Welcome to Gaia! ::


4,500 Points
  • Signature Look 250
  • Autobiographer 200
  • Hygienic 200
I can't believe we got moved, especially with the mods participating in off topic chatter! Still, that's a whole other can of worms. And I have many cans...

This month's MC's were actually good (so I'm wearing one of each to show my support...I don't know if that'll work, though!), but lately, it has felt as though they've been shoved aside while they design the next evolution of the EIs. May I suggest that Gaia doesn't evolve them en-mass (say, two or three as opposed to five or six an announcement) unless you have enough time to protect your MC 's quality? Either that, or scrap MCs and focus on EIs (as much as it pains me to say it, and I'm sure there'd be a lot of outrage at no MCs...)

My bottom line is: I don't want to feel like one piggybank out of millions. So, stop making us feel like we're being milked for money.

Romantic Gekko

'04 user here.

okay, ill start off with agreement.
i completely agree with you on the fact that Gaia staff push us off to deal with later.
PERFECT EXAMPLE:
2 years ago, i actually managed to scrounge up enough gold to buy a g-blade from the marketplace. a month or so later, i got fooled into trading it away for a starter item (yes,i deserved it). i filed a report, and waited a couple of days for it to hopefully get taken care of. it never happened in a couple of days...and i eventually forgot about it.
almost exactly 8 months after that incident happened, i get a PM saying WE HAVE RETURNED YOUR ITEM. i open it up and it basically tells me that they "tracked down" my g-blade and have given it back to me. and that was cool and all, but what was at the end of the message kinda ticked me off.
"Sorry it took so long, we've been trying to make changes to the site, among other things, and we hope you will accept our dearest apologies."
and im sitting here like, "its cool that i got my item, but what the truck is this s**t?"
so yes, i agree on the fact that Gaia staff saves us for later

i would like to add that the way Gaia is with the new layout, is somewhat acceptable.
of course i miss the old days with the original layout, but as the users get older, so does the site. i actually thought the old layout was boring.

Rally was in need of an update, though the Big Wheel was pushing it, and the "magic wall" in the northern corner of the wheel room needs to be dealt with. and scripters in both Rally and Towns ******** piss me off to no end.

i believe Gaia is "sold out."
when Gaia started advertising things through items, they started with anime, which was acceptable because almost everyone was into anime at that time, then it led to some video games, which was also acceptable. but what started the "selling out" in my opinion, was when Gaia advertised The Last Mimzy. first of all, the movie was geared to a younger audience, and no mater where you went on Gaia, all you saw was the last mimzy ads.
what truly "sold out" Gaia was the ******** MTV Virtual Hollywood event, store and their version of Towns. that also pissed me off to no end.

another thing, when you initially sign up for Gaia, it tells you that if you are under the age of 13, please refrain from signing up. i wish people would listen to this, cause its really hard to try to get to know someone, when the other person is 6 years old, i swear to you that ******** happened to me. i felt like a ***** especially since im 17 turning 18 this year.

im not the only 04 user left, but im the only one so far to think that some of the changes were for the better. im actually getting tired of people saying, "I wish Gaia was like the old days."
most of these people are just plain xenophobes that wont stop whining about the old days.
in the old days in real life, gas was 25 cents a gallon, now its over 3 bucks...and guess what, people complain about it, but ultimately you're going to have deal with it eventually.

thats just the start of things for now, but my fingers hurt so imma stop this post now
You know, Indulge, it might be okay for you to say that...except the account I was banned on wasn't used for anything but selling unwanted Daily Chance items that I had received on my main.
I'm not too butthurt about it, since I had nothing to lose, but still.
If they wanted to ban me, they could have banned my main. It would have made more sense, even I had been botting.
You CAN get banned for profiting from botted gold/or items obtained with botted gold, especially if you weren't the one to do the source botting.
I'm pretty spooked right now.
As I pointed out in the earlier thread, I can eat out for less than the cost of many cash items ($15 for a cash item after currency conversion, vs $9 for dinner at a Thai restaurant), which is just a little silly. Those are some expensive pixels. Anyway, even if I wanted to buy these pixels, I would not be able to, not having a credit card, not being able to trust PayPal with the account details for my meagre life savings, and not living in the US and therefore being unable to purchase Gaia cash cards. I am moderately confident that many -- perhaps even a majority of Gaians -- are in an almost identical situation.

