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 Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:59 pm
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Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:12 am
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Aquatic_blue You mentioned in your introduction: Quote: By the way, Universalism means All will be Saved, as the Bible says, though the "world" has misinterpreted Jesus in some cases, obviously. Does this mean that you believe everyone in this world will be saved and go to Heaven?
Yes, but Jesus wasn't talking so much about the next life as this one. He was telling us how to make Heaven on Earth, instead of the Hell that it's been for many people. |
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Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:08 pm
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Lela XX Aquatic_blue You mentioned in your introduction: Quote: By the way, Universalism means All will be Saved, as the Bible says, though the "world" has misinterpreted Jesus in some cases, obviously. Does this mean that you believe everyone in this world will be saved and go to Heaven? Yes, but Jesus wasn't talking so much about the next life as this one. He was telling us how to make Heaven on Earth, instead of the Hell that it's been for many people.
And by this, what exactly do you mean? What do you mean by "Jesus wasn't talking so much about the next life as this one."?
I don't recall Jesus ever telling us how to make Heaven on Earth. The world is the world and the world will a lot of times hate us for what we believe, we will suffer for being a believer in God, and we are not of this world. The world can be an ugly place and being worldly is a giant step into a sinful lifestyle. The Bible makes it clear to us that Earth is somewhere we aren't meant to get too comfortable.
James 4:4 NIV:
You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
1 John 2:15 - 17 NIV:
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.
Romans 12:2 NIV:
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
1 John 3:13 NIV:
Do not be surprised, my brothers and sisters,[a] if the world hates you.
1 Peter 4:12 - 17 NIV:
Dear friends, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that has come on you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler. However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
John 15:18 - 25 NIV:
“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’
Hebrews 13:14 NIV:
For here we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the city that is to come.
Not everyone on this Earth will be saved. If that is the mindset that we take then what is Satan's purpose? What is purpose of Hell? Denying Hell's existence is like denying Heaven's existence - there must be light and darkness. People every day go to Hell and people every day go to Heaven.
Matthew 7:13 - 14 NIV:
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Matthew 7:21 - 23 NIV:
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Matthew 22:14 NIV:
“For many are invited, but few are chosen.”
Luke 13:22 - 27 NIV:
Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?”
He said to them, “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’
“But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’
“Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’
“But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’ |
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Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:32 pm
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Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:58 pm
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Lela XX Aquatic_blue And by this, what exactly do you mean? What do you mean by "Jesus wasn't talking so much about the next life as this one."? I don't recall Jesus ever telling us how to make Heaven on Earth. The world is the world and the world will a lot of times hate us for what we believe, we will suffer for being a believer in God, and we are not of this world. The world can be an ugly place and being worldly is a giant step into a sinful lifestyle. The Bible makes it clear to us that Earth is somewhere we aren't meant to get too comfortable. A lot of words in the Bible are hard to interpret. The word translated "world" in the New Testament actually means system of order and apparently was referring to the Roman system or the Pharasaic system. Another example of misunderstanding is with the word "land". As in Revelation where it mentions that 1/3 of the land will be destroyed. It wasn't talking about the land of the whole world, but the land of Israel. And that prophecy of Jesus was fulfilled in 70 AD, when Rome destroyed much of the population. Jesus said the Kingdom of Heaven was at hand. He was talking about right then and there. Those who joined him were joining his Kingdom on Earth, not just in Heaven. He told the Apostles how to run his Kingdom on Earth. And that's what they did as explained in Acts. Jesus said God is God of the living, not of the dead. By "living" he meant those who are saved, but he also possibly meant those living on Earth who are also saved during this life. Most of the churches seem to be now of this "world", i.e. the unfaithful world.
Quote: A lot of words in the Bible are hard to interpret. The word translated "world" in the New Testament actually means system of order and apparently was referring to the Roman system or the Pharasaic system.
That's why we have tools such as the Strong's concordance to help us out. There are many different definitions for "world" depending on it's context. "World" will not mean "system of order" in every situation or Bible verse. There are many definitions according to how the word is used as we can see below:
Strong's G2889 - kosmos
1) an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government
2) ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:3
3) the world, the universe
4) the circle of the earth, the earth
5) the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
6) the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
7) world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly
a) the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ
8 ) any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
a) the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc)
Quote: Another example of misunderstanding is with the word "land". As in Revelation where it mentions that 1/3 of the land will be destroyed. It wasn't talking about the land of the whole world, but the land of Israel. And that prophecy of Jesus was fulfilled in 70 AD, when Rome destroyed much of the population.
The word "land" itself I'm sure can have many different meanings as well depending on the usage. No where do I recall reading in Revelation saying, "1/3 of Israel's land alone will be destroyed." Revelation is a book of what is to come, not a book of what has already happened (some people will argue that Revelation is simply talking about something that happened in the past such as a fulfilled prophecy or the fall of Rome, but if there's the case - why is there future tense mentioned? Jesus will be coming back and judgement will be carried out upon this Earth and it will be destroyed).
Quote: Jesus said the Kingdom of Heaven was at hand. He was talking about right then and there. Those who joined him were joining his Kingdom on Earth, not just in Heaven. He told the Apostles how to run his Kingdom on Earth. And that's what they did as explained in Acts.
What verse are you referring to in Acts are you referring to? |
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