Welcome to Gaia! ::

Pagan Fluffy Rehabilitation Center

Back to Guilds

Educational, Respectful and Responsible Paganism. Don't worry, we'll teach you how. 

Tags: Pagan, Wicca, Paganism, Witchcraft, Witch 

Reply Pagan Fluffy Rehabilitation Center
Ritual Question? Goto Page: [] [<] 1 2 3 4

Quick Reply

Enter both words below, separated by a space:

Can't read the text? Click here

Submit

Which is First?
  Raise Energy
  Spell
View Results

Bastemhet

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:24 pm
Fiddlers Green
It is impossible to do spellwork without interacting with the Vis web, if the spell is purely internal, it has less collateral effect, but as you breath, move, and generate electricity ect... you are a part of the Vis web. It is dangerous to act upon a system without understanding that system.


In what circumstance would a spell be internal?

Quote:
Quote:
I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, but isn't it dangerous to make a positive claim as well if there isn't a conventional way of measuring it that is peer reviewed? Are you referring to something like those metal bars you hold that waver when there's a disturbance (can't remember what they're called) or a pendulum?

I have about 17 people I consider peers in this. It is reviewed. Just as I would not ask a random person on the street to review a treatise on molecular decay, I will not desire review from the unaware or uninitiated. Furthermore, the research is not entirely available to the public. I am working with the research of others as well, and I am not at liberty to share their research as givens or causal components for my own findings. Nor are they desirous to have their names attached to this, for reasons of their own concern.
I invite you to research for yourself and come to your own conclusions. I suggest starting with physics, biology, and geology.
If you find that the cosmos is series of independent events that transpire in isolated situations, Then that is your finding. I will disagree, but it could be as much vaguerity of my perception as anything else.
Pendulums are fine tools.
I suggest the Sun, Snowflake, and Lodestone to start with tho. They are similar enough to create easy concordants, yet divergent enough that they require actual observation and causal reasoning to correlate.


I respect that you are not at liberty to divulge more about their findings. What exactly should I do with the last three things you mentioned? What should I be watching for?

Quote:
The way sound interacts with it's environ. I don't have room/time for the physics part of this here... which is really most of what there is to it. It is the way a wave interacts with everything it passes by or indirectly effects passing near. The Sound itself is Vis, it interacts with other Vis by either moving it, organizing it (when sound is used to create patterns), or changing it, such as changing the state of matter. There are other possibilities as well. The sound might provoke some entity to action, whether it is your neighbour yelling for you to be quite, or some long slumbering Genus answering an ancient agreement.


Do you know what these sound theories are called so that I can look them up?

Quote:
It is like damming a river or flicking on a light switch, somewhere, sometime, something, likely many somethings, shall be affected by it. Just know where you are getting the energy from, and how it is interacting with the world around you. Carefully note your environment before and after, if there was no noticeable change, and some time passes without any, it is possible that the amount of alteration was small enough as to be repaired before it reached a level we can notice. Mind you, just because we don't notice something is wrong, doesn't mean it isn't... but expecting people to function beyound their perceptual capacity is asking a bit much, even for me. Rather, I encourage people to use reason, look more closely and carefully at what they are doing, maybe expand that list of what is individually perceivable, have a care for the causally potential after affects of their actions... And take the rake to more things.


What else can I use to measure Vis? What else should I look for? I have no experience with this, so your telling me to notice the environment without giving any signposts to guide my search is sort of like teaching me to read without giving me any books. sweatdrop

Quote:
In case you didn't notice, I am a crotchety old curmudgeon about magic. I do everything other than sit on my porch and shake my cane, ranting about kids these days. However, I would rather a world with far less practitioners, than more who are careless. It is a tool of great might. I would make comparison to celestial bodies... but the immediate impact would be lost. No, more like nuclear science. Even our attempts at positive usage can have gruesome and long lasting consequences, even when we take every precaution that we know of.


Understood, which is why I'm being so particular.

Quote:
A little patience before may make less need for a lot of patience afterwards. On this topic, and in my current mood, I am happy to share what is mine to share. However, my answers will never be your answers. To internalize knowledge seems to require an actual process of learning. I could spout formulae for physics, biology, and causal relationships until my body fails me and my time in this narrative is done, and I would still not be finished explaining it all. On the other hand, if you seek causal relationships, on whatever level they interact, be they social, molecular, ecological, and then find the common thread, then you will Know, and it will be your knowledge. wink


...if only I could see the unseen so intuitively. An then, trust what I've seen once I've seen it.  
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:59 pm
Sophist
In what circumstance would a spell be internal?

It neither uses, nor acts upon vis outside your body as a principle. There will be incidental effects, of course, but those are not the source or target.

Quote:
I respect that you are not at liberty to divulge more about their findings. What exactly should I do with the last three things you mentioned? What should I be watching for?

