Feel that pro-life love!

[ottery]

We've got a new abortion thread, people!

Dark Lord Drake

I'm pro-life.

I consider the child to be equal to a person in value. Therefore I think it shouldn't be killed except for well justified reasons. I would consider those reasons to be either out of mercy if you know it's bound to die, or to save the mother's life.

While some might say that that view is just subjective, I look at other instances in which some people might disagree over people's lives and do we care that our views are subjective? The KKK would disagree on the value of a black person's life, but do we care? No. I would say the severity of the issue, at least from the view that it is equal to a person, is one which doesn't allow for compromise as evidenced in other cases where a group ones to treat another as lesser.

Further I look at all our laws. Are any of them solely based on objective truths? I would say, no that they're not as there is no objective thing we 'should' do.

Apparently, feti can be compared to black people for their suffering. Way to be an idiot, and belittle the real sufferings of others, guy. stressed  

[pidgezero_one]

pro-lifers love minorities when they can use them out of context rolleyes  

[crystal_pepzi]

Dallas morning news

Quote:

Threat against Dallas abortion clinic leads to arrest of SMU law grad

06:01 PM CDT on Monday, April 5, 2010

By JASON TRAHAN / The Dallas Morning News

A 27-year-old law school graduate from Plano is facing federal charges accusing him of threatening to use deadly force to prevent an abortion at a Dallas women’s clinic.

On Saturday afternoon, FBI agents arrested Erlyndon Joseph Lo at his home in the 3500 block of Nancy Court. He made an initial appearance before a federal judge today in Plano, officials there said.

On Friday morning, Lo went to the Plano federal courthouse and filed a court document saying that at noon that day, he was planning to go to the Southwestern Women’s Surgery Center in the 8600 block of Greenville Avenue in Dallas and "use deadly force to defend the innocent life of another human being,” according to court documents.

The FBI was informed and, because of the specific nature of the threats, took immediate action to find Lo and arrest him.

"We won’t tolerate threats to clinics,” said Mark White, spokesman for the Dallas FBI. "We acted swiftly to ensure that no one was injured and that no act of violence actually did take place.”

Agents say that about three weeks earlier, a man matching Lo’s description went to the Greenville Avenue clinic with a receipt, claiming that he wanted to find out whether his wife had an abortion. Employees told the man that they could not give out any information about services or even whether a particular person was a patient.

About the same time, on March 18, Lo filed a lawsuit against the U.S. Supreme Court seeking to outlaw abortion. He hand-wrote the complaint on a form and filed it himself at the Plano clerk’s office, acting as his own lawyer.

Lo’s odd behavior during his visits to the clerk’s office did not go unnoticed.

"During these visits, Lo exhibited erratic behavior including raising his voice at members of the clerk's office, obsessively washing his hands in the public restroom and sitting in a court witness room in the dark without authorization to enter the room,” the FBI criminal complaint says.

Lo attended the University of Texas at Dallas from 2000 to 2004, earning a bachelor's in business administration degree, officials there said. He graduated from Southern Methodist University law school in May 2007, university officials said.

Lo was an unpaid clerk in the Fort Worth federal bankruptcy court in June and July 2006, clerk Tiwana Marshall said.

"There were no incidents while he was here,” she said.

 

[PhaedraMcSpiffy]

Hey, I just made a thread about that guy!
http://www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?t=18871463
He's said some pretty bizarre things, too.  

[Jaaten Syric]

I know I'm by no means the only PZ addict here, but I felt someone ought to promote this video for the others who aren't. I'm normally not a huge fan of protest free verse but this is an exception. I wish I had the ability to express my disgust at lifers' inability to take 'responsibility' for the lives they create (and the ones they destroy) in the name of 'the unborn', and for their sick moralizing to and legally mandated assault of women as this Ms. Zuniga here. Watch it, rate it, comment on it and help express our contempt for the Oklahoma lawmakers that spawned this poem.  

[PhaedraMcSpiffy]

I suppose that this one needscontext. Regular ED pro-lifer Le Veuve Zin suggested that women who don't want to get pregnant abstain from vaginal sex unless they are menstruating. I pointed out that this is essentially the "just keep your legs closed" argument in a very poor disguise. Women still don't get to have vaginal sex, but you don't come off quite so harsh as people who say they should be totally celibate. The end result is still the same: you don't get to have the sex you want.

Zin's reply:

Quote:

And I don't get to drive the way I like, keep all the money I earn, or post tubgirl in this thread. Life sucks. qq moar.

