How Do You Use Magic in Your Practice?

[Stahlsoldat]

Ah, a topic I can reply to! Alright, why not?

Yes, I'm a magic-user. As I've said before, I am an Eclectic Experimental, meaning I -focus- on using magic and seeing what can be done with it. Of course, I generally do not perform any sort of ritual "just because" (though when I have a sudden realization that "HEY, this might work, this might be interesting" I may). But small spells, incenses, energy work, etc. I commonly do, mostly to stay in practice.

Other than that, I am a healer. As I am big with titles, I use the title "The Good Doctor/Medicus Nox", as that is what I am like: A doctor. Just not your usual doctor. I perform magic for others a lot.

I am not against requesting assistance from spirits or deities, but I am not extremely fond of it. I prefer to stick with herbs, stones, and my own personal energy. That is enough for most of what I do, for it is usually something small-scale and for myself or someone else.

My morals are not extremely strict when it comes to magic. I do believe the threefold, but if there is good reason for me to do something that will negatively affect someone else, it will not stop me and I will do the best I can to try to protect myself from the consequences. I've yet to run into a situation where this was necessary, but if I do, I will not shy away from the darker side of Magic.

This is just me, of course. I'm probably going to end up with a lot of angry spirits after me. Counting "The One in the Garden", there already is one. Not sure whether it is human or not. But I know it doesn't like me. When I asked it what it wanted of my mother and myself, I got the answer "mutilate" via Bibliomancy. But that's a topic for another day. Danke und tschus.  

[`Blaise]

Can I get a strong philosophical/logical/theological rebuttal against this?

Practicing magic means one of five things.

1. Gods are weak.
Gods are not strong enough to make your life liveable, so you have to use magic to try to make things right.

2. Gods do not care.
If you simply praised the God/ess and strived to be a good person, doesn't s/he like you enough for that to make things work out for you? Love the planet, love yourself, love your Gods. Why magic? Magic seems like the Gods aren't taking care of you properly, so you have to go out of your way to make up for what the Gods aren't doing for you.

3. Faith is weak.
The relationship between you and your Gods is weak, so you have to use other means to change things for yourself. Or, you do not trust your Gods enough to make stuff work out, so you have to use magic to make sure that things get done.

4. Magic is arrogant.
So, let's assume magic is real, and works. Who/what gives one the right to manipulate energies? Just because something is available doesn't mean that it is okay for us to do it. Please cite the words of the God/ess that says that magic is okay, or use formal logic to justify the amoral aspect of practicing magic.

5. Magic is cowardly.
Suck it up and live it through by yourself. Pain builds character and faith. Just you and your Gods, nothing else. Total reliance on Gods is heavy trust.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

`Blaise

Can I get a strong philosophical/logical/theological rebuttal against this?

Sure you can. It won't be M&R worthy, but it'll be a response. If you want a really good response, go there. It will probably hurt, so be prepared.

Quote:

1. Gods are weak.
Gods are not strong enough to make your life liveable, so you have to use magic to try to make things right.

Laughable. If you're so pathetically weak as a person that you demand the gods make life perfect for you, then frankly I don't want to know you. Life isn't meant to be easy, and it would be totally boring if it was. The gods have lives too, you know. As if they'd spend all their time watching us. rolleyes The gods are strong. And they help those that help themselves. Thankfully, we have a tool so that we can do just that. Praise the gods!

What's that saying? Give a man a fish...

Quote:

2. Gods do not care.
If you simply praised the God/ess and strived to be a good person, doesn't s/he like you enough for that to make things work out for you? Love the planet, love yourself, love your Gods. Why magic? Magic seems like the Gods aren't taking care of you properly, so you have to go out of your way to make up for what the Gods aren't doing for you.

Again, this is pathetic and speaks of a person with no genitalia. We do not worship the gods so that the gods will give us everything we want. We worship them because we love them, and they love us, and for the friendship and alliances we form with them.