Everything.
How they form(ed), how they react to the cosmos around them, how the cosmos around them reacts to them. what makes them what they are. Once you understand them individually, see how they interact with each other. How one effects the other, or how something that effects one could effect the others.


Quote:
Do you know what these sound theories are called so that I can look them up?

Start with basic definitions of sound.
Then scientific ones.
If you are feeling ambitious, look into the physics of music and the center of harmonics for swords.
Look at them individually, then apply what one teaches you to the other, and do not shirk any field that comes up in between.

Quote:
What else can I use to measure Vis? What else should I look for? I have no experience with this, so your telling me to notice the environment without giving any signposts to guide my search is sort of like teaching me to read without giving me any books. sweatdrop

The cosmos is the book.
The flowing river is Vis.
Electromagnetic currents are Vis.
Vis is the wind and the impulse that races thru our neurons as a thought.
Covalent bonds are Vis.
Solar Flares are Vis.
The tools to measure the different forms of Vis, as presented are wild and varied. However, the more you actually study these interplays, the more similarities you observe, the more you will be able to generalize tools.
A thermometer, a barometer, a compass, a scale, a yard stick, and a calendar are a good start.

Quote:
Understood, which is why I'm being so particular.

I appreciate that.

Quote:
...if only I could see the unseen so intuitively. An then, trust what I've seen once I've seen it.

It is not always intuitive.
Few people can see magnetic fields, that is why we use iron filings.
Most people do not smell air pressure, so we make tools to translate it to something we can observe. This is not a quick or easy process.
Not a person I know has seen an atom unaided. However, we have diagrams, and we have tools for seeing them. And this is the heart of the matter. The expansion of awareness and perception. We notice a phenomenon, we wonder what caused it. We observe the parts of the event that we can, then we see how they correlate to other events we cannot directly perceive that we have tools to perceive. We then use these tools to translate more of what happened into something we can observe. Then, we see what is left, what is unaccounted for. Then comes the difficult part, finding a way to translate what we do not yet have tools to perceive into a medium we can observe.  

Fiddlers Green


Bastemhet

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:06 pm
Hmm..I think I am beginning to understand. It seems like you're taking a scientific perspective, and using those tools to bridge the gap between the natural and supernatural- except from what you're saying, there need not be supernatural phenomena, but phenomena we have yet to measure by conventional means. Am I close?

Thanks for giving me a starting point. I think I will probably never be a master at this, but it's good to be knowledgeable. In the meantime I'll probably lay off from spell making unless I can do it in a medium that I have more knowledge of rather than shooting bolts willy nilly.  
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:04 pm
Sophist
Hmm..I think I am beginning to understand. It seems like you're taking a scientific perspective, and using those tools to bridge the gap between the natural and supernatural- except from what you're saying, there need not be supernatural phenomena, but phenomena we have yet to measure by conventional means. Am I close?

If by scientific, you mean using critical thinking, analysis and applied knowledge, the yes, absolutely.
Mind you my respect for the mystery cult that "science" has become is practically nonexistent. It is important to divorce science from the (so called) scientific community. That having been established, we hold that there are not supernatural phenomenon, merely natural phenomenon that we do not sufficiently understand yet. So yes, you have it.

Quote:
Thanks for giving me a starting point. I think I will probably never be a master at this, but it's good to be knowledgeable. In the meantime I'll probably lay off from spell making unless I can do it in a medium that I have more knowledge of rather than shooting bolts willy nilly.

Ah, rightio, I am glad if anything I could offer here helped. 3nodding
As far as mastery... that doesn't exactly happen. There is always more to know, more to learn. Assuming the book is closed and that all there is to discover is done is very dangerous. We are all students.  

Fiddlers Green


Recursive Paradox

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:55 am
I'm starting to wonder whether or not the term Vis describes almost the exact same concept as Etherism's term Ether  
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:13 pm
Recursive Paradox
I'm starting to wonder whether or not the term Vis describes almost the exact same concept as Etherism's term Ether
Remind me, do you consider Reiki to be an expression of Ether?  

TeaDidikai


Fiddlers Green

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:15 pm
Recursive Paradox
I'm starting to wonder whether or not the term Vis describes almost the exact same concept as Etherism's term Ether

Likely, from the model of Ether that I believe you are using.
It is easier to explain in person with props. 3nodding  
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:32 pm
Fiddlers Green
Recursive Paradox
I'm starting to wonder whether or not the term Vis describes almost the exact same concept as Etherism's term Ether

Likely, from the model of Ether that I believe you are using.
It is easier to explain in person with props. 3nodding


*would love to attend that puppet show* blaugh  

Bastemhet

Reply
Pagan Fluffy Rehabilitation Center

Goto Page: [] [<] 1 2 3 4
 
Manage Your Items
Other Stuff
Get GCash
Offers
Get Items
More Items
Where Everyone Hangs Out
Other Community Areas
Virtual Spaces
Fun Stuff
Gaia's Games
Mini-Games
Play with GCash
Play with Platinum