Am I Fluffy?

[Brass Bell Doll]

Musical_Vampire_Socks

I don't think I have the mental capacity to develop a theory as to how the whole world works so I can only guess from personal experience so their are going to be things I don't know about the world that are "unseen and unknown".

Do you feel Karma acts upon these things?  

[Brass Bell Doll]

Musical_Vampire_Socks

When times get hard and bad things happen to me I hold out because in my life I believe that good will come good will happen eventually maybe big maybe small but It will happen and that gives me something to hold onto.

Do you feel that optimism has to be a part of faith?

Musical_Vampire_Socks

As for the pebbles that is where the things unseen and unknown come in. And yes I believe karma acts upon this unknowns and unseen things and that I can only really guess about how they interact.

I am interested in hearing your guesses.

I would also like to understand how you view Karma.

Musical_Vampire_Socks

note: My believe system comes from personal experience its not going to work for everyone. My religion is what I have made of it. Everyone's life is different.

I feel it is important that a belief system be as free from contradictions as possible, and sometimes that means asking uncomfortable questions and answering them or changing the beliefs. It is the ability to examine openly and honestly what we believe that makes a person not a fluffy by the reasoning provided earlier.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

Musical_Vampire_Socks

No

Is that something you may be able to revise then?

Musical_Vampire_Socks

You have already heard some of my guesses as to how the world works.

Karma to me means if you do bad things bad things will happen to you and if you do good things good things will happen to you.

That is an interesting way of looking at things.
Would that mean that good and bad are dependent on intention? If so, then how did the first "bad" come into the world? At some point humans were primitive to the point where rational intention couldn't be formed, and there would have had to have been a first "bad" action to be done by someone who could not understand good and bad- correct?

I am also curious. Where did you first learn this concept of Karma?

Musical_Vampire_Socks

I believe I have the ability to examine my own beliefs openly and honestly but are you also saying that if I don't change my point of view to be more like someone that believes differently and that they are defiantly right and I'm defiantly wrong which might not be true because it can't be proven then I'm a fluffy bunny pagan. Just asking...

If it can be proven that they are correct and someone willfully ignores their position, that would make the person a fluffy bunny by the definition I see used in this guild.

For example, when the word Karma is used, if it could be proven that there is a misuse, but the word continues to be applied incorrectly, that would be fluffy, wouldn't it?  

[aoijea23487]

Musical_Vampire_Socks

Illiezeulette

Quote:

I admit I'm not Wicca and I will not consider myself Wicca unless I joined a coven that ever considered it self Wicca and followed gardeners belief system.

What makes you think this?

I kind of feel like being wiccan is still being a pagan but I different type of pagan then I am now and that I have not gone throw any process to qualify for the title or to consider myself that kind of pagan. I know some people might think differently.
Anyway what is your point of view on it?

Very personally, I think that labels are relative to their users. I have a very, um, anarchistic approach to spirituality and my personal views would most likely not be welcome in this particular guild. Some people believe that words have power objectively, but to me, words have power relative to the person using them/hearing them. So, some people think that Wicca has some sort of objective, "true" meaning, whereas I do not.

For instance, people generally see a pencil as a writing instrument. They call it "pencil." Maybe I see a pencil as a writing instrument AND a weapon that I can stab people with. I call it "pencil." However, most would define a pencil as a writing instrument, and I would define it as something for writing and stabbing. However, I might invent a new word for it, like "pencilator." This is a sign of distinguishing my perception from the norm, like Wicca-->British Traditional Wicca.

In other words, I think dictionaries are only useful if you want to create a standard language that everyone can understand by using set definitions. I call that "Standard English." Sometimes I speak Standard English, but for my own use, I have my own definitions for words. Wicca is a word I find hard to define objectively, and my own definition is still in the works.

In other words, I accept the definitions given by others for purposes of person-to-person communication for the sake of practicality, but I do not think those definitions are somehow fused to the nature of the thing being defined.

So, Wicca as defined by the email list Amber and Jet is what other people call British Traditional Wicca or Wica. A lot of people on the list think that is the objective, true definition of Wicca. Lineaged folks like Deborah Lipp don't agree with the Amber and Jet stance, and instead expand the definition to incorporate non-lineaged practitioners and solitaries as long as they work within a certain framework, which she defines. Some people think Wicca is anything you make it, and there is no true set definition or framework to follow.

If you go to Amber and Jet's website, they will define Wicca as they use it:

Quote:

For the purposes of the Amber and Jet list, the term "Wicca" refers specifically to the lineaged, initiatory mystery religion with roots in the New Forest region of Great Britain, manifested today through various "traditions" all linked with a common ancestry back to the New Forest area. "Wiccans" or "The Wica" are the properly lineaged, properly initiated members of those Traditions.

(My emphasis on the bolded.)
According to Amber and Jet's definition, I am definitely not Wiccan.
According to Deborah Lipp's definition, I definitely AM Wiccan.
Since I don't really attach myself to words and the definitions given to them by others, I generally don't care if other people consider me Wiccan or not or even if I consider myself Wiccan or not. I just believe what I believe. You can call it what you want.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

Musical_Vampire_Socks

huh?

