Wiccan initiation?

[mayuri12]

Wow I feel stupid, well I guess since I dont know anything about this religion I should leave the guild crying .  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

mayuri12

Wow I feel stupid, well I guess since I dont know anything about this religion I should leave the guild crying .

No no no! You're fine 3nodding .
I would say to stick around the guild; it's a great place to learn.

And really, with as much misinformation as there is out there with the term "Wicca" slapped on it, it's not surprising that so many people are misinformed or at the very least confused about it.  

[mayuri12]

But Idk where to even start learning because no one has really guided me in learning, and I cant be initiated into wicca by anyone i know so idk what to do. sweatdrop  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

mayuri12

But Idk where to even start learning because no one has really guided me in learning, and I cant be initiated into wicca by anyone i know so idk what to do. sweatdrop

Amber and Jet is a Yahoo! Group and mailing list. It is a good place to start with.

It's also advisable to read the works of Gerald Gardner.
Witchcraft Today
The Meaning of Witchcraft

Give me a few minutes and I can try to dig up a massive reading list that is given from an Alexandrian HPS that hangs around Gaia.  

[Stahlsoldat]

Mayuril: Also keep in mind that you do not HAVE to be Wiccan to be in this guild. I'm definitely not. There are many paths to consider other than Wicca and this may be a good place to begin learning about magic and paganism in general. No need to quit. Just look and learn.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Ah okay, here we are.
This is the reading list recommended by Scorplett.

Author: Scorplett
Title: My Suggested Reading list

WICCA ORIENTED AND BY REAL WICCAN AUTHORS
The Alex Sanders Lectures – Alex Sanders
Witchcraft Today – Gerald Gardner
The Meaning of Witchcraft – Gerald Gardner
A Witches Bible (or ‘What Witches Do and Eight Sabbat’s for Witches) – Stewart Farrar
Wicca- The Old in the New Age – Vivienne Crowley
Charge of the Goddess - Doreen Valiente
Circle of Fire – Sorita D'Este
Lid off the Cauldron – Patricia Crowther
Rebirth of Witchcraft – Doreen Valiente
Dancing with Witches – Lois Bourne
Religion Without Beliefs – Fred Lammond


NEO-PAGANISM AND ECLECTIC WITCHCRAFT
Witchcraft for Tomorrow – Doreen Valiente
Witchcrafting – Phillis Currot
Elements of Ritual – Deborah Lipp
Spiral Dance – Starhawk
Drawing Down the Moon – Margot Adler
Magical Rites from the Crystal Well - Ed Fitch
Coven Craft: Witchcraft for Three or More - Amber K
Ethics and the Craft - John J. Coughlin
The Truth About Witchcraft - Hanz Holzer
The Paganism Reader - Chas Clifton

TRADITIONAL WITCHCRAFT
Mastering Witchcraft – Paul Huson
Conversations with a Witch – Lois Bourne
The Forge of Tubal Cain - Ann Finnin
The Crooked Path Journal (Various Contributors)
Hedge Rider - Eric de Vries
Sorgitzak: Old Forest Craft - Veronica Cummer


ACADEMIC HISTORIES OF WICCA AND WITCHCRAFT
Triumph of The Moon – Ronald Hutton
Wiccan Roots: Gerald Gardner and the Modern Witchcraft Revival (also as: Gerald Gardner and the Cauldron of Inspiration: An Investigation into the Sources of Gardnerian Witchcraft)– Philip Heselton
Her Hidden Children: The Rise of Wicca And Paganism in America - Chas S. Clifton
The Pickengill Papers-The Origin of the Gardnerian Craft - W.E. Liddell
WITCHCRAFT AND MAGIC IN EUROPE: (a 6 Volume series), edited by Bengt Ankarloo and Stuart Clark
Vol 1 Biblical and Pagan Societies
Vol 2 Ancient Greece and Rome
Vol 3 The Middle Ages
Vol 4 The Period of the Witch Trials
Vol 5 The 18th & 19th Centuries
Vol 6 The 20th Century
Early Modern Witches: Witchcraft Cases in Contemporary Writing Edited by Marion Gibson

HISTORICAL WITCHCRAFT TEXTS
Malleaus Mallifacarum
The White Goddess – Graves
The new Golden Bough – Frazer
Aradia: Gospel of the Witches – Leyland
A Witchcult in Western Europe – Murray

