So California has legalized Gay Marriage

[Neferet -House of Night-]

Here's my two cents on gay marriage:

Gay people are people like you and me. They are citizens of this country like you and me. They pay taxes, they work jobs just like you and me. They have our same intrests whether it's the same music, movies, etc (I know a few masculine gays that love heavy metal and like bloody stuff. biggrin ). They have dreams and aspirations like the rest of us. Why oh why should we deny them the same rights? Because the Bible says it's wrong? Since when did we base the Constitution on the Bible. Since when did the word God mean the Christian God (it could be a pagan God for all you know, same with creator, a creator can mean anything. They're both general terms.)

Here's something to think about. Look at the preamble to the Declaration of Independence:

Quote:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal. They are endowed by their creator (general term) certain UNALIENABLE rights and these rights are LIFE LIBERTY and the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS.

Who are we to deny the pursuit of happiness? Who are we to tell a gay person what they can and cannot do?

Also a bible verse to reflect on.

Quote:

Matthew 7:1-2: 1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

Who are any of us to judge gays? Who are we to tell them that they are sinners and going to hell when we're sinners ourselves? What if they are Christian? Does that make them wrong? What makes a true Christian?

Also keep in mind that some years ago, interracial marriage was considered illegal, and immoral and now it is okay to interracially marry. Though many people still think it is wrong. It has taken a school some 20 years to make an apology for it's regulation on interracial dating. In the future, this would happen to gay marriage.

Another thing to bear in mind, love knows no boundaries. It is not bound to anything but it binds 2 people regardless of age, gender, sexual orientation, and race. God likewise has no boundaries so why should we make both have boundaries? Why can't we realize that love is love and that none of us have the right to say what love is and what love isn't?  

[ShideKnight]

Dark Angel Rai

Since when did the word God mean the Christian God (it could be a pagan God for all you know, same with creator, a creator can mean anything. They're both general terms.)

Who are any of us to judge gays? Who are we to tell them that they are sinners and going to hell when we're sinners ourselves? What if they are Christian? Does that make them wrong? What makes a true Christian?

Another thing to bear in mind, love knows no boundaries. It is not bound to anything but it binds 2 people regardless of age, gender, sexual orientation, and race. God likewise has no boundaries so why should we make both have boundaries? Why can't we realize that love is love and that none of us have the right to say what love is and what love isn't?

Well, typically when you say God you are referring to the Judeo-Christian God, and when you use a lowercase g you are referring to mythology, pagan deity, etc (At least this is the way it is in most literature that I have read, including non-Christian stuff).

By the way, is pagan an appropriate word to use when referring to new age/wicca/druid/etc? I know it is from the Christian standpoint, but if it's offending then is there another?

As for judging... it is a really hard thing, but God uses people to judge people. The big question is, is a given judgment rendered from the Holy Spirit in you, or is it the flesh talking?

It's hard for anyone to tell the difference sometimes. But the message of Sin has to be delivered before it can be understood. So I mean, it's not exactly right to say "Don't judge, you have no right". Better to ask "Are you judging for the right reasons?".

Though, I suppose typically you are right.

Love, though, I think that a big part of it is that love by itself is not a physical thing... the way that I understood it is that the desire for one person to marry another, or to do to explicit things with another, is something that is based in the flesh... whereas love itself is not limited in any way, and not tied to body functions.  

[Neferet -House of Night-]

ShideKnight

Dark Angel Rai

Since when did the word God mean the Christian God (it could be a pagan God for all you know, same with creator, a creator can mean anything. They're both general terms.)

Who are any of us to judge gays? Who are we to tell them that they are sinners and going to hell when we're sinners ourselves? What if they are Christian? Does that make them wrong? What makes a true Christian?

Another thing to bear in mind, love knows no boundaries. It is not bound to anything but it binds 2 people regardless of age, gender, sexual orientation, and race. God likewise has no boundaries so why should we make both have boundaries? Why can't we realize that love is love and that none of us have the right to say what love is and what love isn't?

Well, typically when you say God you are referring to the Judeo-Christian God, and when you use a lowercase g you are referring to mythology, pagan deity, etc (At least this is the way it is in most literature that I have read, including non-Christian stuff).