If you worship the gods just for the things they give you, you are not a particularly nice person. And a person who seems to feel entitled. There's a god on every side, you know, and there may be one against you as much as there is one for you. For good things to happen to us, often bad things must happen to someone else. You find $50? Awesome. But that $50 belonged to someone who now can't buy food for their kid. Sucks for them, and it's not like you can return it, but hey, praise the gods, am I right? because you're one lucky b*****d for finding that $50. Now personally, if the gods caught my attention and brought it to that $50, I would be perfectly happy with that. But I would really rather not think that the gods decided to reward me for being ever-so-good a worshipper and in return made some poor bugger lose $50 so that I could find it.

Talk to priests and priestesses and you'll find that, while their lives do have many blessings, they also have hardships. Following the gods is not easy. It is a difficult life being in service to a deity, and it's worth it for the relationship you have with the deity you serve, but it is not easy and you don't suddenly win the lottery for being a good little worshipper.

The gods do care, often, but the gods look at the world in a different way to how we look at the world. They do not experience what we experience, necessarily. If you became homeless, it would be a terrible hardship. The god you follow might see it as a liberation, a gift. Often you see the gift of a hardship or period of suffering after the fact. It doesn't make it any better, but you understand why the gods did not come to your aid in the way you expected.

Here's a lesson for free, taught to me by my good friend Loki: s**t happens. Hey, look! Something shiny!

Quote:

3. Faith is weak.
The relationship between you and your Gods is weak, so you have to use other means to change things for yourself. Or, you do not trust your Gods enough to make stuff work out, so you have to use magic to make sure that things get done.

See above.

Faith is great, blessings are wonderful, and I trust the gods to know what is right for me. I do not expect that what they think is right for me is necessarily what I want.

Quote:

4. Magic is arrogant.
So, let's assume magic is real, and works. Who/what gives one the right to manipulate energies? Just because something is available doesn't mean that it is okay for us to do it. Please cite the words of the God/ess that says that magic is okay, or use formal logic to justify the amoral aspect of practicing magic.

Which god or goddess?

I don't think you need to justify something if it's amoral. If it's amoral, you can do it simply because you wish to do it. I reckon you only need to justify something if it's immoral.

What gives me the right to manipulate energies? Well, what gives me the right to eat? To pick flowers? To burn fossil fuels? Technically when we do things like that, we're disturbing the world just as much, if not more, for the sake of.... smelling a pretty flower? Getting somewhere a bit faster?
Frankly there's a lot worse things we do every day. If we have the right to do those things - or at least if we act as if we do - why don't we have the right to use the energies within and around us? It doesn't seem to be a source we are "using up" in any sort of sense.

You want some reasons why? Alright. Right to defend oneself. Right to protect self, family, hearth, home.

Not to mention, for some people it's an essential element of ritual. If you're not doing it, you're not performing ritual correctly. This is true for Wicca and Neo-Wicca. It's true for me, as I like to bless and/or charge my ritual tools.

Quote:

5. Magic is cowardly.
Suck it up and live it through by yourself. Pain builds character and faith. Just you and your Gods, nothing else. Total reliance on Gods is heavy trust.

Total reliance on the gods is guaranteed to get you a BIG kick up the a**. I wholeheartedly warn against it. In fact, if you are of a faith related to magic and are suffering and so on instead of using magic, deciding to rely entirely on the gods, you may find them throwing more and more trouble in your way until you suck it up and learn your craft.

You seem to be equating magic entirely with spellcraft, which is exceedingly limited of you. I use magic every day but I rarely cast a spell. I'm sure many people here are the same way. Magic can, for many, be a bridge to the gods. For others it is an absolutely essential element of ritual and religion. For others it is a path to understanding of the self, a meditative craft based on introspection and personal growth.

Plus, Odinn does magic. Are you actually telling me that you consider Odinn to be cowardly? Because I have an axe and an army of Asatruar who would like to disagree with you.  

[AiRune]

It appears, Blaise, that you come from an theology that emphasizes suffering for your faith, much like sects of Buddhism and Christianity. Understand that many magic-users are not of that mind-set.