REFERANCE TEXTS
ABC of Witchcraft – Doreen Valiente
The Witches God – Farrar
The Witches Goddess – Farrar
Spells to Change Your Life - Lois Bourne
Spells and how they work – Farrar

PSYCHOLOGY TEXTS (i.e Lots of Jung!)
Man and His Symbols – Carl Jung
The Undiscovered Self - Carl G. Jung
The Archetypes and The Collective Unconscious - Carl G. Jung
Synchronicity: An Acausal Connecting Principle - Carl G. Jung
Psychology and Religion (The Terry Lectures Series) - Carl G. Jung

BIOGRAPHIES
King of the Witches – June Johns
Fire Child: The Life & Magic of Maxine Sanders 'Witch Queen' - Maxine Sanders
Fifty Years of Wicca – Frederic Lammond
Diary of a Witch - Sybil Leek
Gerald Gardner: Witch - Jack L Bracelin
High Priestess – Patricia Crowther
Witch Amongst Us – Lois Bourne
Witches Speak – Aronld and Patricia Crowther [RARE BOOK]

CEREMONIAL MAGICK AND OCCULT/MYSTICISM TEXTS
Magick in theory and practice – Crowley
The Kabbalah unveiled – Mathers
The Tree of Life: An Illustrated Study in Magic - Israel Regardie
The Training & Work of an Initiate - Dion Fortune

FICTION
Sea Priestess - Dion Fortune
High Magic’s Aid – Scire (Gerald Gardner)
Witches Were For Hanging (Paperback) FICTION – Patricia Crowther


OPEN SOURCE
There are a fair few books that are available open source if you don't mind reading off a computer screen! Some of them might be a little heavy going for the beginner, but they are all classic texts on Wicca and Witchcraft

The Golden Bough
by Sir James George Frazer
http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/frazer/index.htm

The Witch-Cult in Western Europe
by Margaret Alice Murray
http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/wcwe/index.htm

Aradia; Gospel of the Witches
by Charles G. Leland
http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/aradia/index.htm


Etruscan Roman Remains in Popular Tradition
by Charles Godfrey Leland
http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/err/index.htm

Letters on Demonology and Witchcraft
by Sir Walter Scott
http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/scott/index.htm

The Sorceress (La Sorcière) by Jules Michelet
translation by Afred Richard Allinson
http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/sor/index.htm

Witchcraft Today (PDF) - by Gerald Gardner
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wisewoman/WiccaWitchcraftToday.pdf

The Meaning of Witchcraft - Gerald Gardner
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wisewoman/TheMeaningofWitchcraft.doc

High Magics Aid - A 'fictional' book by Gerald Gardner
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wisewoman/HighMagicsAid.doc

Gerald Gardner: Witch - attributed to Jack Bracelin but actually written by Idries Shah
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wisewoman/GeraldGardnerWitch[1].rtf

God of the Witches (PDF) - by Dr Margaret Murray,
http://www.thewica.co.uk/godwitch.pdf

The following are some rare and out of print books by the Crowthers.

The Secrets of Ancient Witchcraft With the Witches Tarot by Arnold Crowther (Hardcover - Jun 1974)

Witchcraft in Yorkshire by Patricia Crowther (Unknown Binding - 1973)

From Stagecraft to Witchcraft: The Early Years of a High Priestess by Patricia Crowther

The Zodiac Experience: Initiation Through the Twelve Signs – Patricia Crowther  

[mayuri12]

Stahlsoldat

Mayuril: Also keep in mind that you do not HAVE to be Wiccan to be in this guild. I'm definitely not. There are many paths to consider other than Wicca and this may be a good place to begin learning about magic and paganism in general. No need to quit. Just look and learn.

Oh ok, well Idk where to begin. I have been wrongly informed about Wicca and idk anything about Paganism, I have heard of it but no ones really shed light on it to me. Im open to learning it all but idk where to start.  

[mayuri12]

Ultraviolett1127

Ah okay, here we are.
This is the reading list recommended by Scorplett.