I honestly would not object to premium cash items, as long as the basics are provided on this supposedly free site. For instance, even if I had a choice of two fish species, two or three backgrounds and a scattering of decorations for my aquarium available for purchase with gold, I'd be satisfied enough. The rest I can always save for on the marketplace. It's not ideal, but it'll do.

Effectively freezing non-paying members out of features entirely is insulting on a site that always has been -- and still is -- free to join, and supposedly to play, and it's just bad business. Freeze out members who can't pay at the moment, and you get threads like this, made by disgruntled people like us.

Yes, Gaia needs money. No, I don't directly give Gaia money. I do suffer their advertising, though, which is certainly a source of revenue for them -- on a bustling site like this, how much do you suppose they make through advertising space?

What about merchandise? Someone argued that the merch cost money. That's slightly backward logic: if the merch is costing the producer money, then, as they say, you're doing it wrong.

Requesting extremely large amounts of money for the privilege of displaying a few pixels is ridiculous. If the high prices in the cash shop are "neccessary" to the continued running of Gaia, the business is probably doing something not quite right, and could probably be pared down to something more efficient and reasonable. If you are admin, and can convincingly argue otherwise, I might believe it, but the amount of general advertising, direct promotions (read: the majority of quests, and several items) and merchandise sales must generate quite a healthy degree of revenue, and I would be surprised if the extortionate cash items are really necessary to your health and wellbeing.

Considering the number of comments regarding bannings, I am, of course, now led onto another interesting issue, namely the ethics of banning and removal of access to Gaia items when such items have been actually paid for in cash. Of course, the cash items are technically treated as "donations" for which you are "rewarded" or "thanked" with a bunch of pixels, so this can be gotten around, but this argument is weak. In all practical senses, this is a purchase. I could not run a clothing shop wherein I could confiscate items my customers have paid for because they have offended me on the grounds that they "donated" the money to me, and I gave them the item of clothing as a thanks for the donation. How is this honestly different from banning an account containing cash-purchased items? It is not. Maybe it would be, were Gaia not unquestionably a business.



Tl;dr?
  • Some Gaia cash items cost more than my dinner.
  • Premium items are fine, just don't make features completely cash-only
  • There are some horrible ethical issues with banning accounts containing cash-purchased items.
Mez10000
I can't believe we got moved, especially with the mods participating in off topic chatter! Still, that's a whole other can of worms. And I have many cans...

This month's MC's were actually good (so I'm wearing one of each to show my support...I don't know if that'll work, though!), but lately, it has felt as though they've been shoved aside while they design the next evolution of the EIs. May I suggest that Gaia doesn't evolve them en-mass (say, two or three as opposed to five or six an announcement) unless you have enough time to protect your MC 's quality? Either that, or scrap MCs and focus on EIs (as much as it pains me to say it, and I'm sure there'd be a lot of outrage at no MCs...)

My bottom line is: I don't want to feel like one piggybank out of millions. So, stop making us feel like we're being milked for money.


The main reason why this month's item is popular is because it's a blue rendition of older, popular item (Chyaku Norisu). The blue change has been high in request ever since it was released. Plus, it's a scarf; any item that is a color swap of a scarf (or just is a scarf) will be semi-popular. They can release a pink and bright green colored Nitemare Scarf and I bet it will be extremely popular, regardless of gender.

Which is sad, to me, because none of the items in my opinion have been enjoyable lately; for them to be enjoyable, it has to be a remake of another item. :

Shy Phantom

You clearly don't care about the staff members at all.
Have some respect already.
Go ahead and scream your heads off.
THEY HEAR YOU AND THEY'RE WORKING ON IT.
But you catch more flies with sugar than vinegar.
They don't want to come into a thread to be bashed at.
They want to see genuine suggestions that can help
them improve the site for all users.
Stop complaining and start suggesting ideas that
actually work.
And no- "Stop charging money for ___________!"
Or "Fix _________________ RIGHT FREAKIN` NAO!"
Doesn't help anyone.


I'm going to bed now. :3
`Pointless to convince the waves
when the tide pushes blindly the other way.
Plus, my brain can't handle much more seriousness
at nearly 3 am.
Sagger-AT3
Your post is long, so forgive me for being brief. I'm addressing several issues, mostly ones that have appeared since the first thread, or ones that have something to do with what I do on Gaia.

