[A] No breeding maximum = real equality

[Thalion]

This is not an attack on the lifemate/lovemate revision.

My opinion on the matter is my own, but in reading over the revision to the lifemate rules I did take notice that in trying to push 'equality' in regards to Soquili's mating system, an unfair advantage has been given to non-traditional pairs.

♥ A monogamous pair that can naturally reproduce can have 5 breedings per soquili involved. In order to be considered life mated, the two must be loyal and exclusive to one another. They are limited to breeding only with their partner. As a pair, they can have a maximum of 5 breedings. (Ignoring elder/wishing star situations.)

♥ A monogamous pair that cannot naturally reproduce (ie- mini/standard, sea/standard, mini-sea/mini-standard, incestuous, same-sex pairs, etc.) have 5 breedings per soquili involved. They can now be considered life-mated but since they cannot reproduce naturally with one another, they have to seek out donors and/or surrogates in order to raise a family. Each Soquili involved has 5 breedings. If each finds a surrogate/donor, the pair gets 10 breedings between the two. They also have the advantage of seeking out DIFFERENT donors/surrogates every time, allowing for a wider range of genes, colorations, edits, etc. In short- they can be considered loyal, and get the loyalty perk, while taking on multiple flings to reproduce.

♥ A polygamous situation has the same advantages as the above situation(s) times the number of partners involved in the romantic situation.

SO unless I'm misunderstanding the new rules or have missed something:

• If you have a fertile pair, you MUST breed ONLY within that pairing. You are limited to the genes in that pair. You can only ever have 5 breedings between the pair.
• If you have an infertile pair, you can breed with up to 5 different partners while still being considered part of a loyal 'lifemate' situation. You get more genetic diversity and the pair has 10 breedings available in between them.
• If you are in a polygamous situation, you can have 5 breedings per individual soquili times however many partners within the relationship community.

A solution could be that rather than giving us only 5 breedings per individual, that we completely get rid of breeding limitations all together. Keep monthly breeding limits or 'cool down' times to make it fair for those of us that are fortunate with the dice rolls or are fortunate enough to have a pair that appeals to colorist choice frequently. This way no one has to keep track of how many breedings are used, we don't have to worry if we've 'lost' a breeding in the past, and EVERY pairing situation has true equality when it comes to reproduction.

• Keep bonus baskets for elders.
• Keep bonus baskets for loyal romantic situations.
• We'd be able to get rid of one of the wishing star categories and perhaps open up more chances for non-fertile pairs to win a miracle baby.

Side note:
This is not a debate on the ethics, morals, or political opinions of what lifemate/lovemate situations are legitimate or ethical. This is just an observation that when it strictly comes to reproduction, the rule revamp has given an unfair disadvantage to certain romantic situations. The solution is to allow anyone to breed as many times, offering bonuses to those registered as being inside of a consenting romantic arrangement. Some of us prefer to keep things one way, some of us have wider comfort zones. There's no reason why anyone has to be at a disadvantage.  

[Samuel Carlin]

Just to point a couple of things out, from a non-staff perspective:

1) The breeding rules explicitly state that any and all maxed out Soquili (that is, a Soquili that has 100% in all stats) gets five breedings. It also states that that is in a lifemate, lovemate or fling type situation. There's no rule stating that you have to have all five breedings with the same mate for -any- Soquili.

This means that each "pair" of Soquili (where a pair means any two Soquili, not necessarily a mated couple) have the ability to have 10 separate gene donors.

ETA: If players choose to keep their pairs monogamous, then that is a choice they make. It's not a penalty. There is already, as you've mentioned, bonuses to lifemating, i.e. the potential for an extra basket in each breeding, but the choice to use all five breedings with the same mate does not, IMO, count as a penalty.

2) Regarding the incestuous addition in your pair categories, the rules also explicitly state that related Soquili -can not mate-. Period.

I don't feel, as a result, that anything needs to be changed.  

[vollyballrocks91]

As much as we all love breedings and of course I would love for my couples to have tons and tons of offspring, the limits are a good thing. They're put in place for fairness (at least how I see it) so there's not a couple who's on their 8th breeding whereas another hasn't gotten it once yet.

I get what you're saying with the surrogate thing but, let's look at this realistically. The chances of one couple having ten surrogate breedings is ridiculous. Plus, I don't think anyone is going to be trying THAT MANY times for one couple/surrogate.

The staff has been extremely generous with extending our limits to 4/5 slots and I think we should stick with that and be happy <3  

[Thalion]

The pairs can only get the basket bonus within a life mate situation, that's the point I'm making. If you enter into a life mate agreement, my understanding is that unless you are in a non-traditional relationship, you loose the basket bonus you gain in a life mate situation if your character flings with someone outside of the life mating.

I may be going on here-say but technically you could have a pair involved in incest that finds donors or surrogates. I am not sure if this romantic situation was included in life master revision or no. The point stands though .  

[ProphetOfProfit]

I for one agree with Thalion but with one amendment.

Limit the amount of breedings the newly approved kinda of couples can have to what normal couples can have.  