Author: Scorplett
Title: My Suggested Reading list

WICCA ORIENTED AND BY REAL WICCAN AUTHORS
The Alex Sanders Lectures – Alex Sanders
Witchcraft Today – Gerald Gardner
The Meaning of Witchcraft – Gerald Gardner
A Witches Bible (or ‘What Witches Do and Eight Sabbat’s for Witches) – Stewart Farrar
Wicca- The Old in the New Age – Vivienne Crowley
Charge of the Goddess - Doreen Valiente
Circle of Fire – Sorita D'Este
Lid off the Cauldron – Patricia Crowther
Rebirth of Witchcraft – Doreen Valiente
Dancing with Witches – Lois Bourne
Religion Without Beliefs – Fred Lammond


NEO-PAGANISM AND ECLECTIC WITCHCRAFT
Witchcraft for Tomorrow – Doreen Valiente
Witchcrafting – Phillis Currot
Elements of Ritual – Deborah Lipp
Spiral Dance – Starhawk
Drawing Down the Moon – Margot Adler
Magical Rites from the Crystal Well - Ed Fitch
Coven Craft: Witchcraft for Three or More - Amber K
Ethics and the Craft - John J. Coughlin
The Truth About Witchcraft - Hanz Holzer
The Paganism Reader - Chas Clifton

TRADITIONAL WITCHCRAFT
Mastering Witchcraft – Paul Huson
Conversations with a Witch – Lois Bourne
The Forge of Tubal Cain - Ann Finnin
The Crooked Path Journal (Various Contributors)
Hedge Rider - Eric de Vries
Sorgitzak: Old Forest Craft - Veronica Cummer


ACADEMIC HISTORIES OF WICCA AND WITCHCRAFT
Triumph of The Moon – Ronald Hutton
Wiccan Roots: Gerald Gardner and the Modern Witchcraft Revival (also as: Gerald Gardner and the Cauldron of Inspiration: An Investigation into the Sources of Gardnerian Witchcraft)– Philip Heselton
Her Hidden Children: The Rise of Wicca And Paganism in America - Chas S. Clifton
The Pickengill Papers-The Origin of the Gardnerian Craft - W.E. Liddell
WITCHCRAFT AND MAGIC IN EUROPE: (a 6 Volume series), edited by Bengt Ankarloo and Stuart Clark
Vol 1 Biblical and Pagan Societies
Vol 2 Ancient Greece and Rome
Vol 3 The Middle Ages
Vol 4 The Period of the Witch Trials
Vol 5 The 18th & 19th Centuries
Vol 6 The 20th Century
Early Modern Witches: Witchcraft Cases in Contemporary Writing Edited by Marion Gibson

HISTORICAL WITCHCRAFT TEXTS
Malleaus Mallifacarum
The White Goddess – Graves
The new Golden Bough – Frazer
Aradia: Gospel of the Witches – Leyland
A Witchcult in Western Europe – Murray

REFERANCE TEXTS
ABC of Witchcraft – Doreen Valiente
The Witches God – Farrar
The Witches Goddess – Farrar
Spells to Change Your Life - Lois Bourne
Spells and how they work – Farrar

PSYCHOLOGY TEXTS (i.e Lots of Jung!)
Man and His Symbols – Carl Jung
The Undiscovered Self - Carl G. Jung
The Archetypes and The Collective Unconscious - Carl G. Jung
Synchronicity: An Acausal Connecting Principle - Carl G. Jung
Psychology and Religion (The Terry Lectures Series) - Carl G. Jung

BIOGRAPHIES
King of the Witches – June Johns
Fire Child: The Life & Magic of Maxine Sanders 'Witch Queen' - Maxine Sanders
Fifty Years of Wicca – Frederic Lammond
Diary of a Witch - Sybil Leek
Gerald Gardner: Witch - Jack L Bracelin
High Priestess – Patricia Crowther
Witch Amongst Us – Lois Bourne
Witches Speak – Aronld and Patricia Crowther [RARE BOOK]

CEREMONIAL MAGICK AND OCCULT/MYSTICISM TEXTS
Magick in theory and practice – Crowley
The Kabbalah unveiled – Mathers
The Tree of Life: An Illustrated Study in Magic - Israel Regardie
The Training & Work of an Initiate - Dion Fortune

FICTION
Sea Priestess - Dion Fortune
High Magic’s Aid – Scire (Gerald Gardner)
Witches Were For Hanging (Paperback) FICTION – Patricia Crowther