...It almost made me cry. I can't stand it when they ******** laugh about the fact that they're trying to control our sex lives.

Read back a bit more if you wanna see her say that forcing someone to stay pregnant isn't forced pregnancy. stare  

[Jaaten Syric]

PhaedraMcSpiffy

I suppose that this one needscontext. Regular ED pro-lifer Le Veuve Zin suggested that women who don't want to get pregnant abstain from vaginal sex unless they are menstruating. I pointed out that this is essentially the "just keep your legs closed" argument in a very poor disguise. Women still don't get to have vaginal sex, but you don't come off quite so harsh as people who say they should be totally celibate. The end result is still the same: you don't get to have the sex you want.

Zin's reply:

Quote:

And I don't get to drive the way I like, keep all the money I earn, or post tubgirl in this thread. Life sucks. qq moar.

...It almost made me cry. I can't stand it when they ******** laugh about the fact that they're trying to control our sex lives.

Read back a bit more if you wanna see her say that forcing someone to stay pregnant isn't forced pregnancy. stare

The sad thing is that, really until a year ago (or even less) Zin was probably the most level headed lifer in the forum. As I said to her not so very long ago; I never cordially liked her, but I could always respect her as someone who could debate intelligently and rarely if ever employed any of the 'standard' lifer bullshit. That's changed recently (that or nostalgia is creeping back into my view of the ED of yesteryear...) I'm no fan of many of the other lifers who are still with us, but at least the vast majority of them have never, at any time, been worthy of anything but mockery and scorn. Seeing her fall so far and so hard is honestly depressing...  

[_Morgane Fay_]

Jaaten Syric

PhaedraMcSpiffy

I suppose that this one needscontext. Regular ED pro-lifer Le Veuve Zin suggested that women who don't want to get pregnant abstain from vaginal sex unless they are menstruating. I pointed out that this is essentially the "just keep your legs closed" argument in a very poor disguise. Women still don't get to have vaginal sex, but you don't come off quite so harsh as people who say they should be totally celibate. The end result is still the same: you don't get to have the sex you want.

Zin's reply:

Quote:

And I don't get to drive the way I like, keep all the money I earn, or post tubgirl in this thread. Life sucks. qq moar.

...It almost made me cry. I can't stand it when they ******** laugh about the fact that they're trying to control our sex lives.

Read back a bit more if you wanna see her say that forcing someone to stay pregnant isn't forced pregnancy. stare

The sad thing is that, really until a year ago (or even less) Zin was probably the most level headed lifer in the forum. As I said to here not so very long ago; I never cordially liked her, but I could always respect her as someone who could debate intelligently and rarely if ever employed any of the 'standard' lifer bullshit. That's changed recently (that or nostalgia is creeping back into my view of the ED of yesteryear... I'm no fan of many of the other lifers who are still with us, but at least the vast majority of them have never, at any time, been worthy of anything but mockery and scorn, seeing her fall so far and so hard is honestly depressing...

It's not nostalgia, I don't think. I've been away for a good time, about a year actually, and I do see a new vicious, manic edge to her arguments. What I see now basically boils down to victim blaming and biological essentialism.  

[Jaaten Syric]

_Morgane Fay_

Jaaten Syric

PhaedraMcSpiffy

I suppose that this one needscontext. Regular ED pro-lifer Le Veuve Zin suggested that women who don't want to get pregnant abstain from vaginal sex unless they are menstruating. I pointed out that this is essentially the "just keep your legs closed" argument in a very poor disguise. Women still don't get to have vaginal sex, but you don't come off quite so harsh as people who say they should be totally celibate. The end result is still the same: you don't get to have the sex you want.

Zin's reply:

Quote:

And I don't get to drive the way I like, keep all the money I earn, or post tubgirl in this thread. Life sucks. qq moar.

...It almost made me cry. I can't stand it when they ******** laugh about the fact that they're trying to control our sex lives.

Read back a bit more if you wanna see her say that forcing someone to stay pregnant isn't forced pregnancy. stare

The sad thing is that, really until a year ago (or even less) Zin was probably the most level headed lifer in the forum. As I said to here not so very long ago; I never cordially liked her, but I could always respect her as someone who could debate intelligently and rarely if ever employed any of the 'standard' lifer bullshit. That's changed recently (that or nostalgia is creeping back into my view of the ED of yesteryear... I'm no fan of many of the other lifers who are still with us, but at least the vast majority of them have never, at any time, been worthy of anything but mockery and scorn, seeing her fall so far and so hard is honestly depressing...

