Wiccan initiation?

[Bad Quality Serena]

hm. what an interesting subject. ive been wondering about the initiation concept. i believe that if you believe that you are wiccan, then there is no wrong way to be wiccan. i had my own initiation. i simply sat in my room with my altar and told the lady and lord that am now a witch. i think that if you believe your a wiccan,then you are.

just my opinion. feel free to comment on it. ^^  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

serena304

i believe that if you believe that you are wiccan, then there is no wrong way to be wiccan.

Your belief on that would be incorrect.
One is Wiccan through initiation, becoming a priest/ess of the Lord and Lady of the Isles, and learning the Mysteries. Without initiation, being a priest/ess of the L&L of the Isles, or learning the Mysteries of Wicca, one is not Wiccan.
And since Wicca is orthopraxic (based on correct practice), if one is not adhering to the correct ritual structure, the ritual is being done "wrong" and is thus not Wiccan.

Quote:

i had my own initiation. i simply sat in my room with my altar and told the lady and lord that am now a witch.

Erm...did you not read any of the discussion about how self-initiation is impossible?
Initiation is performing rites that allow a person to be accepted into a group. If you are doing it yourself, then there is no group to be accepted into and is thus not an initiation.
A dedication to your gods is fine and well, but it is not an initiation.

Quote:

i think that if you believe your a wiccan,then you are.

It has been pointed out that "believing" you are Wiccan does not make one a Wiccan. Wicca has very specific guidelines and requirements. If you don't meet these then you're not Wiccan. It doesn't mean your practice is wrong or invalid; it just simply means it is not Wiccan 3nodding .  

[Starlock]

I love it how the Hard Gards strategically ignore any sort of facts or evidence that cast doubt on their position. Which is why some 95% of the time, I don't bother with them. What really bothers me though, is the failure to understand where fact ends and opinion begins.

For example, the premise that a religion may only be defined by its founder is NOT an objective nor neutral statement, but value-laden and opinionated. This opinion has, in fact, caused many religious splits throughout history between those who could be called 'traditionalists' and those who could be called 'progressivists.' To say one is more correct than the other is to miss the point entirely and paint a non-neutral, non-objective picture of the religion as a whole. It would be like covering only orthodox Judaism and ignoring the fact that reform Judaism exists... and denying that reform Jews have the right to the title "Jew."

Also, the belief that the word Wicca has ben 'misappropriated' by the mainstream is likewise a non-objective, non-neutral statement. The word 'misappropriated' in of itself carries the implication that what they are doing is wrong from the get go, which is an opinionated statement.

But I'm done with this topic. As I said from the very start, it's a controversial issue. And the controversy will still be around when we're old and grey.  

[too2sweet]

One last thing I am going to say, and then I am locking this for everyone's sanity. xd

It is correct to say misappropriation in relation to Wicca. The books that were originally published were to be used as Outer Court guides (and were not meant for the general public), while one was waiting to find a coven so that they could be properly initiated. They were not intended to be separate Traditions on their own, and in several cases I have heard mentioned that there was some form of "outer court initiation" given to even have access to some of them.

Ed Fitch in particular, gave his Outer Court materials to any HP/HPS who wanted to use them (with no copyright restrictions) and in turn many of the books that ended up being published early on were based on his materials. These materials were never meant to replace coven initiation and coven training, but many people who couldn't find covens near them, or who found the training to long/difficult, weren't found to be a proper person, etc... decided to use them to do just that. They formed their own covens and used that material to train others and/or simply decided to train themselves and practice solitary. Fitch was a Wiccan Elder - that people were using his material to learn from did not make them Wiccan (since they were still lacking the core mysteries), but they choose to claim that title anyways (misappropriating it) - even though they had not actually earned it through proper initiation. Which leads us to where we are today... gonk