OPEN SOURCE
There are a fair few books that are available open source if you don't mind reading off a computer screen! Some of them might be a little heavy going for the beginner, but they are all classic texts on Wicca and Witchcraft

The Golden Bough
by Sir James George Frazer
http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/frazer/index.htm

The Witch-Cult in Western Europe
by Margaret Alice Murray
http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/wcwe/index.htm

Aradia; Gospel of the Witches
by Charles G. Leland
http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/aradia/index.htm


Etruscan Roman Remains in Popular Tradition
by Charles Godfrey Leland
http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/err/index.htm

Letters on Demonology and Witchcraft
by Sir Walter Scott
http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/scott/index.htm

The Sorceress (La Sorcière) by Jules Michelet
translation by Afred Richard Allinson
http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/sor/index.htm

Witchcraft Today (PDF) - by Gerald Gardner
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wisewoman/WiccaWitchcraftToday.pdf

The Meaning of Witchcraft - Gerald Gardner
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wisewoman/TheMeaningofWitchcraft.doc

High Magics Aid - A 'fictional' book by Gerald Gardner
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wisewoman/HighMagicsAid.doc

Gerald Gardner: Witch - attributed to Jack Bracelin but actually written by Idries Shah
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wisewoman/GeraldGardnerWitch[1].rtf

God of the Witches (PDF) - by Dr Margaret Murray,
http://www.thewica.co.uk/godwitch.pdf

The following are some rare and out of print books by the Crowthers.

The Secrets of Ancient Witchcraft With the Witches Tarot by Arnold Crowther (Hardcover - Jun 1974)

Witchcraft in Yorkshire by Patricia Crowther (Unknown Binding - 1973)

From Stagecraft to Witchcraft: The Early Years of a High Priestess by Patricia Crowther

The Zodiac Experience: Initiation Through the Twelve Signs – Patricia Crowther

Wow I have alot of reading to do xd , Do i subscribe to Amber and Jet  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

mayuri12

Oh ok, well Idk where to begin. I have been wrongly informed about Wicca and idk anything about Paganism, I have heard of it but no ones really shed light on it to me. Im open to learning it all but idk where to start.

Well, Wicca is a Pagan religion...

Paganism doesn't refer to one specific religion; rather it is an umbrella term and there are many religions that fall under it (anything that isn't Christianity, Islam, or Judaism is considered Pagan). So when someone says "I want to know about the Pagan religion" it's an impossible question to answer. Pagan faiths can vary a lot and really the only thing they have in common is the fact that they don't worship the Abrahamic god.

And yes, you have to subscribe and become a member of Amber and Jet to get in and read 3nodding .  

[mayuri12]

Ah I see, that clears some much up. My computer wont let me T T but thank you for helping me so much. xd  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

mayuri12

Ah I see, that clears some much up. My computer wont let me T T but thank you for helping me so much. xd

No problem hon; don't be afraid to ask questions 3nodding .  

[mayuri12]

Ultraviolett1127

mayuri12

Ah I see, that clears some much up. My computer wont let me T T but thank you for helping me so much. xd

No problem hon; don't be afraid to ask questions 3nodding .

Ok, I just hope that I learn alot and come closer to understanding such a fascinating religion.  

[Starlock]

Ultraviolett1127

Starlock

Ultra, do not presume to 'correct' my post when the alleged 'corrections' are as equally in denial of reality as you claim my post is.

How are they in "denial" of reality?
Because the corrections don't take into account all of the stupid teens who are misappropriating a term they have no right to? You'll have to forgive me if I consider them to be completely dishonest and in denial.

The perspective from the Gardner-thumping traditionalists is simply neither objective nor neutral with respect to the subject of Wicca. If nothing else, it ignores a fundamental reality of the English language - that words are defined based on popular usage - whether you like it or not. Words can, and do, have multiple meanings, both generalized and specialized. This means that the Gardner-thumping definition is perfectly correct in some contexts while the popularized one is perfectly correct in others. It isn't about 'giving in' to the pseudo-strawman fluffy bunny teenagers. The label Wicca has changed to be used to apply to a broader range of practices than simply Gardnerian Wicca. That's the reality. It's certainly the reality I see the majority of Neopagans and academics alike conceding to.