Text messages are perfectly safe - neither the sender not the receiver see each other's phone number.


Any reply is a good reply. Thank you for taking the time to talk to us about it.
I'm glad to hear that. Can it be traced or hacked...whatever, in any way?

Quote:
This is called "soft launch", and is a form of an open beta test.
Shame on us for testing things before fully releasing and announcing them.

Isn't that what SCAS is for?

Quote:
Great! It means that Gaia has not only a past and a present; Gaia has also a future to look for.


People get sick of waiting for things after three years.

Quote:
Gaia is free to play and enjoy. The biggest proof of this is the small percentage of Gaians who pay Gaia. Very small percentage. Dig up old Geeza's posts in the previous thread for more details about this.


I did read his post, and I understand that. But that isn't really...proof. It just shows that people don't pay the website. It doesn't mean they're able to get the items easily or at all. It doesn't mean they can enjoy the features or the site as much as those that pay for things.

Not only that but we've received conflicting information about how many people pay for Gaia. One person said you get FARRR more than 8% of us buying, which sounds like a lot, and others have only said a bit. Who are we supposed to believe?

[ .NK. ]
You keep releasing stupid features that no one wants (Cinemas, used mainly for your sponsorships that are annoying as hell, or VJ or whatever it's called which is overrun with porn and s**t no one wants to see. And let's not forget Gaia IM which is really rather pointless.) while neglecting features that people love.

[ .NK. ]
... You've yet to miss an EI update (maybe postpone it for a day, but you haven't missed one) but yet you've completely forgotten New Movie Mondays and several of the updates mentioned above, it seems. How is that fair to the people - your users - that you depend on?


Quote:

I'm not sure I can construct a constructive suggestions from these two...


I don't follow.

Quote:
As the guide for reporting these ads says, different people see different ads. Even if we decided that it's the mods' work, they could be refreshing pages all day long and not see these inappropriate ads. Unfortunately it is true that the average user won't be able to report the ad. (even though I do believe, as you said in the original post, that "We're smarter than you think we are" ). But we don't need everyone to report each ad. We only need a few, or in some cases - one report.


Like I said to someone else in this thread - It's a difficult process. Most users have no idea at all of how to do it. All the stuff you have to download and such...it's not something the average user can do. A lot of the people Gaia is trying to appeal to are young and can barely type (you can't deny it, lol), let alone know how to use the programs you listed. That's why I think mods and the users that actually can do it are more suited to it.

Quote:
eek
I respectfully disagree.


Think about it this way. Let's say a new $10 evolving item comes out. Most users won't buy it with cash, as you yourself said. Demand will be high while supply is low, meaning high prices, yes? Let's say the day that's released, the item costs 300,000 gold in the marketplace, which is typical. No typical user will be able to afford it at first. Let's say it evolves every two weeks.
Around the middle of the second week it will go down around 50, MAYBE 100k. That's 200,000 at best. The typical user won't be able to afford that. Every time it evolves it shoots right back up, the rinse and repeat.

Eventually more people will buy it with cash and the supply will be better and demand will go down, meaning the prices go down. Even then, it'll be around 80-100k. The typical user cannot afford that.

Let's say they've been saving up for it since the day it came out, and it fully evolves within, say, four months. Within four months, you're lucky to earn 70k. LUCKY. But at the same time, the item is nearly finished, so prices will skyrocket. They will never be able to afford.
Depending on the item, they MAY be able to get a different gen, but most likely not because you have to be a power user to get even 70k. And by the time they can afford that item, they'll want another EI because they're released so quickly. Then let's add gold shop items, aquarium fish, other random CS items, etc., and there you have it. The average user can't get many CS items AT ALL.

I, for one, can. I draw and I get paid well for it. But I'm in the minority. Most users on here can't draw, at least not well enough to get paid well for it (I'm honestly not trying to toot my own horn here, I'm just saying.)


Quote:
The effects of the mythril coins disappeared almost as fast as it came. The second time they were around, the effect was so small, it was barely noticeable. Gaia's economy was not "destroyed", and the 2% MP fee had nothing to do with it (it was implemented 8 months before the bag of win).
Prices in the MP are determined by market forces. If we gave everyone more gold, prices would just rise to compensate for it. It's as simple as that.


