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Countess WishFire

PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 12:56 pm


George Tiller, an abortionist who has gained national prominence for performing late-term procedures and his ties to Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, was shot dead inside his Wichita church Sunday morning.

Dr. Tiller was one of a small number of doctors to perform abortions during a woman's third-trimester of pregnancy and was a frequent target of protesters.

A gunman shot Dr. Tiller, 67, at the Reformation Lutheran Church before noon Sunday; police were searching for a powder-blue 1993 Ford Taurus.

Senators vetting Mrs. Sebelius earlier this year questioned her ties to Dr. Tiller, who had donated money to her campaigns and had attended a reception with her at the Kansas governor's mansion when Mrs. Sebelius held that post. Pro-lifers criticizing the Sebelius nomination frequently made use of her ties to Dr. Tiller.

In 1993, a protester shot Dr. Tiller in both arms, though he recovered and continued providing abortions.

Pro-life groups quickly denounced the shooting Sunday afternoon.

"I am saddened to hear of the killing of George Tiller this morning," said the Rev. Frank Pavone, National Director of Priests for Life. "Whatever the motives, we at Priests for Life continue to insist on a culture in which violence is never seen as the solution to any problem."

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/may/31/abortion-doctor-tiller-shot-killed-kansas-church/
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 1:06 pm


This is not good for us pro-lifers. Now the choice nuts have more ammo! eek

Rosary16


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PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 1:52 pm


Rosary16
This is not good for us pro-lifers. Now the choice nuts have more ammo! eek
Only the nuts, and who needs them?

Smart Choicers will realize that this is no more indicative of Pro-Life behavior than guys forcing their girlfriends, or parents forcing their daughters, to have an abortion is indicative of Pro-Choice behaviors.
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 3:55 pm


Though killing is not the answer, I hope he was hit somewhere painful and felt his bleedout.

divineseraph


Rosary16

PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 6:33 pm


Is there such a thing as a smart choicer?
I just wanted Tiller to die from a heartattack or stroke, not assassinated.
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 7:05 pm


I was really shocked that he was shot, especially in a church. (not really surprised but the whole incident) Now being pro life, I have taken this really hard. I do a lot of debating on cafemom and bam this is been huge bashing from pro aborts. Now a lot of pro aborts don't agree with 2nd to 3rd trimester abortions and some think hes a hero. As pro lifer's we need to stand together and not let this get to us. We value all life born and unborn. We should still continue to fight to end abortion .. But anyhow.. I am hoping they find hes killer and be brought to justice. Murder isn't the answer to ending abortion, there are other ways.

Countess WishFire


lymelady
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PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 9:38 pm


^ That. It's not pro-life to kill people. Also it was really freaking stupid. Seriously. They've got the suspect in custody and I hope they prosecute to the full extent.

Anyone who knows me knows that I'm no fan of Tiller and I would not mind his practice being shut down because of its shady practices, but I wanted it done peacefully and through the courts, not violence. His poor family.

When Troy Newman is shocked and horrified by Tiller's death, it's bad. But still, my first thought when I heard the news was that Operation Rescue was probably where the killer got the information to know where to find Tiller. Seriously, Operation Rescue puts out all of this information on abortion providers and their private lives, they must have considered the possibility that someone twisted would be able to use it to commit violence. It'd be premature to put any blame on them, but it should at least show them how dangerous it is to put that information out there.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:35 am


lymelady
^ That. It's not pro-life to kill people. Also it was really freaking stupid. Seriously. They've got the suspect in custody and I hope they prosecute to the full extent.

Anyone who knows me knows that I'm no fan of Tiller and I would not mind his practice being shut down because of its shady practices, but I wanted it done peacefully and through the courts, not violence. His poor family.

When Troy Newman is shocked and horrified by Tiller's death, it's bad. But still, my first thought when I heard the news was that Operation Rescue was probably where the killer got the information to know where to find Tiller. Seriously, Operation Rescue puts out all of this information on abortion providers and their private lives, they must have considered the possibility that someone twisted would be able to use it to commit violence. It'd be premature to put any blame on them, but it should at least show them how dangerous it is to put that information out there.


I totally agree with ya.. I watched the news this morning about the man they had in custody.. I hope full justice is brought on.

Countess WishFire


Countess WishFire

PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:53 am


http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/01/kansas.doctor.killed.charges/index.html

(CNN) -- A 51-year-old man was in a Kansas jail Monday, charged with first-degree murder in the killing of a physician whose women's clinic frequently took center stage in the debate over abortion, authorities said.


Dr. George Tiller was one of the few U.S. physicians who performed late-term abortions.

1 of 2 Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed while serving as an usher at his Wichita, Kansas, church Sunday morning, according to police. Tiller was one of the few U.S. physicians who still performed late-term abortions and had survived a 1993 shooting outside his clinic.

Scott Roeder from the Kansas City, Kansas, area is being held without bond in the Sedgwick County Adult Detention Facility, according to the sheriff's office Web site. He is also charged with two counts of aggravated assault.