There's an interesting history behind how this transition occurred that I never seem to see the M&R parrots talking about. And *gasp* it actually did come from initiated Gardnerian Wiccans of all things! Here's a suggestion for all of you hardcore Gardner-thumping traditionalists. Do yourself a favor and read Chas Clifton's "Her Hidden Children." Don't buy into some party line sold to you by a bunch of kinds on the internet whose true identities and qualifications you can't know with certitude.

Also understand that part of the controversy around here comes from the fact that Gaia Online is an international forum. British Wiccans are going to have a very different perspective than American Wiccans. BTWs will tend to look down upon Wicca's transformation in America. Hell, in general BTW and traditional Wicca in America fuss and gripe with each other about lineage.

In the long run, I honestly find myself asking: who the *bleep* cares?
Isn't the actual spiritual substance what's important?

To my mind, yes - which is why the vast majority of the time I don't involve myself in this silly argument. I know I - and everyone here - is free to think for themselves and come to their own conclusions.

So do your OWN research, think for YOURSELF, and come to your own conclusions.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Starlock

The perspective from the Gardner-thumping traditionalists is simply neither objective nor neutral with respect to the subject of Wicca.

How is it not objective? They are following the tenants of the faith as they are set down by the founder! If they were so inclined to not follow said tenants, they would not have bothered with the faith.
Why should they be neutral when their tradition is being raped-til-it's-glamorous? If someone is stealing my identity, I sure as Hel am not going to remain neutral.

Quote:

If nothing else, it ignores a fundamental reality of the English language - that words are defined based on popular usage - whether you like it or not.

No, they are not.
And it certainly does not make it right when society attempts to re-define a word.
In fact, when dealing with a closed tradition, society at large has no business nor authority to try to re-define words. See for example the usage of the word "druid."

Quote:

Words can, and do, have multiple meanings, both generalized and specialized. This means that the Gardner-thumping definition is perfectly correct in some contexts while the popularized one is perfectly correct in others.

Erm, the Gardner definition pretty much excludes this mystery "popular" definition you keep talking about.
Wicca is a priesthood to the Lord and Lady of the Isles. "Wicca" does not even know those deities, much less being a priesthood dedicated to them. If you are not a priest or priestess to the Lord and Lady of the Isles, you are not Wiccan.
Wicca is orthopraxic. "Wicca" is more of an orthodoxy. When a practice does not follow the correct ritual structure that makes Wicca, the practice ceases to be Wicca. Seeing as how "Wicca" does not have the correct ritual structure, it is by definition not Wicca.
Wicca has specific Mysteries that are experienced in the religion. "Wicca" does not have these specific Mysteries.

Quote:

It isn't about 'giving in' to the pseudo-strawman fluffy bunny teenagers.

Really? Because aside from a few adults, those are the ones I see bitching about not being able to call themselves Wiccan when they very obviously do not meet the requirements for the title.

Quote:

The label Wicca has changed to be used to apply to a broader range of practices than simply Gardnerian Wicca.

No, it has not.
It has been misappropriated.
Do you understand what a closed culture/tradition is and why people on the outside of that tradition are not eligible to make changes to that tradition?
Unless this change of what Wicca means has come from inside the tradition, from people who are initiates and are properly considered Wiccan, changes to the word don't mean s**t.

Quote:

That's the reality. It's certainly the reality I see the majority of Neopagans and academics alike conceding to.

See my above point. Unless these said Neo-pagans and academics are initiates of Wicca, they have no authority to redefine the word or practice. It doesn't matter how many of them group up and say Wicca is an open tradition that applies to anyone who wants it.

Quote:

There's an interesting history behind how this transition occurred that I never seem to see the M&R parrots talking about. And *gasp* it actually did come from initiated Gardnerian Wiccans of all things! Here's a suggestion for all of you hardcore Gardner-thumping traditionalists. Do yourself a favor and read Chas Clifton's "Her Hidden Children." Don't buy into some party line sold to you by a bunch of kinds on the internet whose true identities and qualifications you can't know with certitude.

-gasp!- I have a vouch that says Clifton is not an initiated Gardnerian Wiccan, so unless you can provide me with a valid lineage for him, his book and subsequent input that Wicca has changed in meaning also holds no water.

And I can find a vouch for scorplett's and Morgandria's lineage if I ask them to name it and ask the appropriate elders. Don't be stupid. They're both older than you, and are not "a bunch of kids" on the internet. Their qualifications on the subject matter can be verified. And the information that non-initiates of the M&R speak has not been spoken out against by known initiates of Wicca as incorrect or erroneous either. Which is more than I can say for your fallacy-ridden argument.