I beg to differ. Gaia's economy is awful. If the Mythril Coins had little effect it was because of one of two things: One, you made 1 million gold coins so rare that few people got them, or two, (or both?) the economy was already so ruined that they couldn't have ruined it more.
Yes prices will rise to compensate for it, but if you made the items in the cash shop cheaper, more people would buy them and gold prices would go down as well. It's a win win situation.

It had something to do with it, and I had a whole journal entry about it.
The gist of the story: we had a pricing error, that made potions' gold prices inconsistent with all other cash to gold ratio on Gaia. We fixed this problem a couple of days after releasing potions, by lowering the gold price of potions. Shame on us for fixing our mistakes. Shame on us for lowering the price of two items three days after they were introduced.

There's really no need to be sarcastic about it. The reason a lot of users, including myself, don't know the truth behind things like this is because we aren't informed unless we stalk your journals.

Quote:
Gaia is evolving. New features grant gold. New items serve as "gold sinks". Every single change we make on Gaia affects the economy.
Still, we do not intervene directly in the marketplace: we do not limit or influence the prices. Prices are determined by buyers and sellers.


You're using technicalities to get around the issue here. Gold sinks are a given.
You do interfere with the economy indirectly, and another dev told me this in the last thread. I don't feel like digging up the quote, but I will if I have to.
They said that you controlled how many fish went into the daily chance, thus lowering, or raising, the prices. That is affecting the economy. But like I said, you TECHNICALLY aren't, so you can get away with it.

Quote:

Not paying our moderators makes it harder to find good ones, not easier.


I understand that. My point is that you should more actively get new moderators. A moderator from the last thread told us that there are around 30 mods on at any given time. Right now Gaia is pretty dead, considering, and there are 25,000 users online. That's 30 mods for 25,000 users, and even worse, it can be 30 mods for 70,000 users. You certainly need more and lots of users want to be mods, but the rules are pretty strict on being one. I can understand WHY they're strict, but a change is required either way. This has been a problem since the beginning. I'm disappointed that it hasn't changed yet.

Quote:
We don't ban people for hacking, scamming and the likes without sufficient evidence. In the rare occasions when innocent users are banned, there is a mechanism for appeal. We take no joy in banning innocent users - why would we?


I've heard a lot of stories to the contrary. And while I don't believe every single one of them are innocent, I think there are some that are. Appeals rarely work. I tried to appeal a warning I got the other day, which was unfair, especially considering what the warn was for, and was told it would not be removed no matter what. And then the next day, GAIA did the same thing I apparently did. It's wrong for me to do it, but for Gaia, it's okay. And I don't want to talk about it in the forums, sorry for not giving more info.
But considering WARNS are that hard to appeal, I can imagine hackings and bannings being much more difficult to appeal. Lots of people get cut and paste replies to their inquiries anyways.

Quote:
We spend immense resources on banning bots. If you've seen any bots, in the arenas or elsewhere, report them. We're working on complementary anti-botting measures, and we're improving all the time, but CAPTCHAS are still the best solutions for some problems. We're still tweaking the frequency of CAPTCHAs, and will continue to do so to minimize the effects on real users. But unless some new invention comes along, CAPTCHA will stay with us for a while.



Well that's good to hear as well. What about the bots/scripters in towns? CAPTCHAs don't work on them.
Indulge [In Words]
You clearly don't care about the staff members at all.
Have some respect already.
Go ahead and scream your heads off.
THEY HEAR YOU AND THEY'RE WORKING ON IT.
But you catch more flies with sugar than vinegar.
They don't want to come into a thread to be bashed at.
They want to see genuine suggestions that can help
them improve the site for all users.
Stop complaining and start suggesting ideas that
actually work.
And no- "Stop charging money for ___________!"
Or "Fix _________________ RIGHT FREAKIN` NAO!"
Doesn't help anyone.


I'm going to bed now. :3
`Pointless to convince the waves
when the tide pushes blindly the other way.
Plus, my brain can't handle much more seriousness
at nearly 3 am.



Read the OP. This isn't directed at the devs. The devs are AWESOME for what they're doing for us. They're replying to us when this isn't directed at them. Hell, judging by the snippy responses we've gotten from then, they are taking this to heart and getting offended by what I'm saying. That's GOOD. That's saying a LOT about them. They still love this site even if they don't agree with what it's becoming. They fight for us CONSTANTLY. They're doing their best, and I applaud them.

Again, this isn't about the devs or admins or mods at all. It says so in the OP as well.