If it is a personal preference and not a religious truth, wouldn't it be better to not try and turn it into something it is not?

Musical_Vampire_Socks

If I understand you right then no anyway I said early that bad and good are grey areas...

I am afraid that doesn't address my question. Even if there is a spectrum that still has values for good and bad, at what point did bad or good enter the world?

Musical_Vampire_Socks

From:

"Before You Cast A Spell" by Carl McColman
(Also my parents explained it to the way I described early to you when I first asked them what it was)

"Karma is the principle that everything you send out will, sooner or later, come back to you. If your actions or thoughts are based in a spirit of blessings, generosity and helpfulness, you can expect similar blessings to come to you (if not in this lifetime, then eventually). By the same token, if you send out hatred, envy, spite, harm, violence, or other negative thoughts, words and deeds, at some point you will have similare energies aimed at you." pg. 60

May I ask what he sites as his source for this definition?

Musical_Vampire_Socks

Yes, I guess...are you suggesting that I am using karma or balance the wrong way? is that what you are trying to get at?

I am exploring a number of things in steps to avoid miscommunication.  

[Ray Relo Nikiv]

the way i veiw balance is that of yin and yang if something good happens in your life it means something bad is going to happen somewhere down that road called life and vice versa

(on a side note if this is true it means a lot of good things are headed my way in the future) becuase even though my life has been a lkiving nightmare i still hold the belief that in time my life will have something good happen  

[Brass Bell Doll]

Raygnar Havon

the way i veiw balance is that of yin and yang if something good happens in your life it means something bad is going to happen somewhere down that road called life and vice versa

(on a side note if this is true it means a lot of good things are headed my way in the future) becuase even though my life has been a lkiving nightmare i still hold the belief that in time my life will have something good happen

Greetings Ray!

Would you be able to explain where you learned about yin yang?  

[Ray Relo Nikiv]

well I have done some studies a while back from numrous sources that its hard fopr me to remember but the one thing i do remember is that Yin and Yang are balanced between each other for that fact you can never have to much bad with their being some good in their (Yang) and the same with Yin there will alwys be a balance of something such as fire and water light and dark
to much of one can block out the other but the same is true for the other (To much fire will evaporate the water before it can touch it or to much water and it will extinguish the flames its a universal theme I have come to adore and tend to seek out the balance of most things in life right now my observations are small things such as the fire and water scenario) but thats as far as my studies have gone as of now  

[CuAnnan]

Raygnar Havon

the way i veiw balance is that of yin and yang if something good happens in your life it means something bad is going to happen somewhere down that road called life and vice versa

Why?  

[Ray Relo Nikiv]

becuase thats how the universe goes about balancing everything out if something good happens something bad has to happen as well but sometimes it does this by making one persons life miserable while making anothers good or near great and these things are usually small like finding a 100 dollars on the ground and some one else losing a 100 dollars in some way (who knows)  

[Brass Bell Doll]

Raygnar Havon

well I have done some studies a while back from numrous sources that its hard fopr me to remember but the one thing i do remember is that Yin and Yang are balanced between each other for that fact you can never have to much bad with their being some good in their (Yang) and the same with Yin there will alwys be a balance of something such as fire and water light and dark

I'm sorry, but I'm somewhat confused, could you try and list some texts for me? The origin of yin yang has roots in Taoist philosophy, but to apply a moral value like good and bad is decidedly not Taoist.

Raygnar Havon

to much of one can block out the other but the same is true for the other (To much fire will evaporate the water before it can touch it or to much water and it will extinguish the flames its a universal theme I have come to adore and tend to seek out the balance of most things in life right now my observations are small things such as the fire and water scenario) but thats as far as my studies have gone as of now

Is there a possibility that the polarity you're discussing is in too high a contrast? An example may be boiling water. It is hot, thus yang. It is wet, thus yin.
Does that make sense?  

[Ray Relo Nikiv]

sorry i sometimes contradict my self with out knowingly doing so but i am not trying to put morality to it more like my last statement say you get promoted in your job some one somewhere gets fired I am thinking on the universal level of yin and Yang i understand the taoist form but I see more to it than the form of tao

http://fly.cc.fer.hr/~shlede/ying/yang.html

edit:
In fact let me more or less rephrase what i am saying about this. its not that I particularly believe in Yin yang its more the universal balance of opposing energy in the world fire:water, Light:dark, hot:cold, Yin:Yang. I use the term yin and yang loosely to convey a balance between two opposing energies such as Fire and water these two elements oppose each other on many levels Fire is hot wild uncontrolled and in some cases the bringer of death while water is cold soothing calm and a giver of life but the true is for both to suddenly switch positions water can be just as destructive as fire and fire can also bring about new life (ie after volcano erupts and the lava cools the new hardened rock could become a new ground layer for plants to strive off of or when farmers burn their fields to put nutrients back in the ground to help grow new crops each year)

that is what i mean by what i was saying i just use Yin and Yang do to its fundamental meaning for these opposing powers