Finding the Right Deity

[kage no neko]

From what I understand, some of the gods there took an oath to only allow worship from their people on their land.

I actually think I came to fully understand how this works the other day. We were driving around the country side, all over the place.. and suddenly I felt a VERY strong presence and all I could this is it felt very comforting and mother-like. Passed a sign saying we were in some native american territory. As soon as we left the territory, the feeling was gone and I couldn't feel it no matter how hard I tried.
I think it'd be similar with the gods who are bound to their land, that sure, you could worship them all you like, but you'd never get a response.  

[Anorectic-Pandas]

kage no neko

From what I understand, some of the gods there took an oath to only allow worship from their people on their land.

I actually think I came to fully understand how this works the other day. We were driving around the country side, all over the place.. and suddenly I felt a VERY strong presence and all I could this is it felt very comforting and mother-like. Passed a sign saying we were in some native american territory. As soon as we left the territory, the feeling was gone and I couldn't feel it no matter how hard I tried.
I think it'd be similar with the gods who are bound to their land, that sure, you could worship them all you like, but you'd never get a response.

I don't think any gods are tied to the lands in which they were originally worshiped.

The way I see it, is there is one male God, and one female Goddess, who are completely separate, equal and powerful.
And they show themselves to different cultures differently.
And all the pantheons of the world are expressions and aspects of these two forces.

Also, they are present in all living and non-living being of nature.
Following that logic, they are everywhere, so they can be worshiped everywhere.

For example-
Worshiping Brighid is just directing your focus and honour to the powerful, protective, inspirational part of the female Goddess.
And if you were to worship, say Kali, you would be directing your attention to the strong, forceful, warrior side of her.


But, I haven't heard or read anywhere that a god or goddess has bound themselves to one land/ people.

 

[XxsinicalxX]

So what you, Anorectic - Pandas, doistu and Brass are trying to say is that you should worship either the god, pantheons, or deities that come from your ancestry?
what if you don't know them?
I mean, my ethnicity is hispanic and all i know when it comes to us is that there were many tribes in the years past, but to know from which or what gods they worship would be a b**** to find out. Especially since I dont know my other half of the family... xp  

[doistu]

The Celts are a very small group and are only really known to themselves. The only reason I know anything about it is because I met one whilst travelling around Ireland.
They don't broadcast their path so it's pretty unknown.

Anorectic-Pandas, whilst you may follow soft polytheism (believing all Gods are part of a whole) some pantheons might not.
For example, I see all Gods as their own beings, standing alone. Perhaps that's because I don't worship a Goddess and God exclusively. I worship them all separately.

Perhaps you should explore pantheons that are more open to your form of practice, like the open cultures. Egypt, Hellenic, Roman, Gaulish...there's loads out there!  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

Anorectic-Pandas

I don't think any gods are tied to the lands in which they were originally worshiped.

There are some that are tied to their lands that we know of from their myths and traditions. Say we're speaking of Lugh, who apparently is quite attached to his land if not under the geas of the gods of the Gael. If we discard the import of his land to him, and the myths that state that this is so, is it the same god we are considering?

Quote:

For example-
Worshiping Brighid is just directing your focus and honour to the powerful, protective, inspirational part of the female Goddess.
And if you were to worship, say Kali, you would be directing your attention to the strong, forceful, warrior side of her.

But if we are speaking of you, or another soft polytheist... if you are not going to worship this god in the way they wish to be worshipped, or if you are going to discard their myths because you don't believe they are so, why are you directing your focus in this way at all? Why not simply worship the protective side of your goddess or the forceful side of your goddess?  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

doistu

The Celts are a very small group and are only really known to themselves. The only reason I know anything about it is because I met one whilst travelling around Ireland.
They don't broadcast their path so it's pretty unknown.

Anorectic-Pandas, whilst you may follow soft polytheism (believing all Gods are part of a whole) some pantheons might not.
For example, I see all Gods as their own beings, standing alone. Perhaps that's because I don't worship a Goddess and God exclusively. I worship them all separately.

Perhaps you should explore pantheons that are more open to your form of practice, like the open cultures. Egypt, Hellenic, Roman, Gaulish...there's loads out there!

To clarify - the Gaulish culture is Celtic. The Celtic culture whose gods are under geas to accept worship only from them is the gods of the Gael, the Irish Celts. I've seen nothing and heard nothing indicating that gods of other Celtic peoples have taken similar oaths.