By the way, is pagan an appropriate word to use when referring to new age/wicca/druid/etc? I know it is from the Christian standpoint, but if it's offending then is there another?

As for judging... it is a really hard thing, but God uses people to judge people. The big question is, is a given judgment rendered from the Holy Spirit in you, or is it the flesh talking?

It's hard for anyone to tell the difference sometimes. But the message of Sin has to be delivered before it can be understood. So I mean, it's not exactly right to say "Don't judge, you have no right". Better to ask "Are you judging for the right reasons?".

Though, I suppose typically you are right.

Love, though, I think that a big part of it is that love by itself is not a physical thing... the way that I understood it is that the desire for one person to marry another, or to do to explicit things with another, is something that is based in the flesh... whereas love itself is not limited in any way, and not tied to body functions.

I more or less just call myself eclectic cause it's a pain in the arse to keep typing noobie eclectic pagan. Honestly I dun know why people call themselves pagan when it is a deemening word, but it's probably to rebel against the Christian society or something. I dunno.

And the term God means any God. I've had people capitalize both God and Goddess because both are titles and according to the English language titles are capitalized.  

[ShideKnight]

Dark Angel Rai

I more or less just call myself eclectic cause it's a pain in the arse to keep typing noobie eclectic pagan. Honestly I dun know why people call themselves pagan when it is a deemening word, but it's probably to rebel against the Christian society or something. I dunno.

And the term God means any God. I've had people capitalize both God and Goddess because both are titles and according to the English language titles are capitalized.

Ahh, I see.

I understand then, the title and the capital g makes sense.  

[Neferet -House of Night-]

ShideKnight

Dark Angel Rai

I more or less just call myself eclectic cause it's a pain in the arse to keep typing noobie eclectic pagan. Honestly I dun know why people call themselves pagan when it is a deemening word, but it's probably to rebel against the Christian society or something. I dunno.

And the term God means any God. I've had people capitalize both God and Goddess because both are titles and according to the English language titles are capitalized.

Ahh, I see.

I understand then, the title and the capital g makes sense.

Just refer back to basic grammar from elementary school and you'll be fine. razz  

[Rosary16]

Siren of Saturn

not to seem too conservative or "right winged" but..(we are in a christian forum so you should expect this)

gay marriage is wrong.

period, end of story. No matter if your in California, New Jersey, Canada, or Liberia. I don't care.

It is wrong just like lying is wrong, or stealing a piece of candy or a million bucks. God doesn't see gray areas. Sin is sin.

But please keep in mind as i write this, i don't think gay people are bad or terrible. Everyone sins...I'm not going to stop talking to my friend that has a problem with lying or make her feel like she's "sick" or have some kind of disease. have a good friend that's bi and we've talked about this. I go by "love the sinner, hate the sin" motto. So i do hate gay marriage...i will not support it, but i will also help a gay person and show them God's love in any way shape or form that i can. But i will not support their sin.

Thank you, voice of reason!
Gay marriage is wrong. Period!  

[Rosary16]

I've always been anti-gay marriage, but after seeing how the No On 8ers are attacking the Mormons and calling Catholics fascists, now I'm really anti-gay marriage.
Forget separation of church and state. The law and the church says marriage is between one man and one woman. You can't force society to change it's rules, shove an agenda down people's throats and attack another community when you lose.
It's like killing an unborn baby; just plain wrong.
End of story. Good-bye. The end.  

[Rosary16]

Dark Angel Rai

Here's my two cents on gay marriage:

Gay people are people like you and me. They are citizens of this country like you and me. They pay taxes, they work jobs just like you and me. They have our same intrests whether it's the same music, movies, etc (I know a few masculine gays that love heavy metal and like bloody stuff. biggrin ). They have dreams and aspirations like the rest of us. Why oh why should we deny them the same rights? Because the Bible says it's wrong? Since when did we base the Constitution on the Bible. Since when did the word God mean the Christian God (it could be a pagan God for all you know, same with creator, a creator can mean anything. They're both general terms.)

Here's something to think about. Look at the preamble to the Declaration of Independence:

Quote:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal. They are endowed by their creator (general term) certain UNALIENABLE rights and these rights are LIFE LIBERTY and the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS.