[Samuel Carlin]

So the trade off then would be ... you potentially get more offspring than a non-lifemated couple will ever manage.

I'm thus not sure what the concern is.

Taking Soquili who have not made it to Elder status:

Lifemated pair + 5 breedings = potentially 15 foals. Sure, they all come from the same genetic stock, but that's still a healthy-sized family.

Non-lifemated "pair" + 5 breedings = 10 foals. Greater genetic diversity, smaller family as an end result.

I must be missing something because I still don't see a life-mated or monogamous pair who chooses to use all five breedings with the same mate as being penalized.

As far as siblings using surrogates... I don't know about that. I suppose it might be possible. I don't know of anyone trying for that off the top of my head, but obvs I don't know all. smile  

[tefla]

Thalion

♥ A monogamous pair that cannot naturally reproduce (ie- mini/standard, sea/standard, mini-sea/mini-standard, incestuous, same-sex pairs, etc.) have 5 breedings per soquili involved.

Thalion,

Unless I'm mistaken ... Soquili frowns on the bolded relationship.  

[Andranis]

The incest thing aside(I hope that's not... Real...), I do see the point of the issue - People enjoy breeding their Soquili, they enjoy breeding their pets. That's part of Breedables. I've seen people win breedings repeatedly, several months in a row, because the dice love them(Something staff cannot help, I know). The issue I'm seeing with this is that a love mate pair can have UP to 24 offspring between them, up to 30 if they're both maxed out in stats. A life mate pair that is capable of breeding with each other, though, can have a maximum, if both Soquili are maxed out, of 15 offspring, not counting wishing star event. In the event that the owner(s) of the love mate pair get INCREDIBLY lucky with ALL their breedings, if there's no co-owners involved, the owner of partner 1 gets a basket, owner of partner 2 gets a basket, and owner of surrogate gets a basket(Unless they decide "Let's contest one," of course). So between the 4-5 breedings, EACH owner of the Soquili in the love mating gets 8-10 baskets, with or without co-owning, where as the owner(s) of a life mate couple get 4-5 baskets.

I do agree, the breeding limit should be removed. That, or something should be changed about the Love mating thing - One partner landing a breeding should count as a breeding landed for BOTH partners. Then it's fair for everybody, because life mate or love mate, they have the exact same number of breedings between them.  

[Thalion]

I dunno volley xD I know some people who are maxed out that would LOVE more breedings. I also know there are pairs out there that are active with both parties in flungs time and again. I think we should at least have the option to breed like crazy (if the odds are with us) or stay content at 5. The point is more that some pairs have the option to go for 10+ and others do not.  

[Thalion]

tefla

Thalion

♥ A monogamous pair that cannot naturally reproduce (ie- mini/standard, sea/standard, mini-sea/mini-standard, incestuous, same-sex pairs, etc.) have 5 breedings per soquili involved.

Thalion,

Unless I'm mistaken ... Soquili frowns on the bolded relationship.

I am aware. I also frown on it but I know there are those that do not and have tried this in the shop. What some frown on (myself more than others) some may see no problem with. I included it because it has been an issue in the past, not to say it is something that is or is not something the shop should allow.  

[Mewsings of An Angel]

Honestly, I don't see why you would limit them.
It is by choice that any Soquili chooses to be with another of the same sex. To limit them seem more unfair because of their choice than to allow the donor/surrogacy.
So what if it allows either of the pair to have their breedings separately.
There is reasoning behind the breedings having the limits and such to them, but to have MORE limits would just make it unnecessarily confusing.  

[Samuel Carlin]

Ah, I see what's going on.

Let's take the homosexual, lovemated pair who finds five different partners, each. They're not Elders. They are maxed out.

Each partner in the lovemating has the potential to make (with their fling) 10 foals.

So as a family unit, yeah, there is a potential for 20 foals in that family, assuming they all stay together, etc.

HOWEVER! Each partner in the lovemating is -still- only getting 5 breedings. Just like for ANY Soquili. They're not getting extra breedings. Yes, the couple may have more foals, ICly, but the breeding mechanic is no different than it is for lifemated, monogamous Soq.

5 breedings is 5 breedings is 5 breedings. I could have three lifemated couples, join them into a herd, max them out and get 45 foals. But that's still only with 5 breedings per Soq.


So. Still not seeing the issue.  

[Andranis]

I think what the point is, is that a love mate pairing(Say, Kalona/Seathie) has more breeding opportunities than a life mate pairing, so it seems... SKEWED.  

[Samuel Carlin]

Andranis

I think what the point is, is that a love mate pairing(Say, Kalona/Seathie) has more breeding opportunities than a life mate pairing, so it seems... SKEWED.

...but they don't.

Greater genetic diversity? Yes.

But the Kalona and the Seathi, individually, still only get 5 breedings each.  

[Mewsings of An Angel]

Literally as Sam said: 5 breedings is 5 breedings. It doesn't matter whether they're mated, or not, female or male, it is a set amount. In all sense of it, a lovemate couple is not technically together, so therefore are able to fling as if they were single. I honestly don't see why it should matter how MANY offspring they receive. That just seems greedy.