Quote:

Also understand that part of the controversy around here comes from the fact that Gaia Online is an international forum. British Wiccans are going to have a very different perspective than American Wiccans. BTWs will tend to look down upon Wicca's transformation in America. Hell, in general BTW and traditional Wicca in America fuss and gripe with each other about lineage.

I'm sorry, are you suggesting that BTW and traditional Wicca are two different things?
Because that would be pretty dumb.
Hel, I know of a Wiccan in Canada who, save for differences in specific traditions, tends to agree very much with the Wiccan in Ireland! Or do you still consider that those big bad foreigners picking on the pweshush American Wiccans?

And I have certainly heard enough of that "We're in America and can do whatever we want with traditions and cultures" bullshit today stare .

Quote:

In the long run, I honestly find myself asking: who the *bleep* cares?

Um, actual Wiccans who have worked hard to earn their degrees?
I know, why the ******** should they care? We all know that dedication and hard work are SO overrated in a religion where popular society tells you that you can pass off as something you're not when you can read a book and declare it so!

Quote:

Isn't the actual spiritual substance what's important?

In Wicca, practice is the most important. Beliefs and such stem from practicing in the correct form.
So, no.

Quote:

To my mind, yes -

I think we've established that Starlock's mind =|= valid source on Wicca.

Quote:

which is why the vast majority of the time I don't involve myself in this silly argument.

Which totally explains why you're still posting, amirite?
To reply to this post means that you are indeed involving yourself in this "silly argument" and thus makes you a liar.

Quote:

I know I - and everyone here - is free to think for themselves and come to their own conclusions.

You are most certainly free to think for yourself. And I am most certainly free to correct you and prove you wrong when you are indeed wrong.

Conclusions are not exempt from being scrutinized.

Quote:

So do your OWN research, think for YOURSELF, and come to your own conclusions.

I have.
And I do.
And my conclusion is that Wicca is an oath-bound, fertility-based witch-cult that is comprised solely of clergy to the Lord and Lady of the Isles. It is orthopraxic in nature and by that, changes to the practice of Wicca renders a practice non-Wiccan. To not meet any of these requirements, which rely very heavily on each other, makes a person not Wiccan and their practice non-Wiccan.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

Starlock

If nothing else, it ignores a fundamental reality of the English language - that words are defined based on popular usage - whether you like it or not.

You are incorrect. The English Language is not what the general masses say it is. For which, by the way, the entire English-speaking world should be thankful.

"Exquisite" does NOT MEAN DELICIOUS, despite what the nearest dictionary might tell you. It means INTENSE. That's how you can have "exquisite pain". Intense, perfect, the epitome of what it is meant to be. That's why food can be exquisite... but it does not mean delicious. It means it is exactly what it is meant to be. It consumes the senses.

And yet people think it means delicious. They take this absolutely beautiful word and turn it into a ******** SYNONYM. This may surprise some of you in the audience, but most words labelled "synonyms" actually have subtle nuances of meaning so that they cannot actually be used really interchangeably. A vase that is exquisite is beautiful and perfect and pleasing, it is all those things, but none of those things on its own means "exquisite".

I love language, and I get really ******** pissed off when ignorant misunderstandings are perpetuated and spread to the point where the Great Unwashed seem to think that that's actually what it means. That doesn't mean they're right. It means they're uneducated.

And words do change their meaning, over long periods of time. We know this. Look at "prove". It used to mean something similar to "test". So the phrase "the exception proves the rule" really means that it shakes the rule up, causes us to look at it again, tests it, examines it. It used to make sense. Now it no longer makes sense.

Still, when we trace words through, when we look at etymology, words don't change their meanings all that much or too often. They change in sound as much as they change in meaning.

Slang, of course, does not count. Slang is wonderfully entertaining but is not, shall we say, "official" language. English does not have a group of people keeping the language pure as the French do, and in some ways this is good, but in others it promotes ignorance and foolishness. It means we end up with people like Robin Artisson who needs to be beaten to death with his goddamn thesaurus. You can't use slang in formal documents - at least, you shouldn't.

Oh, and by the way? "Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I shall not put." KTHXBAI.