Who are we to deny the pursuit of happiness? Who are we to tell a gay person what they can and cannot do?

Also a bible verse to reflect on.

Quote:

Matthew 7:1-2: 1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

Who are any of us to judge gays? Who are we to tell them that they are sinners and going to hell when we're sinners ourselves? What if they are Christian? Does that make them wrong? What makes a true Christian?

Also keep in mind that some years ago, interracial marriage was considered illegal, and immoral and now it is okay to interracially marry. Though many people still think it is wrong. It has taken a school some 20 years to make an apology for it's regulation on interracial dating. In the future, this would happen to gay marriage.

Another thing to bear in mind, love knows no boundaries. It is not bound to anything but it binds 2 people regardless of age, gender, sexual orientation, and race. God likewise has no boundaries so why should we make both have boundaries? Why can't we realize that love is love and that none of us have the right to say what love is and what love isn't?

You've got a good point. Here's some food for thought:
Who are they to say what we can and cannot vote for? Who are they to call Yes On 8ers bigots for having their own opinion? Who are they to attack religious people for believing what the Bible says?
The gay community has no right to say what we can and cannot think. No one has that right. I can't tell you what to think and you can't tell me what to think because we think differently. Why can't we realize that people will think what they think and no "Stop the H8te" shirt or No On 8 rally can change that.
Love has no boundaries, but the rules of society do and if we keep changing tradition to make one interest group happy, then other interest groups will force their agenda on society and the cycle continues. The question is where does it end?  

[Neferet -House of Night-]

Rosary16

Dark Angel Rai

Here's my two cents on gay marriage:

Gay people are people like you and me. They are citizens of this country like you and me. They pay taxes, they work jobs just like you and me. They have our same intrests whether it's the same music, movies, etc (I know a few masculine gays that love heavy metal and like bloody stuff. biggrin ). They have dreams and aspirations like the rest of us. Why oh why should we deny them the same rights? Because the Bible says it's wrong? Since when did we base the Constitution on the Bible. Since when did the word God mean the Christian God (it could be a pagan God for all you know, same with creator, a creator can mean anything. They're both general terms.)

Here's something to think about. Look at the preamble to the Declaration of Independence:

Quote:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal. They are endowed by their creator (general term) certain UNALIENABLE rights and these rights are LIFE LIBERTY and the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS.

Who are we to deny the pursuit of happiness? Who are we to tell a gay person what they can and cannot do?

Also a bible verse to reflect on.

Quote:

Matthew 7:1-2: 1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

Who are any of us to judge gays? Who are we to tell them that they are sinners and going to hell when we're sinners ourselves? What if they are Christian? Does that make them wrong? What makes a true Christian?

Also keep in mind that some years ago, interracial marriage was considered illegal, and immoral and now it is okay to interracially marry. Though many people still think it is wrong. It has taken a school some 20 years to make an apology for it's regulation on interracial dating. In the future, this would happen to gay marriage.

Another thing to bear in mind, love knows no boundaries. It is not bound to anything but it binds 2 people regardless of age, gender, sexual orientation, and race. God likewise has no boundaries so why should we make both have boundaries? Why can't we realize that love is love and that none of us have the right to say what love is and what love isn't?

You've got a good point. Here's some food for thought:
Who are they to say what we can and cannot vote for? Who are they to call Yes On 8ers bigots for having their own opinion? Who are they to attack religious people for believing what the Bible says?
The gay community has no right to say what we can and cannot think. No one has that right. I can't tell you what to think and you can't tell me what to think because we think differently. Why can't we realize that people will think what they think and no "Stop the H8te" shirt or No On 8 rally can change that.
Love has no boundaries, but the rules of society do and if we keep changing tradition to make one interest group happy, then other interest groups will force their agenda on society and the cycle continues. The question is where does it end?

It'll end when humanity is no more. But with gays they aren't an "interest group". They're actual living breathing people like me and you. Were the blacks that wanted to marry whites just "interest groups" or were they actual living people wanted to love whoever they wanted?  

[ShideKnight]

As more time goes by after the election, I am starting to think that the laws of the land regarding that sort of thing really don't matter.