It's not nostalgia, I don't think. I've been away for a good time, about a year actually, and I do see a new vicious, manic edge to her arguments. What I see now basically boils down to victim blaming and biological essentialism.

Damn. For once I was really hoping that was the case. sweatdrop

Like i said, I never really 'liked' Zin, but from what I had seen she, well, reminded me of me back when I was a lifer. Misguided and maybe a little naive' (a quality she certainly hasn't lost. Zin has to know by now how ridiculously difficult it is to find a doctor willing to preform a sterilization procedure for most of us, the fact that she keeps bringing up that her doc is willing to hand her a referral apparently invalidates all evidence to the contrary <.<) but one got the feeling that her heart was in the right place. Plus she was a boon in all my other 'pet' debates and one of about 5 people active in ED main who didn't bring instant shame on our shared religion but now? I can't imagine what has happened. I mean, I've become jaded, We all have, I'm sure Zin has too but cynicism and assholery don't turn a decent debater into a terrible one, so I'm at a loss. I hope we can get the old Zin back, despite her faults, this new model is rapidly draining what little faith I had left in humanity's potential for progress.

And now in slightly less bitter/rant-y news:

Morgan, I've always loved you sig but alas, as a card carrying Jaalbatross I think I should be the one to tell you; Most male birds don't really have external genitals. <.<

Ducky's off the hook though... >.>  

[_Morgane Fay_]

Jaaten Syric

And now in slightly less bitter/rant-y news:

Morgan, I've always loved you sig but alas, as a card carrying Jaalbatross I think I should be the one to tell you; Most male birds don't really have external genitals. <.<

Ducky's off the hook though... >.>

Heh. Dammit.

Don't mention it too loudly though, I've been reported and forced to remove my sig several times before. sweatdrop
More Duck&Birdie for your delectation & delight.  

[PhaedraMcSpiffy]

Yeah, I seem to remember her being different before. I remember one time, though, when she was asked about pharmacists withholding BC. She was training to be one and said that while she didn't approve of it, she didn't want the pharmacists to lose any power (even if they might abuse it) because they usually make good decisions and know a lot about medicine. Somebody asked her why pharmacists should get to use their positions of power to make personal decisions for people. "Because we're smarter than you".

Then she sigged it. stare And the person who asked that was pissed, because without the context it made her look bad and distorted the whole thing.

I feel like that was over a year ago, so maybe she's always been that way. But I do remember a time when I respected her greatly as pro-life debater.

...What happened to all the other old 'lifers? I swear I haven't seen the guild leader in ages. And I can't even think of any other PLG members.

Also: Those are tailfeathers, you pervs! =P  

[Jaaten Syric]

PhaedraMcSpiffy

Also: Those are tailfeathers, you pervs! =P

Sorry, clearly avian penises there, Phaedra. <.<  

[_Morgane Fay_]

Alright, let's have the creators themselves settle it, shall we?

Quote:

'Smut is in the mind of the beholder', Tom Lehrer once sang. We couldn't agree more, because apart from the confusion about the names Fokke & Sukke, people keep asking us about Duck & Birdie's little tails. In the frontal shots, the tips of these tails appear between the legs of our heroes. Somehow, people mistake them for penises.

Birds with penises, right! How the human mind works...

So there you have it biggrin  

[Munkers]

PhaedraMcSpiffy

Yeah, I seem to remember her being different before. I remember one time, though, when she was asked about pharmacists withholding BC. She was training to be one and said that while she didn't approve of it, she didn't want the pharmacists to lose any power (even if they might abuse it) because they usually make good decisions and know a lot about medicine. Somebody asked her why pharmacists should get to use their positions of power to make personal decisions for people. "Because we're smarter than you".

Oh Christ. I was there for one of those episodes. She went on this huge tirade about how a pharmacist was more knowledgeable about drugs than a nurse or a doctor. I asked her about withholding prescriptions and specifically mentioned misoprostol (Cytotec) which is a common part of the abortafacient cocktail, but also a legitimate treatment for gastric ulcers. When I mentioned that these "horrible, barbaric" drugs had other uses she gave me this flippant brush-off about "What do I care what it's used for? I shouldn't have to know that."


RAGE.  

[PhaedraMcSpiffy]

gonk

I hope I never run into a pharmacist like that.

Also: ...I still say tailfeathers. =P