While all Celtic cultures seem to be closed (they're defined as "Celtic" largely linguistically, and through some similarities in traditions and culture, rather than racially, so to be a part of these cultures at the very least you'd have to speak the language if not take part in the right traditions), worship of their gods isn't necessarily.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

XxsinicalxX

So what you, Anorectic - Pandas, doistu and Brass are trying to say is that you should worship either the god, pantheons, or deities that come from your ancestry?

There are some who believe that ancestry does have an influence here. There are "folkish" Asatruar, for example, who think you have to have Germanic blood in order to be an Asatruar.

I disagree, but I do think that one's racial history may well have some influence on which gods one is called to follow, as well as the culture you're raised in, the stories your family tells etc. So you may be more likely to be drawn to gods from your ancestry. But it's not a necessity.

With the Celtic peoples, it's less about blood and more about language and participation in the culture.  

[Anorectic-Pandas]

XxsinicalxX

So what you, Anorectic - Pandas, doistu and Brass are trying to say is that you should worship either the god, pantheons, or deities that come from your ancestry?
what if you don't know them?
I mean, my ethnicity is hispanic and all i know when it comes to us is that there were many tribes in the years past, but to know from which or what gods they worship would be a b**** to find out. Especially since I dont know my other half of the family... xp

That's not what I'm saying.

I say you should believe and honour any gods that make you happy, and that is right for you.

It just so happens that the ones I worship are from my ancestry.

But I think, if you are really connected and proud of your heritage, that that would be a very good place to start.

Sanguina Cruenta

There are some that are tied to their lands that we know of from their myths and traditions. Say we're speaking of Lugh, who apparently is quite attached to his land if not under the geas of the gods of the Gael. If we discard the import of his land to him, and the myths that state that this is so, is it the same god we are considering?

Quote:
For example-
Worshiping Brighid is just directing your focus and honour to the powerful, protective, inspirational part of the female Goddess.
And if you were to worship, say Kali, you would be directing your attention to the strong, forceful, warrior side of her.


But if we are speaking of you, or another soft polytheist... if you are not going to worship this god in the way they wish to be worshipped, or if you are going to discard their myths because you don't believe they are so, why are you directing your focus in this way at all? Why not simply worship the protective side of your goddess or the forceful side of your goddess?

The way I see it, divinity is divinity.
We don't know what God/s is.
We don't know what it's name is.
We don't know how it thinks/ acts/ feel / anything for certain.

We experience things in our life, and that creates the basis for our understanding about the nature, attitude of deity.
Religion is a human institution to try to best explain what one feels that force/s is.

So, people who have different faiths are not wrong, because they believe in what best explains the world around them.

There is a truth, but no human can know it.

For me, what's out there is best represented by gods like Brighid, Cernunnos, Lugh, the Dagda, Morrigan, etc.

And if ancestry matters (which I hardly think would; I can't conceive a loving deity refusing worship outside of a specific race/ nationality, but it may have happened and I am unaware of it) then it doesn't matter for me, as I do have that background.
I am Irish, and Scotch-Irish.

And back to the whole area in which they are worshiped thing, again, I find it very unlikely that a God that loves and cares for his/her followers would reject them if they lived outside of the land where they were originally revered.

But obviously it has happened, so for this I must study and continue my learning of my faith and feelings.

Sorry about the double quote, and massive response.

 

[doistu]

Sanguina Cruenta

To clarify - the Gaulish culture is Celtic. The Celtic culture whose gods are under geas to accept worship only from them is the gods of the Gael, the Irish Celts. I've seen nothing and heard nothing indicating that gods of other Celtic peoples have taken similar oaths.

While all Celtic cultures seem to be closed (they're defined as "Celtic" largely linguistically, and through some similarities in traditions and culture, rather than racially, so to be a part of these cultures at the very least you'd have to speak the language if not take part in the right traditions), worship of their gods isn't necessarily.

My apologies. When I said Celtic I meant Gael. I just couldn't remember the word.

I had no idea Celtic was such a broad term though! So thanks for that little snippet of info!  

[Brass Bell Doll]

Anorectic-Pandas

I don't think any gods are tied to the lands in which they were originally worshiped.

Could you help me understand how you came to that conclusion?
What brought you to believe in soft polytheism? How did you decide that the legends and myths about gods that exclude soft polytheism are false?