A Prunny's King

Undead Labtech

72,075 Points
  • Battle: Level 10 250
  • Brilliant Light 450
  • Way Too Many Pies 300

The whole Easter issue just reminded me of X-MAS of '07.
Or the lack there of...

The event was just the orphan thing and the only plot was Santa cow in
a sleazy apartment watching the news.

As pathetic as it sounds I was so depressed that Christmas...

User Image
xcrimsonlegendx

The whole Easter issue just reminded me of X-MAS of '07.
Or the lack there of...

The event was just the orphan thing and the only plot was Santa cow in
a sleazy apartment watching the news.

As pathetic as it sounds I was so depressed that Christmas...

User Image


Aaw, I liked that event: it didn't kill the site too badly, and it was really cute!

A Prunny's King

Undead Labtech

72,075 Points
  • Battle: Level 10 250
  • Brilliant Light 450
  • Way Too Many Pies 300
Flynn_MacCallister
xcrimsonlegendx

The whole Easter issue just reminded me of X-MAS of '07.
Or the lack there of...

The event was just the orphan thing and the only plot was Santa cow in
a sleazy apartment watching the news.

As pathetic as it sounds I was so depressed that Christmas...

User Image


Aaw, I liked that event: it didn't kill the site too badly, and it was really cute!

I liked it too, it was cute but it wasn't a true X-MAS event.
I was looking forward to the return of Santa and all the fun that plot related
shenanigans entail...

/I'm passionate about the plot

User Image

Romantic Gekko

Excuse me, but why was my post deleted?

Healer

xcrimsonlegendx

The whole Easter issue just reminded me of X-MAS of '07.
Or the lack there of...

The event was just the orphan thing and the only plot was Santa cow in
a sleazy apartment watching the news.

As pathetic as it sounds I was so depressed that Christmas...

User Image

See, why do things like these get put in the back burner when it's been part of Gaia's core as well.

These things get neglected along with many things that have bugs and glitches while we're busy making Gaia look more professional or finding ways to appeal to a different crowd/group of people so that we can increase the user base thus increase our profits. While the focus is shifting so much, again, things are being neglected.

Oh - and Indulge, here let me give a suggestion then.

In order to increase or better the experience on Gaia, some things like the plot and other things that are rather in need of actual fixing or more attention than a makeover to increase the demographics should be taken care of.

And it's understandable the staff is working hard, but we can also suggest what we would like to see them work more hard on. I believe no one here is saying we don't appreciate the staff. I think this shows more that we care rather than trying to shut down the place. Jeez, it's not like we're trying to kill the place. @_@;;

(On a side note, I enjoy the plots despite that it does need more depth and lots of plot holes need to be filled. :X

But an hour ago I was looking at the mangas and re-reading them actually, haha. That's how much I enjoyed them. x3)
xcrimsonlegendx
Flynn_MacCallister
xcrimsonlegendx

The whole Easter issue just reminded me of X-MAS of '07.
Or the lack there of...
The event was just the orphan thing and the only plot was Santa cow in
a sleazy apartment watching the news.
As pathetic as it sounds I was so depressed that Christmas...

User Image

Aaw, I liked that event: it didn't kill the site too badly, and it was really cute!

I liked it too, it was cute but it wasn't a true X-MAS event.
I was looking forward to the return of Santa and all the fun that plot related
shenanigans entail...
/I'm passionate about the plot

User Image


The orphan event was a depressing one. Probably because of how pathetic the orphans were...
xcrimsonlegendx
Flynn_MacCallister
xcrimsonlegendx

The whole Easter issue just reminded me of X-MAS of '07.
Or the lack there of...

The event was just the orphan thing and the only plot was Santa cow in
a sleazy apartment watching the news.

As pathetic as it sounds I was so depressed that Christmas...

User Image


Aaw, I liked that event: it didn't kill the site too badly, and it was really cute!

I liked it too, it was cute but it wasn't a true X-MAS event.
I was looking forward to the return of Santa and all the fun that plot related
shenanigans entail...

/I'm passionate about the plot

User Image


Fair 'nuff.

Quick Reply

Submit
Manage Your Items
Other Stuff
Get GCash
Offers
Get Items
More Items
Where Everyone Hangs Out
Other Community Areas
Virtual Spaces
Fun Stuff
Gaia's Games
Mini-Games
Play with GCash
Play with Platinum