I mean, if prop 8 had not passed, how would it of effected us as a faith?

It's important to stand behind God's word, but we could still stand behind God's word while letting the world do it's thing.

I dunno.  

[Aojin]

I haven't read every post here but I just want to say something that hopefully might help people, idk. I am christian, and I was born in a christian family. I was never sexually harassed in my life ever or anything like that. but, I have always liked men and I've wished I was a girl for most of my life too (I'm a boy). I didn't KNOW I liked men when I was little, but I got "funny feelings" from muscular men and stuff, and I always thought I would grow up and start liking girls one day, but now I'm almost 18 and it never happened, and I realized a few years ago I get turned on by men :/ I don't know if I was "born with it", but I know it was unchangeable and I never made a choice. it may have to do with the fact that I decided from a very early age (2 or 3) that I wanted to be like mommy (not like sex change and all, even though I really do want to be a girl now) and not daddy because mommy was nice and understanding and daddy spanked me a lot. I never had an intention of "going gay" though, I actually planned on being straight until puberty kicked in and I realized it several years later.

SO, point is, I know for a fact that it was not a choice and honestly I do not expect straight people to understand it because it's really something they can't relate to (except how they didn't choose to like who they like). but, personally I do not think gay marriage is right. I think the reason God says homosexuality is wrong is because all lust is wrong, but unlike straight relationships, gay people can't have children, so there is absolutely no other reason for them to have sex besides lust. Honestly, no one should be having sex except to have children in my opinion, because it's wrong and it tears us down. even "romantic sex" isn't excusable, there's still lust involved. I can't really talk though because I still want sex and such :/ fortunately I have never had it yet ;D  

[melancholyfarts]

I don't necessarily agree with it, but I think the country has more important things to worry about. We have to coexist with non Christian people but we also have to represent or faith or however you want to say it. I'll just not care if it's legal or not sense it would test people with their morals and what not.  

[Anji-Neko-Chan]

My Opinion: exclaim

I want to keep in mind that America was founded more or less on Christianity. And since we are believers of God then we must also acknowledge that we have free will. We as humans have a choice, and this God given ability to choose was incorporated in the forming of the United States of America.

Essentially we can do whatever we want whether it is good or bad. Because God had enough mercy and love not to make us programmed robots, but the ability to choose.

But if you look in the bible at 1st Corinthians chapter 10 verse 23 it says:

"You say, “I am allowed to do anything”—but not everything is good for you. You say, “I am allowed to do anything”—but not everything is beneficial."

In other words we have a choice to do whatever we want. But that does not mean that everything we choose to do is okay.

This government can give all the rights they could possibly give to the gay community. They would have the freedom to do it but guess what?

Under the eyes of God it is a sin.

It is a sexual sin that is there with rape, fornication, adultery, lust. And sexual sin in no different than stealing, murdering, lying, idolatry, and so on and so forth. Because there is no "this sin is worse than this sin." It's all the same in God's eyes. But God is a good God ready to forgive the sins of those who want to turn away from them and ask him for forgiveness. Because even though God detests sin, he loves the sinner. In the same way I have faults and you have faults, I have no problem with homosexuals. I just do not agree with homosexuality.

Marriage is an institution created by God that binds a husband to a wife in love. And from that love, they unite their bodies as one unit and procreate. Man and woman were created to fit together and become one like two puzzle pieces.

The problem is that in this day and age mankind has been living by their carnal desires and not living by the Holy Spirit. Because mankind is following their hormones the word "love" has been greatly misconstrued. People have done crazy things because the assumed that they were "in love". In both the Old and New Testement, it says that homosexuality is a sin and it is wrong. Therefore since it is a sin it is an abomination against God and sin is not of God. And since the bible says God is love, then for two people of the same gender to be together-that is not love my friend. That is lust trying to disguise itself as love.

And you know what, the same thing is applied to straight couples too. And I have seen this a MILLION times. People give their bodies to others freely thinking that this is an act of love. It is NOT love! That is being blinded by lust.

For every man God has created there is a woman just for him. And for every woman God made there is a man just for her. The problem is that nobody is willing to wait on God to give them that person. They want instant self gratification. That is not how God intended love to be. Sex and marriage and beautiful things God created, but we are using our free will to tarnish it be it straight or homosexual.