"This is a tragedy for the Tiller family. We feel so badly about that," Clarence Roeder, Scott's uncle, said in a statement provided to CNN affiliate KMBC. "That Scott would murder the doctor in the Lutheran Church. We are also Lutherans, and it adds a double touch of sadness and irony."

Roeder is expected to appear in court early this week, law enforcement officials said.

The attack drew condemnation from Tiller supporters, from some of those who tried to shut down his practice and from President Obama, who had urged Americans to seek "common ground" on the divisive issue just two weeks ago.

"However profound our differences as Americans over difficult issues such as abortion, they cannot be resolved by heinous acts of violence," Obama said in a statement issued by the White House.

The shooting prompted U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder to direct federal marshals to "offer protection to other appropriate people and facilities around the nation," according to a statement from the Department of Justice. Watch panel discuss ramifications of slaying

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Tiller was killed shortly after 10 a.m. Sunday. Police found him lying dead in the foyer of Reformation Lutheran Church, where he had been serving as an usher.

Witnesses provided a description of the gunman's car and a license plate number, said Wichita police spokesman Gordon Bassham. Police stopped a blue Ford Taurus matching the description about three hours later in Gardner, about 30 miles southwest of Kansas City, and arrested the driver.

"Other than the description the Wichita Police Department put out, we wouldn't have paid any particular attention to him. He was following all traffic laws and everything." said Lt. Mike Pfhannestiel of the Johnson County Sheriff's Office. "We didn't find a weapon on him. We did not have a weapon on him."

"We think we have the right person arrested," said Wichita police Detective Tom Stoltz. "We will investigate this suspect to the Nth degree -- his history, his family, his associates -- and we are just in the beginning stages of that." See what people are saying about Tiller's slaying »

Though the investigation is still under way, he said, "At this time we feel this is an act of an isolated individual."

Tiller had practiced medicine for nearly 40 years, said Peter Brownlie, president of the Kansas City-based regional Planned Parenthood office.

The doctor and his staff had been picketed for years, with some activists distributing leaflets around his neighborhood, Brownlie said. His clinic suffered serious damage from a bomb in the mid-1990s, and he was shot through both arms in 1993 by an anti-abortion activist who is now in federal prison. Watch Tiller describe the philosophy of his clinic in 1999 »

In a written statement issued through Tiller's lawyers, his family -- his wife, four children and 10 grandchildren -- said their loss "is also a loss for the city of Wichita and women across America."

No motive for the killing was immediately known. If Tiller's killing stemmed from his work, he would be the fourth U.S. physician killed over abortion since 1993. Leading anti-abortion groups condemned his shooting, emphasizing that they wanted to shut down Tiller's practice by legal means.

During the 1990s, three doctors who performed abortions were slain in high-profile cases.

In 1998, a sniper killed Dr. Barnett Slepian in his Amherst, New York, home. Anti-abortion activist James Kopp was later arrested in France and is serving life in prison.

In 1994, Dr. John Bayard Britton and a volunteer escort were shot and killed outside an abortion clinic in Pensacola, Florida. Paul Hill, a former minister, was convicted in the killings and executed in 2003.

And in 1993, another doctor, David Gunn, was shot to death outside another Pensacola clinic. His killer, Michael Griffin, is serving a life sentence.


In addition, a nurse at a Birmingham, Alabama, clinic was maimed and an off-duty police officer was killed in a 1998 bombing by Eric Rudolph, who included abortion among his list of anti-government grievances.

Rudolph admitted to that attack and three other bombings -- including the 1996 attack on the Olympic Games in Atlanta, Georgia -- and is serving life in prison.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:54 am


Sorry I didn't post here sooner about this; I've been keeping up with prolifeamerica.com (good site btw, though they could use a younger influence! I'll talk about them more in a sec) so I haven't been able to hop on here to discuss it.

I want to shake this idiot of a man and scream at him "Do you know what you've DONE!?" America had JUST polled as being more pro-life than pro-choice. People were JUST beginning to talk to the other side and really mend the chasm between us. Did you know that 33% of young people are 100% abortion as opposed to only 15% of over-35 adults? Go young people!!

But I'm absolutely terrified this moronic act of vigilantism will set us back 30 years. I think if you took another poll right now, those statistics would be aimed back towards pro-choice favor. Who wants to be associated with hypocritical nut cases?

Now, to mention prolifeamerica.com again... it's a forum dedicated solely to the debate, and there are some rather vulgar people on there. Despite this, I was surprised that only one of the extremists was happy about Tiller's death. And I thought that forum was full of extremists... so I cannot even believe the evil that must reign in the hearts of the truly neurotic people who would do things like this.

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divineseraph

PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:17 am


I'm noticing the media spin-machine at work. The glaze over what the "doctor" had done, putting him on the level of a simple abortionist- Third trimester abortion is heinous, and while I do not support murder, I see where the shooter was coming from. Actually, screw it, I may support murder in instances such as this where law is deaf dumb and blind. Blatant painful murder is unacceptable. Did you recoil in shock when Dahmer was beaten down, albeit illegally, for his crimes against humanity?