Anorectic-Pandas

The way I see it, is there is one male God, and one female Goddess, who are completely separate, equal and powerful.
And they show themselves to different cultures differently.
And all the pantheons of the world are expressions and aspects of these two forces.

Also, they are present in all living and non-living being of nature.
Following that logic, they are everywhere, so they can be worshiped everywhere.

For example-
Worshiping Brighid is just directing your focus and honour to the powerful, protective, inspirational part of the female Goddess.
And if you were to worship, say Kali, you would be directing your attention to the strong, forceful, warrior side of her.


But, I haven't heard or read anywhere that a god or goddess has bound themselves to one land/ people.

Lore that explains the relationship between gods and their people are usually found in insular cultures. The Gael have been mentioned earlier, but also some of the Japanese practices and other cultures share these kinds of myths.

XxsinicalxX

So what you, Anorectic - Pandas, doistu and Brass are trying to say is that you should worship either the god, pantheons, or deities that come from your ancestry?

I feel there is a miscommunication here. I am not saying that at all. I am asking why someone would assume that.

Sanguina Cruenta

There are some that are tied to their lands that we know of from their myths and traditions. Say we're speaking of Lugh, who apparently is quite attached to his land if not under the geas of the gods of the Gael. If we discard the import of his land to him, and the myths that state that this is so, is it the same god we are considering?

I have heard about this geas, but never seen it produced.

Could you provide the geas itself? I hesitate to assume it exists without seeing it written.

Sanguina Cruenta

But if we are speaking of you, or another soft polytheist... if you are not going to worship this god in the way they wish to be worshipped, or if you are going to discard their myths because you don't believe they are so, why are you directing your focus in this way at all? Why not simply worship the protective side of your goddess or the forceful side of your goddess?

I feel this is a very fair question.

Anorectic-Pandas

That's not what I'm saying.

I say you should believe and honour any gods that make you happy, and that is right for you.

Would you entertain the desires of the gods as part of deciding if it is "right" for someone? Or is worship in practice only about what makes people happy?

Anorectic-Pandas

The way I see it, divinity is divinity.
We don't know what God/s is.
We don't know what it's name is.
We don't know how it thinks/ acts/ feel / anything for certain.

We experience things in our life, and that creates the basis for our understanding about the nature, attitude of deity.
Religion is a human institution to try to best explain what one feels that force/s is.

So, people who have different faiths are not wrong, because they believe in what best explains the world around them.

There is a truth, but no human can know it.

For me, what's out there is best represented by gods like Brighid, Cernunnos, Lugh, the Dagda, Morrigan, etc.

And if ancestry matters (which I hardly think would; I can't conceive a loving deity refusing worship outside of a specific race/ nationality, but it may have happened and I am unaware of it) then it doesn't matter for me, as I do have that background.
I am Irish, and Scotch-Irish.

And back to the whole area in which they are worshiped thing, again, I find it very unlikely that a God that loves and cares for his/her followers would reject them if they lived outside of the land where they were originally revered.

But obviously it has happened, so for this I must study and continue my learning of my faith and feelings.

Sorry about the double quote, and massive response.

I feel there is something worth noting here: The assumption that gods must be loving. Gods could be loving, but the only clear example of a loving god I know of- where their character and divinity is blended exclusively with being Loving, is that of the Christian God. I am not familiar with ultimate benevolence being a universal part of paganism.

Having said that, even if gods were loving, that does not mean they have to love everything equally does it?  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

doistu

My apologies. When I said Celtic I meant Gael. I just couldn't remember the word.

I had no idea Celtic was such a broad term though! So thanks for that little snippet of info!

No prob, just thought I'd clarify for those reading ^_^

Yeah! the Celtic peoples reached a LONG way across Europe at one point. The Six Celtic Nations, or something, are from Wales, Brittany in France, Isle of Man, Cornwall, Ireland and Scotland. But in Cornwall and Isle of Man the language is essentially extinct at this point. Some of the culture will survive but whether it "counts" or not will depend on what those Celtic League people say. It's their cultural identities wink

But! at one point in the past, speakers of Celtic languages reached down into Spain, across Germania and even into Turkey!

At least, according to wikipedia......  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

Anorectic-Pandas

For me, what's out there is best represented by gods like Brighid, Cernunnos, Lugh, the Dagda, Morrigan, etc.