But then again the bible warns that mankind would one day live on their desires. So the fact that it is becoming more and more acceptable really doesn't surprise me. As much as I don't agree with the homosexual lifestyle, God does not call me to be bad to people for anything. Hate the sin but love the sinner. I do NOT support gay marriage and never will. Frankily that is something that the gay community would have to answer to God about individually when the time comes =/
 

[Ricette]

America wasn't a Christian based country. Not all those who founded this place were Christian. Its just assumed because of things like "In God We Trust" on the money which wasn't there till the 50's. But Christian based or not, this country was to be run with church and state separate. And lately, the whole same-sex marriage is severely blurring the lines on that much needed separation. Though right now bigger issues are coming around. I personally don't care who marries. Why should anyone else? Human nature dictates scapegoating the most different from the culturally and socially norm and well, again and again I see the same thing "Gay marriage is a threat" and yet again I fail to see how. I've had a couple people tell me that its a thing being forced on THEM, when its not if you look at it logically and at the big picture. Its only a threat because its against the so called norms bred into us from the get-go. This is turning into a circle-jerk essentially. And while everyone here can debate or put in their two cents on what they feel is right or wrong, we have no rights to say what is or isn't for a person. No archaic book should dictate what goes on in society in this day and age. And again, we condemn and push judgment on others and we, none of us, no matter religious beliefs, has that right. only the deity we worship. Let the ones who are said ot be the judges on such matters be such. Not us lowly mortals who truly have no notion of that which we do half of the time.  

[Anji-Neko-Chan]

>.> I said more or less. Not completely. Perhaps I worded it wrong (?). But one cannot deny that God and the concept of free will were a formidable influence don't you think?

Well anyways I have read your post Ric and I did my own research online. I found this poll online with quotes from both people who think so and those who don't. I found it interesting and learned a lot. The writers are very mature in their opinions and write them in a clear way (no worries about random no0b posts lol).

?AMERICA? :3


I want to be offended that you (Ric) call the Bible an archaic book, but I can't. I can sweat blood through my fingertips typing vigorously that the Bible is not an ordinary book, but a book that has impacted lives in many generations and has withstood the test of time. It is the living Word of God. It's the Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth ( ;D ) But if you are as stubborn as me, it won't phase you haha xD

This is the same word that says each human has a choice to live how they want to, the same principle that is part of being American no? Now as for judging others. The bible says that only God can judge an individual. That is not our job. As a Christian I know for a fact that a lot of people have done messed up things to others in the name of God. That is not the right way for a Christian to be. Some tend to get so emotional over these things that it clouds their perception and some of us can look pretty...what's the best word...."D< j00 goin to hell!!!!!"

Yea that's just being ignorant >,>
And if it helps I apologize on behalf of the Christian no0bs.

I think the major misconception is that Christians hate gay people and WANT them to burn in hell. NO NO NO NO. We aren't called to think that way and I ask that whoever claims to be a Christian and has these ideas should pray for forgiveness. The hope and faith of a Christian is to turn from sin and ask for forgiveness so that we may receive salvation and be with God one day. This hope should not only be for ourselves, but for everyone. But people forget that. We want salvation for everyone, but not everyone is willing to make the change to get it, ya dig?

Salvation is individual. Our job as disciples of the Lord is to just let people know about salvation, the word of God, the wages of sin and so on and so forth. That's it. I said my piece on what I feel about it and what God says on it. Take it or leave it. I can't get mad if people don't want to agree. God gave you the right to choose even if the choice we make is good or bad, ya feel me? I said my piece. You do what you want with it. I don't know you personally and I don't really want to follow you everywhere to see what you're up to. That would be awkward O_o. Now if a person read what I posted for example and despite what I have said, they feel no conviction and still choose to live that lifestyle then that is between them and God. I have no say in it. I think a lot of Christian's forget that sometimes.


And although I don't agree with it, Ric is right in the sense that there are more things to worry about in this country than that. We have a wounded economy, our youth dropping out of school and there is poverty everywhere. Oh and I forgot about war. War is no fun. I know a lot of people out there in Iraq and such o_o Hope they get back home safe!!!!!!