The spin the media is putting on this is quite epic, it would be like calling Hitler's suicide in his bunker as "Prolific youth leader and economic genius kills self due to lack of western support"- While technically true in all of the words, it's the part they omit that is the killer. So it goes, so it goes.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:32 am


darkpoetess7
"Whatever the motives, we at Priests for Life continue to insist on a culture in which violence is never seen as the solution to any problem."
This.

Ebania

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lymelady
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:27 pm


divineseraph
I'm noticing the media spin-machine at work. The glaze over what the "doctor" had done, putting him on the level of a simple abortionist- Third trimester abortion is heinous, and while I do not support murder, I see where the shooter was coming from. Actually, screw it, I may support murder in instances such as this where law is deaf dumb and blind. Blatant painful murder is unacceptable. Did you recoil in shock when Dahmer was beaten down, albeit illegally, for his crimes against humanity?

The spin the media is putting on this is quite epic, it would be like calling Hitler's suicide in his bunker as "Prolific youth leader and economic genius kills self due to lack of western support"- While technically true in all of the words, it's the part they omit that is the killer. So it goes, so it goes.
They're doing more than that, they're making him a martyr. Because let's face it, he is. I hope the shooter's happy that he's set back any progress that was being made.

It's more horrific in that during the third trimester there's evidence that not only can fetuses feel pain, but they can possibly feel it more acutely than adults because of a lack of myelin sheathing. But still, it's a life being taken either way.

I can emotionally understand the shooter. I cannot intellectually or emotionally support it in any way, though. A man is dead, killed in church with his family there, his family is without him, and ultimately the only thing this has done is given more fuel to the movement to suppress the pro-life movement.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:17 pm


divineseraph
I'm noticing the media spin-machine at work. The glaze over what the "doctor" had done, putting him on the level of a simple abortionist- Third trimester abortion is heinous, and while I do not support murder, I see where the shooter was coming from. Actually, screw it, I may support murder in instances such as this where law is deaf dumb and blind. Blatant painful murder is unacceptable. Did you recoil in shock when Dahmer was beaten down, albeit illegally, for his crimes against humanity?

The spin the media is putting on this is quite epic, it would be like calling Hitler's suicide in his bunker as "Prolific youth leader and economic genius kills self due to lack of western support"- While technically true in all of the words, it's the part they omit that is the killer. So it goes, so it goes.
You are the cancer that is killing the Pro-Life stance.

You forget that what the guy was doing was, unfortunately, legal. What happened was murder, plain and simple.

Dahmer had no excuse whatsoever. His being beaten down is unlikely to bring a tear to any eyes but his mother's. But Tiller was performing an operation that is currently legal, and probably believed that what he was doing was the right thing to do. He was not necessarily a bad man, even though he did bad things. The man who killed him was a bad man.

Other than that, what everyone else said. This isn't a blow to the Pro-Choice side, this isn't a victory for the Pro-Life side. What happened is going to hurt us, bad.

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divineseraph

PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:18 am


I.Am
divineseraph
I'm noticing the media spin-machine at work. The glaze over what the "doctor" had done, putting him on the level of a simple abortionist- Third trimester abortion is heinous, and while I do not support murder, I see where the shooter was coming from. Actually, screw it, I may support murder in instances such as this where law is deaf dumb and blind. Blatant painful murder is unacceptable. Did you recoil in shock when Dahmer was beaten down, albeit illegally, for his crimes against humanity?

The spin the media is putting on this is quite epic, it would be like calling Hitler's suicide in his bunker as "Prolific youth leader and economic genius kills self due to lack of western support"- While technically true in all of the words, it's the part they omit that is the killer. So it goes, so it goes.
You are the cancer that is killing the Pro-Life stance.

You forget that what the guy was doing was, unfortunately, legal. What happened was murder, plain and simple.

Dahmer had no excuse whatsoever. His being beaten down is unlikely to bring a tear to any eyes but his mother's. But Tiller was performing an operation that is currently legal, and probably believed that what he was doing was the right thing to do. He was not necessarily a bad man, even though he did bad things. The man who killed him was a bad man.

Other than that, what everyone else said. This isn't a blow to the Pro-Choice side, this isn't a victory for the Pro-Life side. What happened is going to hurt us, bad.


Law is irrelevant. Remember slavery? Not literally, of course, but remember it's history? Just because something is legal does not make it right. Just because something is illegal does not make it wrong. It just means that the humans at the time have given it a mortal, faulty analysis which does not necessarily meet the objective standard.

Murdering a full-term baby is something that should be punishable, and repeat offenders should be killed. A fetus at the third trimester could just as easily be removed alive. Therefore, the only difference is it's location. Practitioners of late-term abortion are committing a terrible crime, and while I mourn the fact that the media is spinning us into oblivion, I relish the idea of such a murderer getting his just deserts.

And the man who killed him did not believe he was doing good? And Hitler did not think he was doing good for the chosen Aryan race? And Dahmer didn't think he was, at least, doing nothing wrong? If it's a question of belief that something isn't wrong, then set the shooter free, he is just as right as Tiller.
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