Personally, suffering is designed to be a wake-up call that something isn't right in your life, typically your state of mind. Refusal to change is weakness because the only that's guaranteed in life is change. My faith is that the powers that be will give me all the tools I need for growth so I can grow and eventually be of service to the community. Magic happens to be simply a tool that I use for self-improvement and to stabilize energies in my current area.

I agree with Sanguina-chan that the weakness lies in refusing to better yourself and your lot in life. Something good comes out of suffering when you expect everyone else to take your plight off your hands. Your life is your responsibility. It's arrogant to think that the world should stop for just you. We all have our problems to deal with. So unless you're will to put in some effort of some kind, don't expect much in return. Even when using magic. If you do a spell for a job, you still have to work on your resume and go job-hunting.

I hope that those weren't your actual viewpoints because you will be in for a nasty surprise. Suffering for your faith only works if you live in a monastery.  

[`Blaise]

I really do appreciate the replies.

I don't agree with what I had posted. I was looking for some rebuttal against what others may have to say about magic, because I had none of my own. I have a fence-sitting position on [ritual and spellwork] magic so I'm trying to hear from both sides.

Sanguina-chan, thank you for your blunt honesty. It was an enjoyable read, though I'm sure if I was on the receiving end I would have been hurt XD. Your reply was very truthful, and I really appreciate your answering each point.

Tashinada, thanks for posting and elaborating on suffering as an element for some religions.

I'm totally sorry if I sound noobish to an extreme degree. I promise I'm trying my best to not offend or be totally effing ignorant.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

`Blaise

Sanguina-chan, thank you for your blunt honesty. It was an enjoyable read, though I'm sure if I was on the receiving end I would have been hurt XD. Your reply was very truthful, and I really appreciate your answering each point.

I'm totally sorry if I sound noobish to an extreme degree. I promise I'm trying my best to not offend or be totally effing ignorant.

Ahahaha, you're very welcome xd Sorry if I was a bit over-blunt, the questions rather rubbed me the wrong way xd I don't think you ignorant, I was simply taken aback wink

It may interest you to know that there are some Hellenic recons who consider the practise of magic to be impious. I can't remember why precisely, but someone who reviewed a book on Hellenismos on amazon.com mentioned it in passing. She didn't elaborate (although the author apparently did).

Many people don't choose to involve magic in their practise. It's a personal choice. And it will still be there in the future if you decide it's not a part of your practise at present ^_^  

[Stahlsoldat]

Though I hate to post slightly off-topic, but I have a question that is somewhat related to the subject: Does anyone know where I could find information about the properties of stones and herbs that lists not only the positive effects and properties, but the negative as well? For I have a very hard time believing that stones and herbs can only be used to heal and to convenience. Danke.  

[Bad Quality Serena]

i normally use magic when i need it most. if someone will not leave me alone or harasses me or anything in that area,i put a warning pell on them in place of a curse. i use magic when i need to clear my mind and need help concentrating or am hurt or upset. i dont use it if i dont need it.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Stahlsoldat

Though I hate to post slightly off-topic, but I have a question that is somewhat related to the subject: Does anyone know where I could find information about the properties of stones and herbs that lists not only the positive effects and properties, but the negative as well? For I have a very hard time believing that stones and herbs can only be used to heal and to convenience. Danke.

This site might be useful to you; it's an herbal guide.
Have you ever tired using trial-and-error to see which plants seem to work better for what you might deem negative works?  

[Stahlsoldat]

I was thinking of that, but trial-and-error methods would be risky when dealing with what I am referring to. I'm starting to think I should leave things alone now anyway, for what I was intending may be too risky as well. Thank you for the site, though.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Stahlsoldat

I was thinking of that, but trial-and-error methods would be risky when dealing with what I am referring to. I'm starting to think I should leave things alone now anyway, for what I was intending may be too risky as well. Thank you for the site, though.

No problem.  

[x-Xx-Kiki-Coco-xX-x]

Does cleansing count as magic?  

[wiccan of the moon]

I don't actually use magic. I like to concentrate more on the elements around me. I'm more into like divination like stuff. You know, seeing the future. I don't know if i have the magic aspect of Wicca, to tell you the truth.