I have never been able to understand soft polytheism, and continue to be confused wink What I don't get, really, is why people worship false representations instead of seeking the reality of their gods, through gnosis. I realise gnosis isn't for everyone but I still find it confusing.

Quote:

And if ancestry matters (which I hardly think would; I can't conceive a loving deity refusing worship outside of a specific race/ nationality

Why assume these gods are loving by nature? I'm sure they love, but why assume they'd love anyone? I don't know the gods of the Gael. They might be angry gods who only love those who really, really earn that love wink

The idea was that the gods made a vow to only accept worship from these people. There's a sense of belonging here. The gods belong to the people, and the people belong to the gods. If you're not of them, you're essentially irrelevant. That's the idea anyway. There's meant to be a bit in the cycles about it, but it doesn't concern me, and those gods don't want me, so I don't bother myself with it.

Quote:

but it may have happened and I am unaware of it) then it doesn't matter for me, as I do have that background.
I am Irish, and Scotch-Irish.

Background is apparently not so relevant. It's part of it, but not nearly as important as speaking the language and participating in the proper cultural traditions. Except for Brighid, and Lugh, who aren't under geas. Although I do hear Lugh is tied to his land. I don't know why; the person didn't elaborate and I didn't really worry myself to ask. Could have been UPG or SPG for all I know.

Quote:

And back to the whole area in which they are worshiped thing, again, I find it very unlikely that a God that loves and cares for his/her followers would reject them if they lived outside of the land where they were originally revered.

What of the follower? Why would the loving follower move to another land, knowing their god would be unable or unwilling to follow them?

As I understand it, the problem with the Irish deities is that the culture is very tied to the land, and it's hard to maintain the culture apart from it for extended periods. I think it's done, just not very often, and if you want to start practising and become a part of the culture it's essential to head to Ireland. With Shinto I've heard conflicting opinions; many of the kami tend to be a part of the land. Yet there are Shinto temples in places other than Japan. Possibly they reserve their worship for kami who are not tied to the land, or entities of the land they live in.

Quote:

But obviously it has happened, so for this I must study and continue my learning of my faith and feelings.

I don't think it happens often. Even the gods of the Wica are meant to be "the Lord and Lady of the British Isles", which suggests they are very much local gods, and indeed that's the sort of picture Gardner paints when he speaks of the Wica worshipping gods of their own land rather than, for e.g., the Greek or Egyptian deities. Yet the gods of the Wica are worshipped from all over the world.

Quote:

Sorry about the double quote, and massive response.

I like multi quotes, it makes it easier for me to follow the conversation ^_^  

[oOGarrettOo]

I wasn't looking at all when my goddess found me. In fact, I was broadcasting that I didn't really want anyone at all, for many reasons, but she came out of nowhere and spoke to me and we came to quite a few agreements. I know it sounds odd that any deity would compromise with their follower, I thought the same thing while it was happening, but it's worked out so far so I'm not overly concerned about it.

However, if you want real proof that ancestry doesn't always have anything to do with it, I'm very, very European (at least, heritage wise) and instead of being approached by someone from the Roman pantheon or the Norse gods and such, I'm scooped up by a goddess from India. I have family members from India, which I think might be part of how she found me, but I'm not Indian at all, lol.

Quite the trip.  

[kage no neko]

Anorectic-Pandas

The way I see it, divinity is divinity.
We don't know what God/s is.
We don't know what it's name is.
We don't know how it thinks/ acts/ feel / anything for certain.

I just wanted to comment on this part. I know what his/her name is, because I asked. I wasn't told that they're the great god or goddess, I was told specific names along with their images. I had read so many things about "well how can I find out who they are" and reading the responses of "why don't you ask?" that it's the first thing I did, and they didn't hesitate in telling me.
And I certainly don't know any of this for certain. I'm left thinking that I've lost my mind. xd

One thing I don't understand about soft polytheism.. if you worship a God and Goddess as THE God and Goddess, that all else are just aspects.. then why do they need to be referred to by names? Especially if those names just show one sense of what they truly are.  

[doistu]

Sanguina Cruenta

Yeah! the Celtic peoples reached a LONG way across Europe at one point. The Six Celtic Nations, or something, are from Wales, Brittany in France, Isle of Man, Cornwall, Ireland and Scotland.

Wowza! That's flipping amazing. Thanks haha!