Americans, or the Bushmen of Australia. "Too bad they were all but exterminated, but, what's done is done."

It was just another stupid war, really.
Jonny Ruin
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Westenblum
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Sparatcus

It doesn't matter, one way or the other he headed the murder of millions of people and history isn't just going to turn a blind eye to that.
I agree, there won't be a blind eye but in a few decades it'll just be another history book story and will be minuscule compared to articles on Hitler's political achievements, that and the second world war.


Wait . . . you think the systematic slaughter of millions would become secondary to Hitler's political achievements and his military behavior in a few decades?
That's what generally happens, yes.


Well then, name a prime example!


Sinn Féin.
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Jonny Ruin
Silent Quale
Westenblum
Silent Quale
Sparatcus

It doesn't matter, one way or the other he headed the murder of millions of people and history isn't just going to turn a blind eye to that.
I agree, there won't be a blind eye but in a few decades it'll just be another history book story and will be minuscule compared to articles on Hitler's political achievements, that and the second world war.


Wait . . . you think the systematic slaughter of millions would become secondary to Hitler's political achievements and his military behavior in a few decades?
That's what generally happens, yes.


Well then, name a prime example!


Sinn Féin.


Never head of him.

You should of went with Vlad Dracul, his reign killed thousands but the Transylvanian's (Turks now I believe) see him as a national hero

But wait, the rest of the world that was against him remembers Vlad as a monster,

Furthermore germany has made it illegal to be a Nazi, and once again, the world that fought against Hiler remembers him as a beast.
George Kapland The 4th
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Jonny Ruin
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Westenblum


Wait . . . you think the systematic slaughter of millions would become secondary to Hitler's political achievements and his military behavior in a few decades?
That's what generally happens, yes.


Well then, name a prime example!


Sinn Féin.


Never head of him.

You should of went with Vlad Dracul, his reign killed thousands but the Transylvanian's (Turks now I believe) see him as a national hero

But wait, the rest of the world that was against him remembers Vlad as a monster,

Furthermore germany has made it illegal to be a Nazi, and once again, the world that fought against Hiler remembers him as a beast.


Sinn Féin is an Irish Republic party. In the 80s and 90s they bombed the UK and were generally...terrorists.

Now they're freedom fighters, fighting back oppression.

Correction: West Germany had the Nazi laws inforced by America and the UK whilst it was under their control. The laws have stayed and spread to the whole unified country. However, they are not German.

I'm an East Berlin b***h cool
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George Kapland The 4th
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Jonny Ruin
Silent Quale
Westenblum


Wait . . . you think the systematic slaughter of millions would become secondary to Hitler's political achievements and his military behavior in a few decades?
That's what generally happens, yes.


Well then, name a prime example!


Sinn Féin.


Never head of him.

You should of went with Vlad Dracul, his reign killed thousands but the Transylvanian's (Turks now I believe) see him as a national hero

But wait, the rest of the world that was against him remembers Vlad as a monster,

Furthermore germany has made it illegal to be a Nazi, and once again, the world that fought against Hiler remembers him as a beast.


Sinn Féin is an Irish Republic party. In the 80s and 90s they bombed the UK and were generally...terrorists.

Now they're freedom fighters, fighting back oppression.

Correction: West Germany had the Nazi laws inforced by America and the UK whilst it was under their control. The laws have stayed and spread to the whole unified country. However, they are not German.

I'm an East Berlin b***h cool


Oh, I didn't know his name.. I do have an IRA shirt laying about though.

Anyway, how does the laws being forced by the US and UK invalidate my point? If anything it strengthens it.
George Kapland The 4th
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George Kapland The 4th
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Jonny Ruin


Well then, name a prime example!


Sinn Féin.


Never head of him.

You should of went with Vlad Dracul, his reign killed thousands but the Transylvanian's (Turks now I believe) see him as a national hero

But wait, the rest of the world that was against him remembers Vlad as a monster,

Furthermore germany has made it illegal to be a Nazi, and once again, the world that fought against Hiler remembers him as a beast.


Sinn Féin is an Irish Republic party. In the 80s and 90s they bombed the UK and were generally...terrorists.

Now they're freedom fighters, fighting back oppression.

Correction: West Germany had the Nazi laws inforced by America and the UK whilst it was under their control. The laws have stayed and spread to the whole unified country. However, they are not German.

I'm an East Berlin b***h cool


Oh, I didn't know his name.. I do have an IRA shirt laying about though.

Anyway, how does the laws being forced by the US and UK invalidate my point? If anything it strengthens it.


Yeah, the IRA are part of Sinn Féin or something. It's confusing but they're linked and both bombed the UK.

BUT they were always nice enough to phone up and tell people.

It doesn't invalidate your post at all. It's just that you said "Germany has made it illegal to be a Nazi". Germany however didn't, the US and UK did. It's also not actually illegal to be Nazi though... There's a neo-Nazi march every year through Westphalia or somewhere down there.

But either way, I was just clearing up who actually made it illegal and whatnot.

Dangerous Seeker

Hitler was a genius statesman in that he took a country from the shitter and brought it up to where it nearly conquered all of Europe. If he hadn't suddenly become even more of a paranoid tramp then he was we might all be speaking sieg heiling today.
Anyone who doesn't realize Hitler did good things for Germany is kind of a moron. Yes, he was a great leader. But at what price? Sure he saved a country, but he also killed millions in horrible ways. So while yes, he did do good things he is never really going to be considered a 'great leader' except in the horrible sense that he led millions of people to horrible, untimely deaths.
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George Kapland The 4th
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George Kapland The 4th
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Jonny Ruin


Well then, name a prime example!


Sinn Féin.


Never head of him.

You should of went with Vlad Dracul, his reign killed thousands but the Transylvanian's (Turks now I believe) see him as a national hero

But wait, the rest of the world that was against him remembers Vlad as a monster,

Furthermore germany has made it illegal to be a Nazi, and once again, the world that fought against Hiler remembers him as a beast.


Sinn Féin is an Irish Republic party. In the 80s and 90s they bombed the UK and were generally...terrorists.

Now they're freedom fighters, fighting back oppression.

Correction: West Germany had the Nazi laws inforced by America and the UK whilst it was under their control. The laws have stayed and spread to the whole unified country. However, they are not German.

I'm an East Berlin b***h cool


Oh, I didn't know his name.. I do have an IRA shirt laying about though.

Anyway, how does the laws being forced by the US and UK invalidate my point? If anything it strengthens it.


Yeah, the IRA are part of Sinn Féin or something. It's confusing but they're linked and both bombed the UK.

BUT they were always nice enough to phone up and tell people.

It doesn't invalidate your post at all. It's just that you said "Germany has made it illegal to be a Nazi". Germany however didn't, the US and UK did. It's also not actually illegal to be Nazi though... There's a neo-Nazi march every year through Westphalia or somewhere down there.

But either way, I was just clearing up who actually made it illegal and whatnot.

Whoever is responsible for outlawing national socialism is unimportant, I guess.
But it definatly is illegal to state nazi-ideas in public (or any anti-democratic ideals, for that matter). The reason why the nazi-marches can´t be stopped is because those people claim not to be nazis, when in reality everyone knows what they really want and think. You will never see obvious nazi-signs, or something like that during such a demo. If they actually put up swastikas, or would shout "kill all non-arians". All those ******** would be imprisoned faster than you can say "protecting the constitution"

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